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Firearms and Shooting

Posted by Bugout Bill 
me2
Re: Firearms and Shooting
November 03, 2019 07:12PM
I sure can't complain. I shot rifles on Friday and it still works fine. I used the last of my 75 grain Hornady. It consistently shoots 1.5" at 100 yards. I have 3 more types of 75ish grain ammo to try. I have some more time off in another week, so I'll try it then. I also have some AE 55 grain that will hold a 4" group or better at 200 yards. The KS47 is very intriguing and I looked at one closely, but it was out of my budget at the time.

I'm asking for tips on shooting the open sights on my Marlin 336. I think I have the windage set, but getting out a hammer and punch gets some odd looks when drifting the sights. Lateral spread at 100 yards was less than 2", and pretty well centered. I might need to drift a tad bit right maybe 0 5", but small adjustments are quite tedious with this method. Elevation gives me fits though. I was getting bullseyes at 50 yards, with the last 2 touching the center 1" diamond. At 100, I switched to a black and red bullseye and the groups were 3 to 4 inches either above or below the center. 5 of 6 shots still went into an 8" target, so it's still decent. I told myself if I can hit that out to 200, I wouldn't get different sights.

For trial purposes I broke down and bought 500 rounds of the Aguila 22 standard velocity, 1130 fps. Shoots very good out of the scoped Marlin and a little flatter than the CCI I had zeroed with the last couple outings. At 100 yards it was 2" high from my old zero. It's running groups between 1 and 2 inches at that range. It might need a little more fine tuning, but so far I like it. The tightest group was about 0.5".

I rezeroed the Tech Sighted Marlin for 50 yards, as this ammo is a little slower than the Blazer I had used before at 75, and the point of impact was lower. Using a rest I was able to keep about a 2" group. This rifle had one failure to feed that required pliers to clear. Out of 150 rounds through both Marlin rifles and the Victory pistol, I've had 2 failures to feed with this ammo, so pretty good by rimfire standards. It's still not as accurate as the CCI Standard, but it's more available locally and about 30% cheaper. I keep hearing its dirty, but I haven't noticed a huge difference so far.

I don't shoot that often, once per month or so since my sons band season started. I try to clean my guns between sessions, and it's less than 50 rounds per gun typically.
Re: Firearms and Shooting
November 03, 2019 09:23PM
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me2
I used the last of my 75 grain Hornady.

Is that the 75 grain BTHP? If so, that’s about the best defense/hunting ammo you can get. Performance through barriers like car doors and auto glass is also very good. Big-time damage to the target after barrier penetration. Performance through barriers is better than the V-Max style frangible varmint bullets but wounding on target without barriers involved is superior and more consistent than the 77 grain Sierra.


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me2
The KS47 is very intriguing and I looked at one closely, but it was out of my budget at the time.

To me, that’s the one that’s the most impressive from an engineering-to-cost ratio perspective. They had the advantage of hindsight and being able to correct problems from past rifle designs, but to be able to achieve complete reliability with very novel design tweaks and still somehow manage to sell the rifle for well under half of what the competitors do, well its really remarkable.


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me2
I'm asking for tips on shooting the open sights on my Marlin 336...

Which of these examples does the sight picture look like?:

me2
Re: Firearms and Shooting
November 04, 2019 04:11AM
Yes it's the Hornady Black 223 75 grain bthp. I thought they are just target bullets. How do the do so much damage?

My sights are like E. I was shooting a black target with a red bullseye with a black front sight bead. It just blends into the target. I'm going to try a 6 o'clock hold on an orange paper plate before I make any more adjustments. Should be in a couple weeks.
Re: Firearms and Shooting
November 04, 2019 03:40PM
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me2
Yes it's the Hornady Black 223 75 grain bthp. I thought they are just target bullets. How do the do so much damage?

It’s because Hornady used their extremely thin and soft AMP jacket design, this is significantly weaker and more easily deformed than the much thicker jackets used by Sierra and other match HP bullet designs.

So what you get with the Hornady BTHP design is the same very soft and paper-thin jacket as a varmint bullet but because it’s using a very narrow hollow point instead of the very wide one found on, for example, the V-Max and similar bullets, there’s a delay of expansion as compared to the V-Max. They did it all on accident, they unintentionally created an excellent all-around .224” bullet when all they had intended to do was make a match bullet. A happy coincidence for the consumers.

