Welcome! Log In Create A New Profile

Advanced

Firearms and Shooting

Posted by Bugout Bill 
Re: Firearms and Shooting
August 30, 2019 08:47AM
It's labeled as the Cheetah.


Chumgeyser on Youtube
E-nep throwing Brotherhood. Charter Member
Re: Firearms and Shooting
August 30, 2019 12:15PM
Chad, have you settled on preferred sights for carry guns?

Everyone, where are you guys on the 6.5 Creedmore?


Chumgeyser on Youtube
E-nep throwing Brotherhood. Charter Member
Re: Firearms and Shooting
August 30, 2019 07:21PM
Still using a mix of Trijicon, ameriglo, TFX. I think my favorites are the Sig bold sights on my Legion 220 and P365.

6.5cm- don’t have one. But will at some point. On paper and by report, great round in same class as .308. Less drop, better wind bucking. But .308 is far more readily, less expensive, bit better close range punch. 6.5 has less recoil, but barrel life seems to be shortened.

It was actually shopping for a 6.6CM or Grendel that lead to buy the POF SPR .224 Valkyrie. External (flight) ballistics are similar to 6.5CM, but obviously less impressive terminal ballistics. But it is a light, well balanced rifle and the calculated recoil impulse is much lower. I’ve got ammo on order and need to select an optic.

Really nice engineering and machine work. Especially the BCG.



Re: Firearms and Shooting
August 30, 2019 07:26PM
224V playlist

[youtu.be]

[youtu.be]

[youtu.be]

[youtu.be]
Re: Firearms and Shooting
August 31, 2019 07:55PM
For the time being, I decided to mount this scope on the POF Valkyrie:
[www.leupold.com]

If I can find the time to get into longer range shooting that will justify a higher magnification and optical clarity, then this 3-9 can get switched out to my SOCOM 16 or one of my other rifles. I ordered a Midwest QD mount to facilitate that.
Re: Firearms and Shooting
August 31, 2019 09:29PM
Chum,
Yeah, I was confused because MAC had both of them in the video. I shot a 1935. I have handled the Cheetah, but haven't shot one. I didn't even know they made one in .32 ACP.

"I am still discussing issues of steels and performance at this stage."
--Cliff Stamp

"Cause geometry cuts, .....steel determines the level and the duration"
--Roman Landes

"But in general, I'm all about high performance, Ergos, safety. That's why I've been accused of 'designing in the dark' "
--Sal Glesser
Re: Firearms and Shooting
September 01, 2019 08:15AM
Chad, I looked at the 224 valkyrie. It looks great ballistics wise. Considering how little I care for recoil it seems like a good option for me for a long range shooter... the one you have looks sick btw. The 224 valkyrie makes sense in that it should be a faster gun for short to mid range follow up shots than the 6.5 Creedmoor, but better than the 223/5.56 at long range.

Lack of readily available ammo is somewhat of an issue. I went into my local Bi-Mart recently (where I usually buy my ammo.) No 224 valkyrie. They did have a lot of 6.5 creedmoor. They actually had more 6.5 creedmoor than they had 308, and get this, the 6.5 creedmoor was cheaper than the 308. They also had more 6.5 creedmoor rifles for sale. Thompson/TC, Ruger and Savage bolt guns were all available in 6.5 creedmoor. Cheap too. The Thompson was only $260 and the Ruger was only $360.

6.5 creedmoor should be a better deer and elk gun than the 224 valkyrie due to the significantly heavier bullets, and it does post higher energy numbers than the 224 valkyrie across the board.

6.5 creedmoor is based on the 6.5 swedish, which I have been shooting for decades now, although not often. That has seemed like a very accurate round to me.

I think if/when I put together a long range platform it will be a bolt gun in 6.5 creedmoor.

