Welcome! Log In Create A New Profile

Advanced

Firearms and Shooting

Posted by Bugout Bill 
This forum is currently read only. You can not log in or make any changes. This is a temporary situation.
Re: Firearms and Shooting
May 06, 2020 05:47AM
Quote
me2
Well, presses are hard to come by locally, and I wanted a little trip. I drove about an hour north to get a Lee 50th Anniversary kit with a single stage press and some small pistol primers. Primers are also spotty on availability. Today I found a set of Lee dies, some appropriate pistol powder for 9mm, and some 115 grain FMJ projectiles. The 9mm is the simplest of the ones I have to try, so I figure I'll start there. I have about 250 empty cases and 1 lb of powder will make over 1000 rounds if my math is right.

The place I got the bullets has a 600 round box, and if my endeavors are successful, I may go back and pick that up. The only thing I have left to get is a case tumbler. I think my public local range opened back up, and I can get brass there. I'll hand clean these and see how it goes. I may hook up a nylon brush on a dremel with some buffing compound and see how that does cleaning.

Excellent. That’s the exact same kit that I have. Don’t let anyone put doubts in your mind about the capabilities of Lee gear, either. It might not be the most expensive or the most polished and fancy stuff, but it will produce ammo that’s just as concentric and uniform as anything else on the market, and quite often better. A bonus for me is that it’s made in Wisconsin, too, so the money stays local.
Re: Firearms and Shooting
May 06, 2020 05:49AM
Quote
Old Spice
Quote
Chum
I've given up on thinking California and NY will ever change and be vaguely American again. They'll keep coming up with new shystery ways to subvert the Constitution.

I think it's time for a red and blue split. The blue team can have CA, NY, DC and a smattering of other blue states that have no hope of ever becoming red, or reddish. They can elect their own President, Congress, etc. Let's have an amicable split.

By amicable you mean nuking right?

As long as Old Spice moves out first.
Re: Firearms and Shooting
May 06, 2020 06:21AM
Nah don't wait for me I'll be fine.
Re: Firearms and Shooting
May 06, 2020 07:09AM
Quote
Old Spice
Nah don't wait for me I'll be fine.

He wants to watch it all burn. the finger smiley
me2
Re: Firearms and Shooting
May 06, 2020 09:08PM
Quote
Ryan Nafe
Quote
me2
Well, presses are hard to come by locally, and I wanted a little trip. I drove about an hour north to get a Lee 50th Anniversary kit with a single stage press and some small pistol primers. Primers are also spotty on availability. Today I found a set of Lee dies, some appropriate pistol powder for 9mm, and some 115 grain FMJ projectiles. The 9mm is the simplest of the ones I have to try, so I figure I'll start there. I have about 250 empty cases and 1 lb of powder will make over 1000 rounds if my math is right.

The place I got the bullets has a 600 round box, and if my endeavors are successful, I may go back and pick that up. The only thing I have left to get is a case tumbler. I think my public local range opened back up, and I can get brass there. I'll hand clean these and see how it goes. I may hook up a nylon brush on a dremel with some buffing compound and see how that does cleaning.

Excellent. That’s the exact same kit that I have. Don’t let anyone put doubts in your mind about the capabilities of Lee gear, either. It might not be the most expensive or the most polished and fancy stuff, but it will produce ammo that’s just as concentric and uniform as anything else on the market, and quite often better. A bonus for me is that it’s made in Wisconsin, too, so the money stays local.

That's everyone's general consensus I have 2 more die sets to get, one of which will be very hard to track down. Its 223/556. The other is 30-30. For consistency I'd like to get Lee dies for those as well.

I may look into casting my own bullets, as that will drop the prices a lot. Soft lead for 147 grain 9mm would put the cost per round at 22 rimfire prices. That's a little advanced for me now, but it's worth checking into after I get some practice. I'd definately consider it for the 30-30 and 9mm.
Re: Firearms and Shooting
May 07, 2020 02:11AM
The thing I can remember about reloading isn't really the difference in quality or results of the Lee dies, and presses, but speed, compared to a more expensive Dillion one-pull/one-round, all in one machines.