Since that stuff is shooting well in your rifle, I’d strongly recommend you get some more and use them for anything serious like defense or hunting.

By the way, I’m getting that information from Nathan’s latest book, “Small Arms Wound Ballistics”, which is a very interesting and informative read that has caused about a 50/50 ratio of collapse/confirmation of some of my views and understandings on the subject.

For example, the 7.62x39mm is often far more devastating on human targets than the 5.56x45mm ball ammo, but not because of bullet diameter and mass alone, but rather because in most cases the combination of loose bore and bullet diameter tolerances combined with poor concentricity of the Russian steel-core ammo causes very poor bullet stability which can cause tumbling on impact with soft targets. So you wind up with an odd situation where poorly-maintained and outdated equipment that’s used by poorly-trained soldiers from 3rd world countries is actually quite often more lethal than the highly-advanced equipment and extremely well-trained soldiers of America.
Re: Firearms and Shooting
November 05, 2019 12:54PM
I got a new shotgun barrel for the SXP in the mail on Monday along with an extended Modified choke, Carlson’s “Cremator” waterfowl model, and based on preliminary patterns with three types of birdshot and three types of buckshot I have increased the effective range of the gun by at least twofold over what the fixed cylinder bore barrel provided. Patterns at 20 yards are now very reminiscent of what they once were at 10 yards, and #5 birdshot from the same setup now produces effective patterns at 40 yards where before it was maxed out at 25 or 30.

I’m extremely happy because the gun is still very lightweight and compact (for a shotgun) at just a touch over 40” in length and right at 7lbs. loaded with a sling mounted. Now I have an extremely versatile tool that can take game ranging from rabbits to deer at up to 30 or 40 yards and also use the same gun as a very effective outdoors and home defense tool. The versatility of a good pump 12 gauge is just incredible.

Here’s a picture of the gun in question, the bore, chamber, and outside of the barrel is completely hard chrome plated, the receiver is aluminum, and internal working parts are either lightly greased by me or the parts are plated with what Winchester calls “black chrome”, it’s almost weatherproof. The barrel is a factory part off of the Marine Defender model, identical with the exception of the outer finish and the fact that it’s threaded for Invector Plus chokes.


me2
Re: Firearms and Shooting
November 05, 2019 05:37PM
I'm still impressed with the usefulness of just the basic 870 I have. If my son still wants to go, I think we're going to shoot clays Saturday. What are your opinions on the Aguila mini-shells? We thought about trying them just for fun, but reliability is iffy in 870s apparently.
Re: Firearms and Shooting
November 05, 2019 06:59PM
I haven’t tried the mini shells, Federal has recently released some as well by the way, but they might be fun just to try out for the heck of it. I wouldn’t use them for defensive purposes or really even hunting because the shot charges are much lighter, however, for just messing around and shooting at stuff on the range they might be fun.
Re: Firearms and Shooting
November 07, 2019 12:38PM
After reading through Nathan’s new book, I’ve come to a tentative conclusion regarding handgun cartridges:

- The .40 S&W is the minimum that I’m comfortable with.


There’s enough of a difference between the .40 and the .45 +P to easily justify the increase in size of a G30 over the G27. A soft 185 grain .45 hollow point (Sierra, Nosler, etc.) at impact velocities of 1,100 and higher produces substantially larger wounds than anything the .40 is capable of. Wound diameters of an inch or more along with a degree of remote wounding from the bullet shedding weight and secondary missile wounding from bone splinters. 10mm wasn’t shown in the book but Nathan said in an email exchange that the 10mm is much the same as a hot .45 Auto. Once people spend some time actually using either cartridge, they tend to stick with them because it’s difficult to look away from the effects on the target.

Oh and by the way guys, .45 Auto 230 grain hardball produces wounds that are roughly the same as a 147 grain 9mm hollow point. Food for thought.

The main advantage of the .40 over the 9mm is that you get a moderate increase in wound diameter, a moderate increase in penetration, and (if using 180 grain hollow points) the performance through barriers is far better than even the hottest 9mm with modern bullets. But even with all those advantages, the .45 still outperforms it by a quite noticeable degree, leaving the 9mm way behind in a distant third place.
Re: Firearms and Shooting
November 07, 2019 05:04PM
Ryan,
Nice that you have found a cartridge that you feel confident in. This is an often overlooked issue when it comes to firearms. How do you feel to the argument that most handgun cartridges are under powered for stopping power when it comes to humans and that a rifle cartridge is the only true solution for stopping power for humans? I have always liked the 9mm myself, but when you put a 9mm next to a .45 ACP, it looks tiny. My friend showed me that when I was 17 years old, and it shocked me. Another argument going around is that with modern HP loads, for humans, everything from .380 ACP to .45 ACP has the same stopping power. What do you think of that? I know you are looking for an all around load, and for critters, a handgun usually needs to start with a 4 to get the job done, not just humanely but period.

