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Firearms and Shooting

Posted by Bugout Bill 
Re: Firearms and Shooting
January 01, 2020 09:23AM
Quote
chad234
Looks like Ruger has a 5.7 hitting the market- hope they sell a ton and bring 5.7 ammo availability up and cost down.

[www.americanrifleman.org]

Thoughts?

That looks pretty interesting, I gotta say. Never would’ve guessed that they’d have come out with something like that.

I’m not super enthusiastic about the 5.7 as a defensive round, though it’ll definitely do the job, but I do think that that Ruger-57, if it’s not $1,000+, has a lot of potential as a great lightweight camping gun. 20 rounds of .22 WMR-type power, that’s plenty to get a few rabbits or squirrels for the camp stewpot, or scare off a black bear or a meth-head.

I’m usually not super impressed with Ruger’s auto pistols, but hopefully it’s a good one.
me2
Re: Firearms and Shooting
January 01, 2020 05:45PM
Searched prices for the 57. Its about the same price as a Glock 19 or 17 optic ready model, $599 to $650.

The Henry was something I've wanted to try for a while. I wanted something that would cycle the Quiet and Colibri rounds. The noise of shooting bothers my daughter, but those she can probably handle. Plus she likes the older style stuff, like single action revolvers and lever actions.

The Ruger American Rimfire was also on sale and would have been a good option, but it won't cycle 22 Short. It's an interesting option for my long range 22 project though. I was looking into a Marlin XT22, but this is a competitive option.
Re: Firearms and Shooting
January 01, 2020 06:16PM
If you’re looking for a great .22 bolt gun, I love my CZ 457. Nice wood, glass smooth bolt, crisp trigger. Great balance. Swap out to wmr or 17.

My other bolt gun is a decades old Marlin 25- many bricks of ammo through it. Still quite accurate.
me2
Re: Firearms and Shooting
January 01, 2020 07:36PM
Yea I was looking at a bolt gun for this crazy idea I had about putting together a 22 set up to shoot to 200 and 300 yards. My semiautomatic Marlins won't handle the
Velocitor and Interceptor rounds I'd likely end up using.

The CZ rifles are an option I hadn't considered. I've been focusing on the Marlin since I know how accurate my others are. The Ruger American series is regarded as pretty accurate too. The Marlin and Ruger are also available locally for less than $200.
me2
Re: Firearms and Shooting
January 01, 2020 07:38PM
Anyone know where to find information on rimfire sihouette competitions? Are they even still held?
Re: Firearms and Shooting
January 02, 2020 10:44AM
If you want the most accuracy for your money, then a Savage MkII would be the way to go. As long as the crown is clean and you’re diligent about how you set up the scope mounts and the torque settings on the action screws, they’re as accurate as anything else.

The FV-SR I chose is a good option, the standard FV is another good one, and their laminate stocked models are even better because the stock is stiffer and has a higher comb.

The MkII along with the CZ rimfires and the Ruger Precision Rimfire (the chassis stock version of the American) are probably your best bet for a tack-driving factory gun. Another excellent option is the Tikka T1x, these are newer rifles but reports so far are very positive. Sub-MOA.

If you want an affordable rifle that’s as accurate as the most expensive full-custom rifles costing upwards of $2,000 then the way to go would be to have Scott do his accurizing package on the Savage of your choice:

[www.savagegunsmithing.com]

The cost of an accurized MkII BV (laminate bull barrel) would come in at around $500 not including the scope and mounts, and it will out-shoot 99.9% of other rifles on the range.
Re: Firearms and Shooting
January 02, 2020 05:27PM
You might also consider buying a pre-owned Remington 541 and 581, or Winchester 75 from some while back since you can't wear out a rimfire and they were all excellent.
Re: Firearms and Shooting
January 02, 2020 06:12PM
Ryan- does your recent post re- velocity, low onset hydrostatic shock (drunken reaction effect) impact your view of the .40 vs .357 Sig debate?
Re: Firearms and Shooting
January 02, 2020 07:01PM
Quote
chad234
Ryan- does your recent post re- velocity, low onset hydrostatic shock (drunken reaction effect) impact your view of the .40 vs .357 Sig debate?

To some degree, yes it does. A lot of the PD’s using the .357 Sig have had very positive impressions of it and after reading the book I can see why.

The actual wounding of the .357 Sig is not any greater than a decent .40 load however, because you’re giving up diameter and weight for additional speed. The Sig is less consistent in terms of penetration and wound diameter as well, which is why I’d probably rather just get a 10mm.

With the 10mm I’m not loosing any weight or diameter, I’m just gaining about 300 FPS in speed.