This all being said, I picked up my Beretta 81 at my favorite gun store yesterday, and I couldn't stop looking at handguns. My interest in getting a new long range gun quickly devolved into getting a new hand gun smiling smiley

Looking into the 32acp led me down the 32 rabbit hole. I dry fired a Ruger LCR and was instantly in love with the trigger. This was a 38 mag model. I had to talk myself out of ordering a Ruger LCR in 327 federal. Four, possibly five ammo types ranging from bullets that shouldn't kick much more than a 22mag all the way up to ammo that is only slightly less powerful than a 357 magnum, and everything in between. Six round capacity instead of five. Fits my hand perfectly... aww shit I'm going to order another gun.


Chumgeyser on Youtube
E-nep throwing Brotherhood. Charter Member
Re: Firearms and Shooting
September 01, 2019 08:25AM
Quote
jasonstone20
Chum,
Yeah, I was confused because MAC had both of them in the video. I shot a 1935. I have handled the Cheetah, but haven't shot one. I didn't even know they made one in .32 ACP.

I bought mine from Classic Firearms. It is the same as MACs. It is only labeled as a model 81 on the gun itself. There are a few scratches and dings but nothing that bothers me. The barrel looks new. I think they put a new guide rod and spring in it. The trigger feels excellent. I can't wait to shoot it, unfortunately my schedule changed and I won't be able to go shooting until tomorrow.


Chumgeyser on Youtube
E-nep throwing Brotherhood. Charter Member
Re: Firearms and Shooting
September 01, 2019 08:28AM
Quote
chad234
Still using a mix of Trijicon, ameriglo, TFX. I think my favorites are the Sig bold sights on my Legion 220 and P365.

Are the bold sights you are referring to the Ameriglo?


Chumgeyser on Youtube
E-nep throwing Brotherhood. Charter Member
Re: Firearms and Shooting
September 01, 2019 09:16AM
Cool video on the Ruger lcr...

[youtu.be]


Chumgeyser on Youtube
E-nep throwing Brotherhood. Charter Member
Re: Firearms and Shooting
September 01, 2019 10:47AM
Chum,
Yeah, I held the .380 ACP model. Browning used to have the same gun in .380 ACP just branded Browning. I only handled the Cheetah, and I think it is the perfect carry size gun, the grip fit my and like a glove. It would be awesome if they made the same gun in 9mm, just because it is large for a .32 ACP/.380 ACP in my opinion. .32 ACP and .380 ACP are very under rated calibers for self-defense, especially with either ball or modern hollow point loads.

"I am still discussing issues of steels and performance at this stage."
--Cliff Stamp

"Cause geometry cuts, .....steel determines the level and the duration"
--Roman Landes

"But in general, I'm all about high performance, Ergos, safety. That's why I've been accused of 'designing in the dark' "
--Sal Glesser
Re: Firearms and Shooting
September 02, 2019 05:01AM
Chum- I’m familiar with the Ameriglo Bold- I ordered them on my G45- good sights. Sig makes (or brands)their own- similar design.

Jason- I sure wouldn’t want to be shot with either! My most carried gun is a .380, but I admit there is still some wisdom in the NRA standard training line “the biggest you can comfortably shoot”

Agree that with .32, FMJ is actually a good carry option as a fast expanding hollow point (if it worked at those low velocities) may not give adequate penetration.

I think this may have been posted before, an interesting perspective:
[youtu.be]

On the other hand, while I have never seen his raw data and it’s been years since I read his book, Evan Marshall was a homicide investigator during Detroit’s tragic years as Murder City, with the highest murder rates in the nation. He studied handgun caliber efficacy. Granted most of his data would have been collected before modern bullet design. I recall.357 was at the top of his list, and he personally carries a .45 (S&W Shield currently).

Data on number of shots to determine efficacy (immediate incapacity) is skewed by a factor- law enforcement and well trained civilians are taught to fire at the attacker “until the threat has stopped.” Standard LEO training is to fire multiple shots, rapidly. Rapid fire becomes the trained instinct. So when we add in human factors, officers are trained to shoot at an attacker until they perceive the threat has stopped and tell themselves to stop shooting and perform that action.
it is not at all surprising to see 2-3 shots have been fired- the old rule of three- 3 shots, 3 feet, 3 seconds.

Many Studies looking single shots are confounded by different shot placement or over inclusion- to “upper body” or “chest” (Would include a grazing shot to the ribs) vs CNS or vital organs (heart & lungs). What made Evan Marshall’s perspective interesting was that he had access to direct reports, mass statistical data and forensic pathology and medical data.