"I am still discussing issues of steels and performance at this stage."
--Cliff Stamp

"Cause geometry cuts, .....steel determines the level and the duration"
--Roman Landes

"But in general, I'm all about high performance, Ergos, safety. That's why I've been accused of 'designing in the dark' "
--Sal Glesser
Re: Firearms and Shooting
November 07, 2019 08:02PM
Jason, my basic view at this point is this:

If I’m willing to limit myself to CNS shots only, then pretty much any handgun cartridge will work fine. Since I’m not willing to limit myself to CNS shots only, I think it’s worthwhile to just sack up and deal with a somewhat larger gun (either a G30 or a G29) because the difference in wounds produced by the .40 vs. the .45 +P and 10mm is not trivial.

——

Note however that the G27 is not going anywhere, it still has it’s place because it’s now what I consider to be the minimum gun I am comfortable carrying. Plus it makes an excellent companion piece to the Sub2000 since they share ammo with each other. Put the two guns, a bunch of magazines, the Safariland leg holster, and a few hundred rounds of ammunition in some kind of storage package and I have a ready-made bugout bag that works for both defense from people or animals and for obtaining food.

If the difference in damage was not very much, then I probably wouldn’t bother with the larger gun. But I can’t un-see what I’ve seen, I can’t forget about it, so I feel compelled to get one of the two more powerful Glocks. I went to a local gun shop this morning and did a side-by-side of the G27 and G29. Though the gun is certainly bigger in all dimensions as well as heavier by several ounces, I am willing to put up with it because I value the additional firepower more than the additional size and weight.

And factory ammo is no longer a concern of mine because I have started hand loading, so I could easily use .45 Super brass and a heavy recoil spring in the G30 to send 185 grain JHP’s down range at 1,250 or more. And it wouldn’t really cost any more than any other handgun cartridges to do it. 10mm has its appeals as well because I can load .40 and 10mm using identical bullets and dies, the G27 would send them at 1,025 and the G29 would send them at 1,275 or so.
Re: Firearms and Shooting
November 07, 2019 09:17PM
Ryan,
Thanks. What is it that you saw that led you down this road? I am not a recoil sensitive individual, but I like ammo capacity and quick, accurate follow up shots and penetration, so a 9mm makes sense for me. I really am not a caliber snob, I think everything is useful.

"I am still discussing issues of steels and performance at this stage."
--Cliff Stamp

"Cause geometry cuts, .....steel determines the level and the duration"
--Roman Landes

"But in general, I'm all about high performance, Ergos, safety. That's why I've been accused of 'designing in the dark' "
--Sal Glesser
Re: Firearms and Shooting
November 07, 2019 09:50PM
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jasonstone20
What is it that you saw that led you down this road?

Pictures and summaries of field notes in Nathan Foster’s recent book Small Arms Wound Ballistics:

[www.ballisticstudies.com]
me2
Re: Firearms and Shooting
November 09, 2019 07:05AM
How dod you get it? Are you a medic?
Re: Firearms and Shooting
November 09, 2019 09:40AM
No, I got it because I sent a very formal email and probably because Nathan knows me (to some degree) and has a several-year-long record of me not showing any indications of being a mass murderer. He’s got plenty evidence to point to that could cover his ass if I were to do something crazy.

In the email I explained several reasons why I was interested in the book, and went on to say that the book would not be reproduced or used for monetary gain and would not be used to aid in any criminal activity. I just treated the email like it was something that a prosecutor would see, because you never know who’s watching in New Zealand right now, they’ve been a bit, ahh, politically tense down there. It was written honestly and formally.
Re: Firearms and Shooting
November 09, 2019 10:54AM
One of the most interesting things about the work in that book is these two things:

- It shows solid evidence that the .40 S&W did, indeed, correct for all of the problems of the 9mm that it was intended to correct, the cartridge does exactly what it was intended to do.