"I am still discussing issues of steels and performance at this stage." -- Cliff Stamp, May his memory be a blessing
"Life is GOOD", -- Stefan_Wolf, May His Memory Be A Blessing
WordPress YouTube Facebook Patreon Locals Instagram Twitter
me2
Re: Firearms and Shooting
May 07, 2020 06:08PM
Those are nice, but I'd have to shoot a lot more than I do to justify one. Also, its evidently a fair bit more complicated. One of the members at my buddies club has been trying to fix a timing issue for a while on his Dillon. If it's something I like, I'll probably move up, but a turret press seems more likely.
Re: Firearms and Shooting
May 07, 2020 07:06PM
In my opinion as well as that of many other people who’ve been doing it for decades, an auto-progressive press setup is almost always a bad thing to start out with. They’re very expensive for one thing, and for another they greatly complicate the understanding of and control of the individual processes. They’re also not typically as consistent and accurate as a good single-stage.

For most people, especially people who are primarily reloading for rifles and a bit of handgun shooting as well, a single-stage is far more economical and easy to deal with. The only time an AP press is really of benefit is high-volume handgun or AR shooters.

I’ve sidelined my reloading for a few years because I found that 7mm Rem Mag factory ammo from HSM that gets around .6 MOA from my rifle. The 7mm was the primary reason I decided to go into it, and I’ve now got ammo that is plenty powerful and very accurate, so I don’t need to mess with reloading right now.
me2
Re: Firearms and Shooting
May 07, 2020 11:34PM
I'm hoping to boost the accuracy of my AR and Marlin. I mainly wanted to reload for that, but 9mm is simpler and I have to start somewhere.
Re: Firearms and Shooting
May 08, 2020 12:31AM
Ryan,
Definitely. That is how I learned how to re-load, with a single stage press.

"I am still discussing issues of steels and performance at this stage." -- Cliff Stamp, May his memory be a blessing
"Life is GOOD", -- Stefan_Wolf, May His Memory Be A Blessing
WordPress YouTube Facebook Patreon Locals Instagram Twitter
Re: Firearms and Shooting
May 08, 2020 12:32AM
me2,
Did you get a shell tumbler? That will speed up your time for reusing cases.

"I am still discussing issues of steels and performance at this stage." -- Cliff Stamp, May his memory be a blessing
"Life is GOOD", -- Stefan_Wolf, May His Memory Be A Blessing
WordPress YouTube Facebook Patreon Locals Instagram Twitter
Re: Firearms and Shooting
May 08, 2020 12:35AM
Yeah the 9mm is a good idea for starting out.

If you can find them, try to get the Lee Ultimate die sets for the .30-30 and the .223/5.56mm, they come with the Lee Factory Crimp Die. This will be really useful for the lever action and semi automatic action, they’ll help the bullet stay seated in the neck properly when the guns are cycling. They can also help a bit with lowering the extreme spread and also for ensuring consistent ignition with ball powders that you might use in the .223.
me2
Re: Firearms and Shooting
May 08, 2020 02:49AM
I'm trying to find a common powder for 30-30 and 223. There are a couple from Hodgden. For simplicity and economy I'm looking for just those die sets. I'm hopefully going to my local range Saturday, but I'm not going to rush just to get something loaded by then. I've got enough to go shooting a time or 2 before getting uncomfortably low. I'll try to keep my brass, but I don't have a tumbler yet, so i don't want to pick up random range brass.

I'll have to wait for the 30-30 and 223 dies. They are rarer than hen's teeth anyway, and rifle powder is difficult to find too. 30-30 bullets are hard to find, as are 223 that aren't match grade. That's actually ok, as I was going to reload 69, 75, or 77 grain in an effort to replicate the Hornady Black performance at plinking ammo pricing. My buddy accidentally bought a box of 80 grain bullets, so if I can, I may get some of those and single feed them just to see what happens.
Re: Firearms and Shooting
May 09, 2020 03:12AM
Just a point about the brass tumbler that might be of interest:

It’s similar to the auto-progressive presses in the sense that, unless you’re constantly processing hundreds of rounds, it’s really not necessary unless you just strongly value the convenience.