A good primer on “stopping power” was the post Miami FBI:
[gundata.org]
Re: Firearms and Shooting
September 02, 2019 06:54PM
chad234,
Good stuff, thanks for the links!

"I am still discussing issues of steels and performance at this stage."
--Cliff Stamp

"Cause geometry cuts, .....steel determines the level and the duration"
--Roman Landes

"But in general, I'm all about high performance, Ergos, safety. That's why I've been accused of 'designing in the dark' "
--Sal Glesser
me2
Re: Firearms and Shooting
September 02, 2019 07:27PM
Tore down my 336 today. That thing was in need of it. I found some metal shavings between the magazine tube and barrel. They were probably left over from when it was made. I managed to get that front receiver screw out, so if I put the scope rail back I can use all 4 holes. I also managed to get the rear sight out of the dove tail. Maybe now when I put it back, I can actually use the factory sights and won't have to get new ones. I still need to pull the hood off the front sight and clean there. It down to a pile of parts and a barreled receiver at this point. Anyone know how Marlin put the barrels on back before the Remington days?
Re: Firearms and Shooting
September 03, 2019 07:05AM
The Ramblin’ Man is back:



Re: Firearms and Shooting
September 03, 2019 07:29AM
I shot 150 rounds through the Beretta 81 Cheetah (32acp) and 150 rounds through the G42 (380 acp.) Comparison takeaway...

- The Beretta is a small gun but considerably more bulky than the G42. The Beretta is also heavier, but on it's own it feels like a lightweight gun. Bottom line... the G42 is a much nicer concealed carry option, but with the right holster I would consider the Beretta 32acp something I "might"carry.

- The Beretta is more comfortable in the hand than the G42. It fits my hand nearly perfectly. The G42 has a smaller handle than I would prefer. It is interesting how noticeable the grip angle is shooting them back to back. The more upright handle angle of the Beretta feels more natural.

- The Beretta has slightly less recoil than the G42, which I consider to have very light recoil. Given that the G42 is shooting a more powerful round, and that is a lighter gun, and that it has a less hand filling grip, I am more impressed with the G42 in the recoil department.

- The Beretta holds 12+1 rounds, and the G42 holds 6+1 rounds (7 + 1 with the MagGuts spring.) More rounds is always nice.

- The Beretta seemed slightly more accurate than the G42, but I would have to put a lot more rounds through both back to back to be positive. Hitting 12 gauge shells at 25 yards seemed easier with the Beretta.

- I was definitely faster on the steel targets at 15 yards with the Beretta. Double taps were also faster with the Beretta.

- Zero issues with either gun. No jams, misfires etc.

I plan to take out the Beretta a lot this Fall. It is a very fun range gun. It is nicer to shoot than the G42 and it is nice to have more rounds. I'm undecided on it as a carry gun, but my initial thought is that the Beretta is bulkier than something I would want to carry regularly.


Chumgeyser on Youtube
E-nep throwing Brotherhood. Charter Member
Re: Firearms and Shooting
September 03, 2019 05:41PM
Ryan- nice explanation of your carry choices. Your finger is really far through the trigger guard in the PM40, does it cause any pulling? Given the biomechanics you describe to make the PM40 cycle reliably, do you have any concerns that you may not be able to assume a stiff arm position in a close quarters confrontation?

True that most people aren’t looking for bulges or assume they are phones. As a matter of habit and old training, I do scan for weapons as I am walking through crowds and spot concealed weapons on a fairly decent basis- was a local 4H fair with the kids this weekend and noticed several people carrying. But I live in a state with high Number gun owners, Ccw permits.

Your recoil tolerance is high. I find .40 to be very snappy in smaller guns, same with .357. To the point where I traded off all my .40 and stick with .380, 9mm or in a full size or nearly pistol, .45.

As for your 32” waist and flat stomach- we’ll see in 20 years!
Re: Firearms and Shooting
September 03, 2019 05:46PM
Chum- interesting initial impressions. Have you tried the G43X yet? The slightly slinger, thicker grip may suit you well, and with 115gr it is soft shooting. Have you tried the Corbon or underwood .32?





Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/03/2019 05:46PM by chad234.
Re: Firearms and Shooting
September 03, 2019 09:41PM
Quote
chad234
Your finger is really far through the trigger guard in the PM40, does it cause any pulling?

It doesn’t, though I know what you mean because it’s usually an issue. The reason it doesn’t is mainly because of the trigger, it’s a long, consistent, and light pull until it fires. There’s no “wall” or anything like that, it’s just a long, smooth, rolling pull. If it was a more standard Glock/M&P trigger design, it would likely be a big problem.


Quote
chad234
Given the biomechanics you describe to make the PM40 cycle reliably, do you have any concerns that you may not be able to assume a stiff arm position in a close quarters confrontation?

Yes, this is the main thing I’m trying to figure out now. Obviously it would be preferable to not have to do that, but what I need to figure out is how likely is it that I would find myself in a situation like that, and how likely is it that I would need more than one shot to at least create more space between myself and the attacker. I have good distance-management skills from my boxing days and my situational awareness is also quite sharp and ready, so at the moment I’m not too concerned about it. But it’s definitely something that I need to give a lot of consideration to because it’s rare that things happen as planned, especially in a defensive shooting.


Quote
chad234
Your recoil tolerance is high.

I just try to ignore it and focus on other things. It’s actually not far from a sort of meditation practice, I just choose to focus on things other than the recoil, like trigger pull or my sights or the target.


Quote
chad234
As for your 32” waist and flat stomach- we’ll see in 20 years!

Yeah haha eventually I’ll probably lose that, unfortunately.
Re: Firearms and Shooting
September 05, 2019 11:06AM
Quote
chad234
Chum- interesting initial impressions. Have you tried the G43X yet? The slightly slinger, thicker grip may suit you well, and with 115gr it is soft shooting. Have you tried the Corbon or underwood .32?


I haven't tried the 43X. How does it compare grip wise to say the G26?

I haven't tried any specialty ammo in 32 acp.


Chumgeyser on Youtube
E-nep throwing Brotherhood. Charter Member
Re: Firearms and Shooting
September 10, 2019 06:39AM
[youtu.be]

Barrel life... Something to consider when making a rifle purchase.


Chumgeyser on Youtube
E-nep throwing Brotherhood. Charter Member
Re: Firearms and Shooting
September 14, 2019 12:39PM
Purchased a G43X (all black with amerigo sights) on Chad's recommendation. I let you you know what I think after I take it out.

Also ordered a LCR 22lr, because I'm a sucker for 22 revolvers.


Chumgeyser on Youtube
E-nep throwing Brotherhood. Charter Member
Re: Firearms and Shooting
September 15, 2019 05:29AM
Barrel life/ bore throat erosion: nice video, subscribed. That is a real downside to the 6.5CM. On the other hand, a replacement barrel is a few hundred dollars on most rifles, and the ammo cost of wearing one out with proper maintenance and care (not doing a huge number of mag dumps) is several thousand dollars- so really a nominal part of the overall cost of use over time. But I like guns to be able to last generations.

G43X- nice- you ordered it just as I would have.

I think you’ll like it. More hand filling than the G43. Conceal well. Very close to the G19 in terms of recoil control and shootability.

Look forward to your thoughts!
me2
Re: Firearms and Shooting
September 15, 2019 07:14AM
I'm finally starting to get decent groups with my Shield. I had someone else shoot it and the sights are pretty much dead on. I just need more practice and to see why I tend to shoot a little right of everyone else. Rifles and pistols with iron sights I'm just a bit right of POA. Scopes don't seem to do it, and neither do red dot sights, at least the few I've used.
Re: Firearms and Shooting
September 15, 2019 10:42AM
Quote
chad234
Barrel life/ bore throat erosion: nice video, subscribed. That is a real downside to the 6.5CM. On the other hand, a replacement barrel is a few hundred dollars on most rifles, and the ammo cost of wearing one out with proper maintenance and care (not doing a huge number of mag dumps) is several thousand dollars- so really a nominal part of the overall cost of use over time. But I like guns to be able to last generations.