- The problems with the 9mm that lead to the development of the .40 S&W are absolutely not solved by “modern bullet technology”, as is so popularly claimed by so many people, they’re due to the fact that 9mm is simply a light cartridge that has neither bullet mass, bullet diameter, or high velocity to work with. Not a single one of those things can be solved by “modern bullets” because they’re features of the cartridge design itself. It’s issues are due to physics, and as far as I can tell, “modern bullets” don’t have magical powers that let them skirt the laws of physics. Exactly what Paul Harrell has been saying with regards to “hyper ammunition” and how he’s found that it generally doesn’t do anything differently than the basic cup-and-core UMC or WWB stuff does.

—-

The .357 Sig solves the problems by using velocity to achieve disproportionate-to-caliber wounding but it still struggles somewhat with bullet selection and penetration because you either have a soft/frangible bullet that increases wound diameter or a tougher bullet that increases penetration through barriers but offers less wounding potential.

The .40 solves the problems by using a combination of increased bullet diameter and mass, leading to both wider wounding than the 9mm as well as deeper penetration and far more reliable and damaging performance through barriers. And fast handloads with 155 grain bullets can achieve some measure of disproportionate-to-caliber wounding as well. So while it’s still a rather weak cartridge in terms of power and energy, it can at least be relied upon to make deep and relatively wide wounds and not be troubled by typical barriers like car doors and auto glass. A basic and inexpensive 180 grain bullet, like the XTP, Hydra Shok, or Winchester design, can be used reliably to accomplish anything a police officer might need to do with his handgun, which is exactly what was intended by the designers. It solves the 9mm’s problems by addressing the physical characteristics of the 9mm cartridge itself.

The .45 never really struggled with either of these things and still does what it does, it’s capable of doing anything that the .40 is capable of except it produces broader and faster-bleeding wounds as well as deeper penetration through the increased diameter and mass of the bullets.

Same for the 10mm, it adds enough velocity to the .40 so that you either get significantly increased wound diameter from 155 or 180 grain bullets or the ability to launch much heavier bullets (a 200 grain hollow point for example) to higher velocities (1,150 to 1,200 FPS, typical speeds for a 155 grain .40 load) so that you get an increase in both penetration and effective range over the 180 grain .40 S&W at 1,000 FPS

—-

Like I’ve argued for years now, gel testing can’t show you any of this. It only shows you what happens when you shoot a block of gel. You’ve got to actually use the cartridges to kill things.
Re: Firearms and Shooting
November 09, 2019 12:48PM
If you guys want a good gun-related chuckle, check out this reddit thread, it’s not R-rated or anything, I think it’s safe for kids or certainly teenagers, but it’s page after page of hilarious wisecracking:

[www.reddit.com]
Re: Firearms and Shooting
November 09, 2019 05:32PM
Ryan,
Someone I knew once told me that he would only use FMJ's for 9MM, because the cartridge does what is was designed to do, penetrate. Good for war, like it's namesake (Parabellum), but not ideal for stopping power or self-defense, ect. Similar what happened with the .308 Win in military trials vs the 5.56 X 45mm, where more people could shoot the 5.56 more accurately, same with the 9mm vs .45 ACP, the 9mm was easier for most people to shoot. Like you said, the .40 S&W was designed to fix the 9mm's issues, and I haven't seen anything to show that is hasn't done that. Not sure why the FBI went back to the 9mm.

"I am still discussing issues of steels and performance at this stage."
--Cliff Stamp

"Cause geometry cuts, .....steel determines the level and the duration"
--Roman Landes

"But in general, I'm all about high performance, Ergos, safety. That's why I've been accused of 'designing in the dark' "
--Sal Glesser
Re: Firearms and Shooting
November 09, 2019 07:42PM
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jasonstone20
Not sure why the FBI went back to the 9mm.

It’s probably because it’s cheaper for them to practice with and they used ballistic gel as their testing medium.

—-

As for the lighter cartridges being “Easier for people to shoot accurately and quickly,” arguments, well, for a civilian that’s fine. Do what you want, it’s only yourself that you’re responsible for so it’s all your decision to make.

But when it comes to police and military personnel, I think they need to use the most effective ammunition they can possibly get and require additional training for individuals who can’t make qualification with it. These men and women get paid to be competent shooters because part of their job is to shoot when the situation calls for it. If they can’t qualify with an effective cartridge and firearm, then they need to train until they can do it or just find a desk job at HQ instead. Their job is to protect and serve, it’s serious business and civilian lives are on the line, let alone the officers’ themselves.