Rifle brass, for example, will in most cases be stretched beyond usefulness well before the carbon buildup inside the case becomes a problem. In the case of your .30-30, where you may only be working with 40 to 60 cases, it’s not particularly difficult to clean the exterior of them by hand.

Handgun brass is a slightly different story just because it’s actually somewhat difficult to handle the very small cases like the 9mm, especially if you’re doing it a lot.




As for me and guns, I’m pretty well sorted out with what I have right now. All practical bases have been covered, I’ve a good understanding of what my tools are capable of and how best to employ them, so now my interest has shifted back to knives with a similar goal that I had when I started working with a variety of guns in a very intentional and thoughtful way a few years ago.

The goal is to try various things and eventually cut (haha) the collection down to a very select group of tools that serve very specific purposes, to maximize my familiarity and general skill level with them and minimize the amount of knives I actually own.
cKc
Re: Firearms and Shooting
May 09, 2020 10:59AM
cant find the video but my brother uses a thing like this for reloading and reusing casings. works pretty neat.. always amazed by human ingenuity for this type of stuff





one thing i thought is pretty neat is how it can use new or used casings and one of the dies represses the case into the correct shape, so he just collects all the casings people dont want at the range

----------------------------------------------------------------------
It's not Cliff, its Dr Stamp
#kebabstickcut, it's a thing - make it happen



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/09/2020 11:01AM by cKc.
me2
Re: Firearms and Shooting
May 10, 2020 01:54AM
CDC, that's similar to what I have but mine is much more manual. I wanted to get into reloading because my rifle ammo for 30-30 was prohibitively expensive. Now with the corona issue, it's just hard to find ammo. Much fewer people reload, so supplies are easier to find, but by no means common. It's possible I was just looking in the wrong place.

I actually went out and did some shooting today. I had enough ammo to spare and wanted to check zero on my rifles. I also decided I could spare a 50 round box of 9mm.

As long as I can see the target, my 30-30 is on at 100 yards with the factory sights. Took quite a bit of practice and some hammering, but I got the last 2 shots inside a 3" spread and they were centered around the bullseye.

My Henry H001 .22 is my current favorite of my .22s. It has broken in a bit and will even cycle the Super Colibri rounds now with just a hint of roughness. I've had one failure to feed, which was a short stroke on my part. My brother got a single shot 22 magnum, so I took off the scope to give to him. I plan to replace it addy some point, but the iron sights were more than acceptable out to 50 yards today. I didn't try further. I've beenrunning the cheap Remington Thunderbolt in it. The iron sights took a bit of gentle hammering to zero on this one too.

Rezeroed the flip sights on my AR a bit high at 100 for a 200 yard zero hopefully. Roughly zeroed the scope at 100 and was able to get his to 300. I'll have to do a bit more tweaking. I'll have to make my own BDC chart. I'm not entering something right in the Nikon app, and the holds are off. Either my velocities are slower or my sight height is different. I'm really just tinkering and wasting ammo, but it's fun.

Now for today's public service announcement. Avoid Aguila ammo in the SW22 Victory pistols. The Super Extra and Super Extra copper coated high velocity have given me trouble. The high velocity actually blew a case today and I have a bullet stuck in the barrel now. Assuming nothing is damaged, I'm probably driving to CCI and Blazer, maybe those wicked Winchester rounds Ryan showed. Seriously, that case peeled open like a banana and locked the action tighter than a gas station knife lock back.

I'm a little tired of semi-automatic 22s in general. I want a matching pair of S&W 686+ and 617. I'll probably have to settle for a Heritage Rough Rider and a Taurus Tracker.