Agreed on all points.


Quote
chad234
G43X- nice- you ordered it just as I would have.

I think you’ll like it. More hand filling than the G43. Conceal well. Very close to the G19 in terms of recoil control and shootability.

Look forward to your thoughts!

Haven't shot it yet, but it is slick. Fits my hand like a glove (the main reason I bought it at the shop.) The trigger is criiiiisp. I can't see how anyone wouldn't like the trigger on this gun. The slide release is easy to use, unlike the one on my G42.

I didn't realize until after I bought it that it was made in Austria. Interesting.


Chumgeyser on Youtube
E-nep throwing Brotherhood. Charter Member
Re: Firearms and Shooting
September 15, 2019 10:52AM
Quote
me2
I'm finally starting to get decent groups with my Shield. I had someone else shoot it and the sights are pretty much dead on. I just need more practice and to see why I tend to shoot a little right of everyone else. Rifles and pistols with iron sights I'm just a bit right of POA. Scopes don't seem to do it, and neither do red dot sights, at least the few I've used.

I think pulling right is usually due to pulling too hard on the trigger at the last moment. I started off pulling right.

Slow exhaling, slow squeezing of the trigger with a firm grip, focus on the sights... that has been my mantra to become a decent shot. Just decent though smiling smiley


Chumgeyser on Youtube
E-nep throwing Brotherhood. Charter Member
Re: Firearms and Shooting
September 15, 2019 05:35PM
[www.youtube.com]




"I am still discussing issues of steels and performance at this stage."
--Cliff Stamp

"Cause geometry cuts, .....steel determines the level and the duration"
--Roman Landes

"But in general, I'm all about high performance, Ergos, safety. That's why I've been accused of 'designing in the dark' "
--Sal Glesser
Re: Firearms and Shooting
September 16, 2019 05:17PM
Apparently there are 15 round aftermarket mags dropping for the G43 and a failed version.

If this was my only pistol, I’d like the light on for home defense. But I’m fine without the rail for a CCW piece.

[youtu.be]
Re: Firearms and Shooting
September 17, 2019 10:35AM
Quote
chad234
Apparently there are 15 round aftermarket mags dropping for the G43 and a failed version.

If this was my only pistol, I’d like the light on for home defense. But I’m fine without the rail for a CCW piece.

[youtu.be]

Just installed a new Streamlight TLR-6 on my G43X. It has been an excellent laser/light combo on my G42. The light is 100 lumens and has a wide spread. It will light up everything in my back yard, fence to fence as long as it is pointed in the general direction.

Lasers are great imho. I think they allow for much easier one handed and off handed target acquisition, as well as being able to completely negate the use of the sights. If something goes wrong (batteries?) that's what the night sights are for.

Point being, you can get a good laser/light combo for the G43.

Also have another crossbreed hybrid iwb holster on it's way. The G43 actually fits decently in my G42 Crossbreed. I didn't notice much difference in carrying the the 43 over the 42.

It has been raining like crazy here. Just waiting for a clear patch to go shooting.


Chumgeyser on Youtube
E-nep throwing Brotherhood. Charter Member
Re: Firearms and Shooting
September 17, 2019 10:50AM
In case anyone was wondering why I chose another Streamlight laser/light combo over any of the other brand options.

A) Good experience with the Streamlight I have owned.

cool smiley It is the only one that doesn't have a weird control system. A one touch button (both left and right sides) that activates or deactivates the light. Easy to switch between light only, laser only, or laser/light. No annoying button on the grip. People seem to be annoyed with the Crimson Trace version, I know I would be. Another popular brand automatically goes on when you pull it out of the holster, and requires a specific holster. There is even one offering that "senses" when your hand is on the grip... um, nothing could go wrong there, right?

The Streamlight is easy to turn on when I want it on, and easy to turn off when I want it off.


Chumgeyser on Youtube
E-nep throwing Brotherhood. Charter Member



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/17/2019 10:53AM by Chum.
Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.

Click here to login