I think it’s absolutely disgracefull that they would downgrade the weaponry to suit the lowest-performing individuals instead of saying, “Do better, or you’re gonna be moved to the evidence room to work with Old Steve, he’s gonna retire soon and he needs a replacement.”

Imagine if I went up to my boxing trainer and said, “Hey Boyd, I can’t block incoming body shots very well, it’s really hard, so how about you tell all my sparring partners to not hit me there?” He’d probably collapse to the floor in hysterical laughter and then tell my sparring partners to throw nothing but heavy, mean, hardcore body shots until I learn how to block them. He’d say, “We’ll have to work on that until it’s not a problem for you.” Because he knows that avoidance of what I find difficult isn’t gonna help me, not when the fight is for real, for keeps.
me2
Re: Firearms and Shooting
November 10, 2019 11:50AM
Don't you have to qualify with some sort of sidearm to be on a police force? Is moving someone to a desk because they can't shoot an option?

I'll soon have to give my brother back his P94. Right now, I shoot it as accurately as anything else I have and it's a 40. I want to get a hard case and another magazine before I give it back. I got two 9mm pistols mostly for economic reasons. They're cheaper to shoot and the guns were cheaper overall.

However, I don't understand the turn against the 40. More to Ryan's point, if people couldn't shoot the 10mm well enough to qualify, why not just practice more rather than get rid of the guns or download the round? For that matter why not just switch to 45?

He's just going to have to shoot it to see how to adjust it for him. I shoot it ok, but the last trip to the range indicates someone else may have quite a different experience.
Re: Firearms and Shooting
November 10, 2019 12:28PM
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me2
Don't you have to qualify with some sort of sidearm to be on a police force?

As far as I know, every police department has a set of rules surrounding the officers’ duty and off-duty weapons, they have to shoot a specific course of fire at certain monthly intervals and are scored based on performance. It’s like a shooting test to verify the officers’ ability to competently use their firearms.

From what I’m seeing, the shift down from the 10mm to the .40, and from the .40 to the 9mm has often been claimed to be due to people having trouble making qualification with the more potent cartridges.

Large agencies (hundreds of thousands of rounds) will also spend considerably less money on 9mm than they would on the larger calibers.

Neither of those two reasons strike me as acceptable justification for going with the lighter cartridge. Training fixes the first issue and the second issue would seem to me to be of secondary importance to the tools’ abilities to do the job well.

It’s not as if the 9mm can’t get the job done, but to say “it’s just as powerful as “x” because of modern bullets” is wrong, all of the other service cartridges show substantial advantages in terminal performance and speed of killing, regardless of the fancy bullet in the 9mm.
me2
Re: Firearms and Shooting
November 10, 2019 04:20PM
Do your references have the more recent styles of bullet construction? I suppose so if you had the Hornady 223 information. I wonder if I could get a copy. I think it would have to be a fairly convincing letter.
Re: Firearms and Shooting
November 10, 2019 06:21PM
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me2
Do your references have the more recent styles of bullet construction?

In that section of the book, the .223/5.56mm section, he covers all current NATO designs, varmint bullets like the V-Max, the Hornady 75 grain HPBT, the Sierra 77 grain Match King, 55 grain Hornady GMX and Barnes TSX, and the 79 grain DRT frangible bullet. They were tested on 3mm and 6mm mild steel plate, car doors, laminate glass, and live feral goats. The barriers were shot with cadaver goats placed behind them. That style of testing is done throughout the book on most of the other cartridges covered.

It’s actually quite an extensive amount of work and time, all documented with full-color pictures of results as well as writing.
Re: Firearms and Shooting
November 15, 2019 04:43PM
Been gone a minute due to some extreme work obligations- but have a minute to breath now.

Chum- sorry you didn’t like the 43x- do you see any role for it in your systems? Please let us know how that Keltec works, I’ve wanted one for a while but have been reluctant based on varying reports of QC.

I recently picked up a .32 myself for extreme low profile carry- But I’ve not been to the range in over a month so it is yet untested:



Re: Firearms and Shooting
November 15, 2019 05:34PM
The Rolls Royce of pocket pistols... very nice pickup chad!

I still haven't been able to fire the Kel Tec 32acp. Weather and responsibilities have conspired against me.

