Firearms and Shooting

Chum,
I get that. My point is in a truly free society you shouldn't have to wait a year for a sound suppressor.

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OK, I'm going to buy a suppressor... or two. I've put it off for too long.

I'm getting a dedicated .22 caliber can for sure. I'm not sure about the second suppressor and I can't afford a third.

I can't decide on a suppressor host. Waffling between 357mag lever action, 44mag lever action and a 300 blackout bolt action. I will consider other bolt action calibers. 300 blackout seems like a good idea due to the availability of subsonic ammo.

I'd like to get as much, consistent, accuracy at the longest range possible. The problem with lever actions is that they require flat nosed bullets. This is going to negatively effect the coefficient of drag... is this a big factor?

Most subsonic ammo starts to drop heavily after 100yards. Since you can't add velocity all you have left is coefficient of drag, correct?

Any suggestions on a host/suppressor combo (not interested in semi-autos.)


Chumgeyser on Youtube
E-nep throwing Brotherhood. Charter Member

Except maybe a 22, I would opt for a manual action for a suppressor host as well. If it was a dedicated suppressor host, I'd think hard about a 45 Colt lever action. Trajectory is close to a 22 out to 100 yards, and some of the bullets even have similar ballistic coefficients. They just weigh as much as 300 grains instead of 40. Its naturally subsonic even in it's full power loadings. You dont have to worry about a 357 or 44 chambering running 38/44 specials smoothly.

However, 300 BO in a bolt gun or pump is very appealing. The super high BC of some subsonic bullets means it basically loses very little velocity and energy decreases linearly out to 100 yards or less. It depends on what your priority is. Any notion of ranges past 100 yards favors the 300 BO.

A 300 BO could shoot regular ammo at ~2000 fps if you wanted to hunt or shoot further. Of course a 44 or even 357 mag lever action offers the versatility too, but isn't really capable out to 300 or even 400 yards. Neither is a 300 BO unless you practice a lot. Also, the issue of 38/44 special ammo functioning well seems exaggerated.

Some other factor would have to make the decision for me. Ammo or components availability, compatibility with others in the collection, ammo expense, etc.

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me2
Except maybe a 22, I would opt for a manual action for a suppressor host as well.

I'll be running a can on 22lr and 22mag semiautos.

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me2
If it was a dedicated suppressor host, I'd think hard about a 45 Colt lever action. Trajectory is close to a 22 out to 100 yards, and some of the bullets even have similar ballistic coefficients. They just weigh as much as 300 grains instead of 40. Its naturally subsonic even in it's full power loadings. You dont have to worry about a 357 or 44 chambering running 38/44 specials smoothly.

45 colt ammo is more expensive, and rare, compared to 44mag and 357mag, plus it isn't as capable as the supersonic loads. I do want a dedicated suppressor host, but I also want to be able to load it with supersonic rounds.

I really like the versatility of the 357mag lever-action. Two types of ammo, plus it would pair up well with my 8 shot revolver. However, I also like the added power of a 44mag. I have seen subsonic loads at 400 grains, specifically designed for suppressed carbines. Like the 45 Colt, however, very expensive.

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me2
However, 300 BO in a bolt gun or pump is very appealing.

I agree on the pump gun! Does someone make one in 300 bo?

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me2
The super high BC of some subsonic bullets means it basically loses very little velocity and energy decreases linearly out to 100 yards or less. It depends on what your priority is. Any notion of ranges past 100 yards favors the 300 BO.

A 300 BO could shoot regular ammo at ~2000 fps if you wanted to hunt or shoot further. Of course a 44 or even 357 mag lever action offers the versatility too, but isn't really capable out to 300 or even 400 yards. Neither is a 300 BO unless you practice a lot.

This is confirming my guesstimations.

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me2
Also, the issue of 38/44 special ammo functioning well seems exaggerated.

I wasn't aware this was an issue. It makes sense that it could be.


There is an ammo shortage atm. Online buyers hoarding and price gouging during super high demand. When 300 Blackout is available, it costs about what 44mag costs. There are also a lot more subsonic options in 300 BO.