It’s the exact same set of principles that Nathan argued when I was looking for a rifle cartridge with a notable increase in power over the .308:

- Keep bullet weight the same and increase speed by at least 300 or more FPS, getting the muzzle velocities up over 3,000 FPS, or keep speed the same and increase bullet weight and diameter.

I settled on the 7mm Rem Mag because the typical weights of 154 to 162 grains is very similar to the .308 but they’re leaving the barrel at anywhere from 3,070 to 3,200 FPS as opposed to 2,600 to 2,800 from the .308 and they also generally have higher BC’s so they’re gonna hold that speed for longer as well. The Rem Mag hits hard in close and performance out at 300 yards is similar to the .308 at 75 yards.
me2
Re: Firearms and Shooting
January 02, 2020 09:29PM
I just took my Tech Sighted Marlin 60 apart to clean it and found a bent recoil spring guide rod. That would certainly account for the roughness I felt when cycling the action. Any idea how it happened? I didn't notice it before, and I've had it down to this level to clean it a few times. Its possible I missed it in the past.
Re: Firearms and Shooting
January 02, 2020 09:45PM
Me2, I’m not quite sure how that might have happened, but I have a hard time imagining that it would happen internally while the gun is being fired. Not saying it couldn’t happen that way, but I think it’s more likely that it would have happened during cleaning and reassembly or it’s been like that the whole time, Marlin sent it out like that.

Either way though, it can be really tricky to bend the rod back straight, so if you try to straighten it and it doesn’t work out after a few tries, it might be a good idea to simply get a new one from Midwest Gun Works, they’re my go-to for factory parts:


[www.midwestgunworks.com]
Re: Firearms and Shooting
January 02, 2020 10:51PM
It’s also possible that there was a minor bend in it initially and it got gradually worse as rounds were cycled through the action. But I don’t think it’s too likely because it seems to me that there’s not enough force getting put on that rod from a mere .22LR, especially if the rod is heat treated in some way.
me2
Re: Firearms and Shooting
January 03, 2020 04:46AM
I'm going to go with it having been this way and I didn't notice. The other Marlin 60 with the scope has been shot more and cleaned more. This rifle kind of sat around while I was setting up the scope on the other one. It's fairly slight. It still fits into the spring. I'd like to think I'd notice something like this, but who knows. I'll probably just get a new one rather than try to straighten this one.
Re: Firearms and Shooting
January 03, 2020 08:56AM
Quote
me2
I'm going to go with it having been this way and I didn't notice.... I'd like to think I'd notice something like this, but who knows...

Yeah, that makes sense. Similar stuff has happened to me a few times with guns and other tools, too. No worries. Smallish details often aren’t noticed right away because the person doesn’t have enough experience with the specific item to notice. Only later on, after the person really starts to know what they’re looking at, is when they might notice.
me2
Re: Firearms and Shooting
January 04, 2020 05:44PM
Ok, so I went ahead and straightened it. If its heat treated, it's got about a 1100 degree temper after hardening. I made some wood liners for my vice and locked it in there and it straightened right out. I may still order a couple of spares and spare recoil springs. I took it to the range to try it out today and it worked fine.

I also sighted in the Nikon Rimfire scope. I upgraded from the Simmons that was on the other Marlin 60. As long as it holds zero, I think I'll like it a lot. It turned out 3/8" groups regularly at 25 yards. The BDC is intended for a 50 yard zero, but I had no idea where it would go so I started here. Turns out it only took about 2 clicks right and up 2.5 inches and it was dead on. If I have one gripe about this scope is the turrets adjust 1/4" per click at 50 yards instead of 100, but I think that's probably standard for rimfire scopes. That's still only 1/8" at 25, so it dialed right in.

It took some effort with a mallet and brass punch but I got the Henry sighted in for 25 yards too. I'm going to leave it with just the iron sights for now, though I may eventually put the Simmons on it I pulled off the Marlin. One thing I didn't mention above is the Simmons scope is noticeably lighter than the Nikon. The Nikon would mess the balance up on the Henry. Even with the iron sights 4 of the last 6 shots went in the red bullseye and all 6 were in the 10 ring. The sights are not like on my Marlin lever action. They look like pistol sights, with a notch at the rear sight and a square topped blade at the front. Until I get used to the Marlin sights, I think I like these better.