I don't hate the G43X at all. There is a lot to like about it, and I need to do a lot more shooting with it. I can't get beyond the appeal of the G43X's comfort in hand. For that alone I need to give it more range time. Perhaps I will find it in my rotation eventually.


Chumgeyser on Youtube
E-nep throwing Brotherhood. Charter Member
Re: Firearms and Shooting
November 15, 2019 08:33PM
Build quality on the Seecamp is superb. I hope to get to the range this weekend. But between my private practice and academic position time is very tight and what little I have my family deserves.

My last range trip- probably 6 weeks ago- I came away very impressed with the S&W AR15-22 I traded into from a friend. It’s accuracy is near on or with my 10/22 despite the heavier trigger.


At 25 yards, all with CCI 40gr- tight one hole groups that spread out as the barrel heats up. Super fun gun, good training tool.




me2
Re: Firearms and Shooting
November 19, 2019 02:31PM
Ok. I see the picture now. I was going to ask if you used standard velocity or high. I have not actually tried mini-mags in any of my 22s. I have had excellent to superb accuracy from the standard velocity CCI. I've basically switched to Aguila standard velocity now, which is a little faster, 1130 fps. Accuracy seems very good to excellent.

I had some range time today for pistols. The Aguila had some jams in the Victory 4 or 5 times. It needs to be cleaned, so unless I confirm it's something else, I'll just assume it's a bit dirty. Its pushing 200 rounds since the last cleaning. Accuracy is still outstanding, with 90% of my shots going into a 4" circle at 25 yards. I'm still considering a red dot for this pistol. Both Nikon and SIG have competitively priced versions with 2 MOA reticles.

The M&P9 is still great. No failures, dead center windage and about 1" low at 10 yards. Its accurate enough that a 12" target at 25 yards isn't a certain fail. I've got less than 100 rounds through it, so something could still happen. So far, it's a great shooter.

The Shield not so much. Still reliable, the first 3 shots at 5 yards went in the bullseye, and it went down hill from there. I've shot it enough now that I think I can say I'm probably going to adjust the sights a little to center it up. It probably deserved a couple solo sessions to be sure.

The P94 was the star. I got the sight picture finalized. The top of the front sight needs to sit even with the top edge of the rear sights, leaving maybe 1/32" of the front sight sticking above the rear sights top edge. Once that was established, shooting from a rest at 10 yards cut the bullseye out of the target. It appears to really like Winchester 180 grain ammo. It has performed well with this in the past as well as today. I'll return it to my brother soon.
me2
Re: Firearms and Shooting
November 19, 2019 09:07PM
I nearly forgot I took the Crossman Vigilante pellet revolver to the range today as well. I finished off my pellet supply, about 100 rounds. It did quite well. I zeroed out for 5 yards and shot single action for that. After it zeroed, I switched to using double action and was able to hold decent groups. The rotary mags I have for it hold 10 pellets and I have 4. By the end of the 5th magazine, the drop in velocity is enough to notice and have to compensate a little. It will make it through the 6th magazine if I haven't been rapid firing. Not bad for a CO2 powered practice revolver. I tried it double action with just one hand a few shots. While not great, it shot better than I expected. I've been using it for dry firing, trying to build up trigger control. I'll probably make it a standard for range trips. It's a good warm up and far cheaper than anything else to shoot. It holds slightly larger groups than the Victory at these short ranges. I'll try moving out to 7 or even 10 yards next time. It won't be a 25 yard plinker but 20 feet seems reasonable.
Re: Firearms and Shooting
November 20, 2019 07:47AM
CCI standard velocity has been good for me. How is the trigger on the Crossman Vigilante?
me2
Re: Firearms and Shooting
November 20, 2019 11:51AM
Had a hard time with it at the beginning. Shot it almost exclusively single action, and I would notice weakness/fatigue after a 10 round magazine from it.

I've been doing a lot of trigger control work lately. Dry firing the revolver, dry firing an air soft HK copy with a horrible trigger, regularly dry firing my other pistols using a penny balanced on the front sight, etc. I don't have an actual revolver to compare it to, but from memory it's close the the DA pull of my old GP100.
Re: Firearms and Shooting
November 22, 2019 10:25AM
"Federal Blue Box Ammunition is crap!"
~ Paul Harrell @ around 11min
Reduced Recoil 00 Buck


Chumgeyser on Youtube
E-nep throwing Brotherhood. Charter Member
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