I think I'm leaning towards 300 blackout. Thanks me2


Chumgeyser on Youtube
E-nep throwing Brotherhood. Charter Member

Yea those are the other factors I meant above. If I already had a revolver in one of the above calibers, that would be it. If I wanted ultimate versatility with factory ammo and didn't have to share with a revolver, 300 BO would win. If I were a reloader, there would be a whole other set of questions. I think I'm correct when I say a can for a 357 lever could work for a 9mm auto, and one for a 45 Colt lever could also work for a 45 auto. I'm still in the market for a 308 bolt action. The manual action makes it highly versatile.

Oh, and Troy makes a 300 BO pump, the PAR. The factory muzzle attachment is welded in place though last time I checked into them.

HR 127. This comes from a Texas congresswoman. The Constitution means nothing I guess...

[youtu.be]


Chumgeyser on Youtube
E-nep throwing Brotherhood. Charter Member

The house should probably resolve to not pass that, or there will be problems. Just sayin’.

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Ryan Nafe
The house should probably resolve to not pass that, or there will be problems. Just sayin’.

Huge problems.


Chumgeyser on Youtube
E-nep throwing Brotherhood. Charter Member

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Chum

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Ryan Nafe
The house should probably resolve to not pass that, or there will be problems. Just sayin’.

Huge problems.

To be realistic though, Chum, I suspect it’s more of a gaudy show for the leftist base than an actual serious proposal. It’s just too blatantly unconstitutional, I doubt it would pass. It’s likely either a, “See, we tried to get rid of the guns but they wouldn’t let us,” or it’s a half-smart play to ask for way more than they want.

Like when you demand a $5 raise because you’re really looking for $2 or $3, you start the negotiations way higher in order to “compromise” at your actual goal. This is also a tactic that’s very well-known to the Antifa/BLM/Activist types, so it wouldn’t surprise me if their allies in government are using the same idea.

And frankly there’s a decent chunk of well-armed people who simply won’t comply if it actually gets passed, which is probably more trouble than many of the rotten bastards in Washington want.

On a lighter note, I would like to point out the surprising number of people who have trouble zeroing or otherwise shooting their gear. It's not a majority, but on a range with 10 lanes, there is a good chance there will be one person who's trying to zero a rifle and just can't get there. I try to help, but when you're bouncing rounds sideways through my target stand, I'm probably going to leave. At least the guy with the 9mm rifle payed to fix my stand after wiping out the right post, twice.

As hard as it is to find ammo, I've seen people go through 2 or 3 boxes of it and still be off target. I get it, I'm certainly not a great shot, but how do you hit both posts, which are 2' apart, at 25 yards without changing the windage setting?

On the other hand, it offers some entertainment. Otherwise my trips would consist of "wonder if I can hit that playing card from here? Guess not. All three rounds I brought are gone. Time to pack up."

This thing is cool and the gang. Kelt-tec SUB CQB, 9mm integrally suppressed. Ryan, thoughts?

[images.app.goo.gl]


Chumgeyser on Youtube
E-nep throwing Brotherhood. Charter Member

That looks interesting, Chum, but it’s likely to still be fairly loud because of the velocity being over the speed of sound and because of the blowback mechanism.

Edit to add: Some 147 grain stuff might still be under 1,100 FPS from that barrel but I think the vast majority of 9mm ammo would well over that.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/07/2021 07:20PM by Ryan Nafe.

Colt has been purchased by CZ. Many are very excited about it.

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me2
Colt has been purchased by CZ. Many are very excited about it.

I don't like seeing an iconic American gun company purchased by a foreign company, but... Colt has been a joke for decades now and CZ is top notch. We'll likely see some really nice 1911s, ARs and hopefully SA Armies come out of this.


Chumgeyser on Youtube
E-nep throwing Brotherhood. Charter Member

Agree on all fronts. My mom has a Colt revolver that's older than me. It is really nice and shoots pretty good. I don't know anyone else that has a Colt anything. Their decisions to stop selling to civilians is the classic case of putting your eggs in one basket.