One more thing. The Shield and M&P 9 did well. I can shoot the Shield well enough I feel confident in moving the sights a little left now. I nearly have the sight picture down for the M&P. With the adjustment, I had 6 of 6 head shots at 20 yards on a silhouette. The steel plate rack and dueling tree were less than 50% though. Still needs work, but I really like both now.

My buddy was talking pictures for his gun smithing business, so we both basically took everything we had. I even patterned my brothers 20 gage single shot. Full choke with a dense pattern about 10 inches across at 30 feet. Unless you're hunting gnats, nothing is getting through that pattern without multiple hits.
cKc
Re: Firearms and Shooting
May 10, 2020 07:54PM
Quote
me2
CDC, .

someones got Coronavirus on the brain grinning smiley grinning smiley

----------------------------------------------------------------------
It's not Cliff, its Dr Stamp
#kebabstickcut, it's a thing - make it happen
me2
Re: Firearms and Shooting
May 10, 2020 08:44PM
Yep. My autocorrect.
me2
Re: Firearms and Shooting
May 17, 2020 12:05AM
Took a bit, but I got the Victory back. Tested it out at the covid limited range and it works great. Tried a variety of ammo for reliability. Thunderbolt had more failures in one magazine than the rest of the day. I found CCI standard velocity reliable, with just one failure. Some Mini-mag was utterly reliable and quite accurate.

I found some Blazer on good sale, so I stocked up and set the sights up for that. It was also failure free over 6 or 7 magazines. Accuracy was also slightly behind the standard velocity, but not much. I set it a tiny bit low at 10 yards, which should be on at 50 yards.
me2
Re: Firearms and Shooting
May 23, 2020 08:43PM
Tried some more low noise ammo in the Henry today. The Aguila Super Colibri is out. It is very quiet, but 2 rounds missed all the paper at 25 yards, and the rest of them scattered over 6" of a 8" bullseye target. It's still sorta rough cycling, and I bet the bullet is getting dinged and causing the erratic accuracy.

CCI Standard velocity is very accurate, but not technically low noise. It is quieter than the Minimag and Thunderbolt though.

I tried some CCI Shorts and they are also very accurate, but not that quiet. They're loads of fun though, as I can fit 22 of them in the rifle (21+1).

Henry's recommendation of the CCI CB Long was spot on. Just a bit louder than the Aguila, less than the standard velocity, and minute of squirrel noggin at 25 yards. 3 of 5 in the red bullseye, and all in the 10 ring. I should have done another round, but they're hard to find and relatively expensive.

All shooting was done with the factory irons. I'll eventually scope it again, but I'm waiting until I can get a light and compact scope, preferably something like a Leupold 4x33 fixed.
Re: Firearms and Shooting
May 31, 2020 07:59PM
A quick update on my KelTech Sub-2000 .40 cal:

The more I use thing, the more I really like it. Initially I had a minor amount of buyer’s remorse because there are a number of other guns in that $300-$400 price range that I was interested in, but I have really come to like this little carbine.

Self-defense purposes out to 100 yards? Check.

Deer hunting in thick brush inside 50 yards? Check.

Extremely reliable and simple blowback mechanism? Check.

Relatively cheap ammo that’s directly compatible with my handgun? Check.



It’s really a solid little utility gun.
Re: Firearms and Shooting
May 31, 2020 10:05PM
Quote
Ryan Nafe
A quick update on my KelTech Sub-2000 .40 cal:

The more I use thing, the more I really like it. Initially I had a minor amount of buyer’s remorse because there are a number of other guns in that $300-$400 price range that I was interested in, but I have really come to like this little carbine.

Self-defense purposes out to 100 yards? Check.

Deer hunting in thick brush inside 50 yards? Check.

Extremely reliable and simple blowback mechanism? Check.

Relatively cheap ammo that’s directly compatible with my handgun? Check.



It’s really a solid little utility gun.

Nice.