I got to pattern my grandfathers old 20 gage single shot too. You'd think when you first hold it up the pattern would be high. However at 30 feet it's about an inch low, just eyeballing it. It has a fair bit of kick, but not bad. I don't know how old it is, but it may be older than me by a fair margin. I grew up at my grand parent's house and as long as I remember it was by the door. It's has a full choke, exposed hammer, and ejects empty shells with authority. The furniture is still tight, there's a little rust on the barrel at the breech, and a spot of rust inside the bore that I can't brush out. For a shotgun it seems inconsequential. It was made in Brazil by Companhia Brazileira de Cartuchos.
Re: Firearms and Shooting
January 04, 2020 10:18PM
Quote
chad234
Looks like Ruger has a 5.7 hitting the market- hope they sell a ton and bring 5.7 ammo availability up and cost down.

[www.americanrifleman.org]

Thoughts?

I want one. I think this would be great for target shooting at 100 or more yards. Need to figure out the right optic for that.


Chumgeyser on Youtube
E-nep throwing Brotherhood. Charter Member
Re: Firearms and Shooting
January 06, 2020 07:35PM
I’m hesitant to go through the hassle of getting a suppressor for the .22 because of this:

The idea of jumping through the requisite hoops and writing a big check in order to beg permission from mommy government to please be allowed to purchase something, well, I find that so unbelievably repulsive that I just don’t know if it’s worth doing.

I just can’t seem to bring myself to stoop so low as to beg and bribe and kiss ring in that way. I have a hard enough time resisting the urge to wipe my butt with the Federal and State forms before burning them and peeing on the ashes when I’m buying guns.

A suppressor isn’t worth that to me, at the moment. Maybe at some point in the future I’ll think and feel differently about it, but at the moment I’d rather just not have the suppressor.
me2
Re: Firearms and Shooting
January 07, 2020 11:22AM
For a 22 it's not really worth it to me either. That was the reason for the manual action 22, to be able to use Quiet rounds and similar. Were I a hunter, I'd dearly appreciate a suppressor on a 30 06 or 308 I'd be firing in the field likely without hearing protection. I agree about the paperwork involved.
Re: Firearms and Shooting
January 07, 2020 03:42PM
Me2, the really amazing thing is that here in America, the land of a billion guns and stuff, suppressors are treated by the government as some kind of scary and potentially dangerous thing that requires permission and extra money to own. But then you look at the UK, the land where kitchen knives are currently considered a terrible danger to society, and they actually have the sense to realize that suppressors simply reduce noise and that’s it, it’s just less disruptive to neighbors and shooters, so it’s very easy for people to get them. You’d think it would be the opposite.

And yeah on a centerfire hunting rifle it would be nice, my 7mm Rem Mag left one of my ears ringing for a minute or two when I shot that deer this year. They do potentially cause major problems inside the barrel though, trapping carbon and moisture that can dramatically increase chamber pressure if it’s not cleaned properly. And obviously the carbon and moisture will also cause corrosion faster if it’s not removed quickly.
Re: Firearms and Shooting
January 07, 2020 04:13PM
Ryan,
It's because of the progressive push during the NFA, where they tried to ban nearly everything in the USA. No one thought to fight for suppressors or wanted to at the time, suppressors are a political casualty, same with full auto.

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"Gotta love living in 2019 baby, (63rc too soft on a production knife)"
--Shawn Houston

"I am still discussing issues of steels and performance at this stage."
--Cliff Stamp

"Cause geometry cuts, .....steel determines the level and the duration"
--Roman Landes

"But in general, I'm all about high performance, Ergos, safety. That's why I've been accused of 'designing in the dark' "
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StoneSharpEdges
Re: Firearms and Shooting
January 08, 2020 11:33PM
Quote
Ryan Nafe
I’m hesitant to go through the hassle of getting a suppressor for the .22 because of this:

The idea of jumping through the requisite hoops and writing a big check in order to beg permission from mommy government to please be allowed to purchase something, well, I find that so unbelievably repulsive that I just don’t know if it’s worth doing.

I just can’t seem to bring myself to stoop so low as to beg and bribe and kiss ring in that way. I have a hard enough time resisting the urge to wipe my butt with the Federal and State forms before burning them and peeing on the ashes when I’m buying guns.

A suppressor isn’t worth that to me, at the moment. Maybe at some point in the future I’ll think and feel differently about it, but at the moment I’d rather just not have the suppressor.

Well said sir, well said.


Chumgeyser on Youtube
E-nep throwing Brotherhood. Charter Member
Re: Firearms and Shooting
January 09, 2020 11:38AM
Quote
Chum
Well said sir, well said.

Once I realized that the people in both the state and federal governments are absolutely nothing other than ordinary people like myself and everyone else, a lot of my perspectives changed.

Who are any of those people to tell me what I can and can’t do? For all I know they’re both dumber and more emotionally volatile than me, not to mention corrupted by their power, and they’re trying to tell me how to live my life? Seriously?