I've only used a CZ once but no one has anything bad to say quality wise. That rifle with the set trigger scared the bejeezus out of me though. Definately take some getting used to.

Not exactly a firearm of course, but I’ve decided to get serious about my ability to shoot my recurve now again. I’ve owned it for many years, since I was about 15 or 16 I think, but haven’t shot it since probably junior year of high school.

Just ordered a dozen aluminum arrows (Easton’s Camo Hunter xx75 shafts, the modern classic arrow for sure) and some other necessities along with a big target and a test pack of field points to make sure that my arrow spine is dialed-in correctly before ordering broadheads and small game points.

Depending on the head weight, which should be between 150 and 200 grains (testing will determine the exact weight needed for the arrows to fly best) the total arrow weight will be between about 650 and 700 grains. Which means that there’s enough weight in the arrow to take anything in the lower 48 if I can get close enough and the broadheads are properly shaving sharp.

Anyone else shoot bows? Mine is a Bear Archery Kodiak Magnum model, a very compact (52” AMO length) recurve designed for short range hunting in brushy areas and/or shooting from ground blinds and tree stands. This is the current production model in the classic green color, mine is an older model in grey and brown laminate wood with black glass:

[beararchery.com]

I want to go ahead and join the dog-pile on colt. I just can't understand why any manufacture wouldn't want to sell to the USA civilian market. Its only the biggest market and buys the largest volume of small arms...

I shot a bear recurve for many years. It was misplaced when I moved and I have no idea where it is now. I actually wore out strings shooting it so much. I never successfully hunted with it though.

I never figured out why a struggling manufacturer would voluntarily decrease their market size for any product.

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me2
I shot a bear recurve for many years. It was misplaced when I moved and I have no idea where it is now. I actually wore out strings shooting it so much. I never successfully hunted with it though.

Shooting it for practice prior to hunting, or shooting it for it’s own sake, just because it’s fun and interesting?

I don’t exactly need a new bow but I’m really strongly considering picking up a Bear Grizzly in the 60lb. weight, which is 50% more than my current 45lb. Kodiak Mag. Just to flatten the trajectory a little bit really. The 45lb. weight is entirely manageable for me, per Brian Sorrels’ test in his book I have, so I think I could pretty quickly work up to 50% more weight.

There are a number of advantages to my current very small and easy-drawing bow though, like the fact that I can easily get to full draw at really weird angles and positions, which is obviously a good thing for hunting. But a slightly longer AMO length and a higher peak draw weight would be nice, even just for the sake of having something to compare my current bow to. For a straight-up bow-to-bow comparison I would pick the same weight, but I think the money would be better spent on either much more or much less weight.

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Old Spice
I want to go ahead and join the dog-pile on colt. I just can't understand why any manufacture wouldn't want to sell to the USA civilian market. Its only the biggest market and buys the largest volume of small arms...

I don’t get it either. Small Arms Solutions, the YouTube channel, has an interesting video or two on the subject of Colt and some of their odd decisions like that. He worked for them for a number of years and has some insights on it.

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me2
Agree on all fronts. My mom has a Colt revolver that's older than me. It is really nice and shoots pretty good. I don't know anyone else that has a Colt anything. Their decisions to stop selling to civilians is the classic case of putting your eggs in one basket.

I've only used a CZ once but no one has anything bad to say quality wise. That rifle with the set trigger scared the bejeezus out of me though. Definately take some getting used to.

You should check the value on your mom's Colt. The older SAs can sell for 10 to 15 thousand or more. I think the pre-WW2 sell for the most.

I have a CZ P09. It is probably my best overall semi-auto. It's not quite as tight as my old West German Sig p220, but it is more accurate, and I haven't shot any modern Sigs as accurate as my old one. I shot a suped up CZ75 once that was easily the fastest and most accurate pistol I have ever shot. I have been wanting an Accu-Shadow 2 for some time.