I have the Kel Tec 22mag carbine. Super fun to shoot. I also have a 9mm Hi-Point carbine, which is surprisingly accurate. Weirdly it kicks about as hard as my Winchester 44mag lever action carbine. I'm not suggesting the recoil is a problem on the 9mm, it's just very strange to me that the felt recoil is as high as it is compared to a 44mag that weighs about the same.


Chumgeyser on Youtube
E-nep throwing Brotherhood. Charter Member
Re: Firearms and Shooting
June 01, 2020 12:51AM
Yeah Chum, the kick is definitely more than I’d expected. I believe it’s because of the blowback mechanism. It basically relies on a heavy bolt assembly and a spring that holds it closed/in-battery, so there’s a lot of mass that’s reciprocating back and forth during firing.

The recoil on this one is bad enough that I occasionally have bruises that show the texture of the buttstock on my shoulder pocket after an afternoon’s shooting.

I’ve actually played around with the idea of putting a slip-on recoil pad on it to help with that and also give a bit better adhesion to my shoulder.
me2
Re: Firearms and Shooting
June 01, 2020 02:38AM
Those sub 2k Kel Techs are very tempting. They have a version that is S&W compatible with my M&P 9mm. For your uses, do you use the folding feature? It begs for a red dot, but that removes that feature's usefulness.
Re: Firearms and Shooting
June 01, 2020 05:27AM
Quote
me2
For your uses, do you use the folding feature? It begs for a red dot, but that removes that feature's usefulness.

I have a big red dot on it right now, so I can’t fold it for storage anymore. But I really like the red dot and haven’t had issues with it holding zero. The folding feature is still useful because it allows very easy access to the barrel for cleaning. I think the folding feature is a little unnecessary unless you actually intend to keep it folded and stored somewhere like the car or in a backpack.
me2
Re: Firearms and Shooting
June 01, 2020 11:52PM
That would be my intent. Ideally I'd have a backpack to carry it in on trips and such. And a ccw to with it.
Re: Firearms and Shooting
June 02, 2020 09:58AM
If you want the folding feature, the stock peep sights are also perfectly adequate. Don’t let the idea of using them, of not using a red dot, keep you from getting one. The rear aperture is quite small in diameter, about the same diameter as the front post actually, so the precision is very good.

I simply wanted to try the red dot because I took it off another gun, it didn’t have a home, and I ended up keeping it there because I absolutely love it for low-light shooting.

Right now I’ve got the gun set up with the Magpul AFG-2, a Sightmark M-Spec red dot, and a Streamlight TLR-3. Our local PD uses G22’s (full-size Glock .40) which is the same magazines as this gun, I’m pretty confident I could show this to the chief and he’d consider it as a carbine alongside the shotgun in their squad cars. It’s pretty slick, nearly ideal for clearing rooms and buildings, if you ask me. Only 29.5” overall length and the loaded weight with this exact setup (calibrated kitchen scale weighed) is 5lbs. 13oz.
me2
Re: Firearms and Shooting
June 02, 2020 10:29AM
I've seen some people say they had issues getting down low enough to use the factory iron sights. Any issues with that?
Re: Firearms and Shooting
June 02, 2020 10:39AM
Quote
me2
I've seen some people say they had issues getting down low enough to use the factory iron sights. Any issues with that?

Not really, just keep in mind that the phrase is “cheek weld” and not “chin weld”. Practice with it and you’ll be just fine. Also, I wouldn’t bother with any of the aftermarket trigger stuff or other do-dads. At least in my sample of one, the trigger is fine for what it is.
me2
Re: Firearms and Shooting
June 02, 2020 02:30PM
Generally I'd rather not start changing triggers and springs and such unless there is a problem. However, I used a 2 stage AR trigger for a session at the range and may not be able to go back to the standard trigger in my AR15. I have it set up as a DMR (Discount Marksman Rifle) and for that application, a different trigger might be good. I don't see myself ever changing the triggers in my M&P pistols, or my Marlin 336. I may change some springs in the 336 and my Marlin 60s to smooth things out and increase reliability, particularly in the 60s. For a while I wanted to tinker with all of them, but that has passed for now.