And if those authoritarian losers have set up the game in a way that I find repulsive, then I simply refuse to play the game at all. I take my ball and go home, rather than try to convince them that their game should have different rules.

I used to spend energy trying to get them to change the game, but after doing that for a while I’ve realized that I’m much happier if I simply don’t play games that I don’t enjoy playing. And this holds true across the board: Video games, relationships, government policies, workplace scenarios, EVERYTHING. If I don’t like the game in a significant way, then screw it, I’ll find a game I enjoy instead.
Re: Firearms and Shooting
January 10, 2020 08:43AM
Ryan, eventually it becomes impossible to avoid the politics game. You could become a hermit I suppose, even there the government will probably find you and make you conform to their rules.

In other words, you should vote.


Chumgeyser on Youtube
E-nep throwing Brotherhood. Charter Member
Re: Firearms and Shooting
January 10, 2020 09:31AM
Quote
Chum
Ryan, eventually it becomes impossible to avoid the politics game. You could become a hermit I suppose, even there the government will probably find you and make you conform to their rules.

In other words, you should vote.

Oh I vote and pay some attention to what’s going on on a local and national level, don’t get me wrong. But that’s about the extent of it, I try to stay reasonably well-informed and vote when I can. Philosophically and practically I just don’t see the point in doing more than that right now. “Activism” and stuff like that is riddled with traps.

On another note, I’ve actually considered running for mayor of my town because I’m pretty confident that if I plan things correctly I could actually get elected. It would be something interesting to do, but I have no idea what I’d actually do while in office. And maybe I’d be too incompetent to get anything done, who knows, but it’d sure be a fun thing to try. “Hey dude, remember that time I was mayor of River Falls? That was so awesome, dude.” spinning smiley sticking its tongue out
Re: Firearms and Shooting
January 11, 2020 08:33AM
Anyone tried Winchester .22lr of various kinds?
sal
Re: Firearms and Shooting
January 11, 2020 01:50PM
Any opinions on the fairy new Sig p365 SAS?

sal
me2
Re: Firearms and Shooting
January 11, 2020 08:13PM
I can't say I've used the Winchester 22 ammo. I have used other Winchester ammo and it was good, just not their rimfire. 40 S&W, 9mm, 30-30, and 2.75" rifles slugs were all good.

Sorry I can't speak to the P365 either, other than to say it's very popular based on the talk I've heard, particularly in a Tennessee gun shop I stopped in yesterday to take a driving break. I'm strictly a S&W guy w/r to pistols for now. I had to give my brothers P94 back. I don't think I have ever shot a SIG gun. My buddy in LE work swears by the brand.
me2
Re: Firearms and Shooting
January 12, 2020 06:15AM
Any opinions on a fixed 6x scope for shooting out to 600 yards vs a variable 2-7 or 3-9?
Re: Firearms and Shooting
January 12, 2020 09:12AM
Quote
me2
Any opinions on a fixed 6x scope for shooting out to 600 yards vs a variable 2-7 or 3-9?

It’d depend mostly on the size of the targets you’re trying to hit. Shots out to 600 yards will be roughly the same as making a 100 yard shot with a 1x scope. So it’s certainly doable, no doubt, but more magnification might be helpful.

If you’re using it on the range and/or have to simply connect with a man-sized target in some way, I’d say go for it. You don’t need 15x zoom to make hits on targets like that, 6x would be perfectly adequate.

If you’re hunting animals, where you need to be able to consistently hit a much smaller target area, then I would limit the 6x scope to about 400 yards for stuff like deer or coyotes. This would make the 400 yard shots seem like 67 yard shots on 1x, a much more reliably achievable feat.



One thing you might really wanna consider:

If you set the MPBR as being 3” high at 100 yards and then 3” low at wherever that happens, you’ll likely find that almost any cartridge will fall well within the useful hunting range of a 6x scope. So for a hunting setup where you wanna set-it-and-forget-it, no dialing or iffy holdover, simply aim and shoot out to the cartridge’s MPBR, a fixed 6x will be a very very solid choice for that. It’ll be tough to use quickly inside 50 yards or so, but it will also be very adequate out at the 300 yards that’s near the outer limits of the MPBR.

I believe Leupold still makes 2 different 6x scopes, a 6x36mm and a 6x42mm, both should be pretty decent tools.
Re: Firearms and Shooting
January 12, 2020 02:49PM
I've always found the use of quality zooms to add value. Particularly when testing on targets to reduce aiming errors. And once you've done that you can spin it back to hunting preferences which on fast movers and thick bush might only be 1-3 power. More testing required?...zoom to max again and no scope changing required. Have 2-7x on a 338 but 3-9x or 3.5 to 14x on 308/243
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