Set triggers on CZ bolt guns are so sweeeet. The lightest triggers I've ever come across. I have a BRNO (owned by CZ) 22lr bolt with a set trigger. It is so accurate it is boring to shoot.

Old Spice... totally agree. Colt started to withhold from the civilian market back when Clinton passed the Assault Rifle bill, at least that is what I recall. Basically, Colt went left and never really turned back. A total shame imho.

CZ has been the most dominate pistol in competition shooting for awhile now. Three-gun competitions have become very popular. Colt has been making very good ARs. I'm guessing that is part of their decision to buy Colt.


Chumgeyser on Youtube
E-nep throwing Brotherhood. Charter Member

I'm still looking for a good bolt action. If I got used to it, I'm sure the set triggers would be great. It was just surprising every time. They do have intersting calibers like 6.5 Grendel and 7.62x39.

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me2
If I got used to it, I'm sure the set triggers would be great. It was just surprising every time.

For maximum accuracy, that’s actually kinda what you want. If you don’t have the ability to anticipate the ignition, you can’t flinch and destroy your accuracy.

The TriggerTech trigger I put in my hunting rifle is currently set at 1.5lbs. It’s perfectly drop safe, I’ve tested it, and it’s also not light enough for me able to unintentionally fire the rifle. Both of the deer I shot with it made for an interesting experience. In the field like that, there’s absolutely no perception of “pulling the trigger,” I simply rest a finger on it and when I want to shoot, the gun just goes off. This is exactly what you want to have going on to avoid flinching. Especially on the target range where flinching tends to be most common.

There in lies the problem. This one went off every time when I didn't want it to. It was about a pound. I have a 2 stage trigger on my 308. It goes off when I want, but I have a lot more time on it, especially since I was able to get large rifle primers for a while after everything else was gone. With probably 20 rounds, I'm sure I'd be the same as you with your hunting trigger. For just 3 shots, it was off putting, particularly on someone else's rifle.

Does anyone here own, or have experience with, a Beretta PX4 Storm? I'm interested to know if it really does have less felt recoil due to the rotating barrel. The internets gives conflicting info. Jason, didn't you have one of these?

On a Beretta related note... I have been doing trigger comparisons on all my handguns. The Beretta 81 in 32acp has a pretty amazing trigger. It is just a slick gun across the board, but the trigger is especially nice. The single action is as close to a revolver single action as anything I've felt. It does have some take up, but very little and it couldn't be smoother. The break is nearly perfect.


Chumgeyser on Youtube
E-nep throwing Brotherhood. Charter Member

Is that their 9mm carbine or a pistol? The only person I know who has a Beretta anything has a M9 pistol, so no help there.

I think the pistols are generally pretty solid, Chum. I’ve not owned or shot one before but I was doing a lot of research a couple years ago and found almost totally positive feedback, even when I was actively looking for complaints. The only real criticisms I remember seeing were about the grip (some people don’t care for it, like any other handgun really), the plastic feels different than some other guns, and minor concerns of heavy debris (mud and sand, etc.) getting into the channel on the barrel which it rotates on.

Otherwise, from people who actually used them a lot, they were pretty highly-regarded. Accurate, reliability was very good, and the parts and springs lifetime were also noted as being very good. They’re meant to be real shooters and not trendy stuff because they were designed specifically for Military and LE use, with the civilian market as the fallback plan.

I wouldn’t hesitate to buy one if you’re interested and can find a couple spare magazines, and I do remember several people shooting them alongside other guns in both .40 and 9mm and claiming to notice a different recoil feeling when doing direct comparisons. They’re also not terribly hard to find holsters for, especially OWB police models.

me2... I meant the pistol.

Ryan... I haven't found much of anything negative about them either. One complaint about the trigger and several about the looks. I think they look good. Kinda Bladerunnerish.

The rotating barrel is very interesting. All of the durability and accuracy accolades have me more interested.


Chumgeyser on Youtube
E-nep throwing Brotherhood. Charter Member