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Firearms and Shooting

Posted by Bugout Bill 
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Re: Firearms and Shooting
August 07, 2016 02:17PM
Ryan: Crosman was selling a PCP powered .177 air gun that was a drop in upper for an AR15, I think it was intended for indoor NRA high power shooting.

PCP and break action are impressive, you easily approach .22 LR power.

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Bill22252 on YouTube. "See you space cowboy"

Resident Emerson Fanboi

Folding knives are fun, fixed blades are important.
Re: Firearms and Shooting
August 07, 2016 03:28PM
Quote
Bugout Bill
If you experience a malfunction in the field and don't have another weapon handy, you will die.

lol... I was thinking the same thing when I shot my Luger a couple of weeks ago. It jammed so often, and the jams weren't always easy to clear. At one point I was thinking that the Germans probably had to use them as throwing weapons half the time.

I liked your shotgun vids Bill. Interesting perspective.


Chumgeyser on Youtube
E-nep throwing Brotherhood. Charter Member
Re: Firearms and Shooting
August 07, 2016 03:37PM
Chum: Inrange TV did an excellent video on mud testing a Luger. They found it to be extremely reliable, albeit the owner has completely rebuilt the gun with new springs. Like anything, if the parts are all kept up, reliability is good.

This was a double feed, I'd be interested to know what causes that on tube fed guns. I'm not happy about that as it is my home defense gun.

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Bill22252 on YouTube. "See you space cowboy"

Resident Emerson Fanboi

Folding knives are fun, fixed blades are important.
Re: Firearms and Shooting
August 07, 2016 04:31PM
I know that belts are being discussed in the EDC thread right now, but this is more about the belt/holster combo, so it seems more appropriate to post it here.

This combo is comfortable and light weight. It is a little difficult to make out from the picture, but the clips on the Crossbreed fit perfectly over the 1.75" wide Double Duty TDU belt from 5.11. Since your pants also get wedged under the clips it makes it very secure.

The dark smudge on the Crossbreed Mini-Tuck is from the Agrip's adhesive. It has been so hot lately that a little of the edge on the Agrip loosened. Regardless, I like the Agrip quite a bit.




Chumgeyser on Youtube
E-nep throwing Brotherhood. Charter Member
Re: Firearms and Shooting
August 07, 2016 07:03PM
Bill, I am thinking the place to look might be cartridge interrupter. If it is an 870 they sell a flextab upgrade of some sort, otherwise just see if it is gunked up or worn down.
Re: Firearms and Shooting
August 07, 2016 07:10PM
Chum- that is a really well thought out and set up carry system.

Are you planning on adding sights or an extended slide release? For extra magazine, do you prefer belt or pocket carry?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/07/2016 07:15PM by chad234.
Re: Firearms and Shooting
August 07, 2016 09:38PM
Chum: on an aside, that is really cool you have a Luger!

Any Cal: I'll check that out.

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Bill22252 on YouTube. "See you space cowboy"

Resident Emerson Fanboi

Folding knives are fun, fixed blades are important.
Re: Firearms and Shooting
August 07, 2016 10:33PM
Chum- if they made a .380 barrel for the 43, so you could shoot both .380 and 9mm, would you still choose the slightly thinner and lighter G42?
Re: Firearms and Shooting
August 08, 2016 12:46AM
Quote
chad234
Are you planning on adding sights or an extended slide release? For extra magazine, do you prefer belt or pocket carry?

I plan to add the XS Big Dot eventually. I'm a little hesitant because I have read that they are tricky to install properly, and I don't personally know any gunsmiths. There are gunsmiths in town, I just don't know them. It feels like trying your luck with a new mechanic.

I have been carrying the extra clip in my pocket, which has been fine. I will probably give a belt mag holster a try eventually.

I don't see the need for an extended slide release. I have no problems with the one it came with. That being said, I see this as a project gun. Over time I could replace all sorts of parts. I have the main items I wanted (laser/light combo, Agrip, well made holster.) I do plan on getting the large Agrip sheet and put Agrip on the bottom of the magazines.





Quote
BugoutBill
Chum: on an aside, that is really cool you have a Luger!

Thanks Bill. It is a very cool looking gun. Very comfortable. Low recoil. Accuracy wise, I think it is one of my best. The jamming is a big issue however.





Quote
chad234
Chum- if they made a .380 barrel for the 43, so you could shoot both .380 and 9mm, would you still choose the slightly thinner and lighter G42?

Man, that is a great question Chad. I have been thinking about what kind of 9mm I would get (I only have the Luger at this point.) I have ruled the 43 out. I have compared it at the range, back-to-back, with the 42 on two separate occasions now. Here's how I see the two (and this will get to your question eventually) ...

Glock 42 vs Glock 43

- The 42 is only slightly thinner than the 43 and if you just look at the numbers you probably wouldn't think the difference was noticeable. In hand it is noticeable. On your waist it would be noticeable. This might be negligible with the Crossbreed holster. If I ever do pocket carry I think this would be an issue with the 43, as the 42 is already on the large size for pocket carry.

- The weight difference is very noticeable. I have had my concealed carry permit for a very long time, but I have rarely carried concealed. The size and weight of the 42, along with this very nice Crossbreed holster, has changed that. I want to be comfortable, as often as possible. There are always sacrifices to made in this regard, but the fewer the better. I don't think I would care to carry the extra weight, and bulk, of the 43.

- Recoil, handling and follow up shots all favor the 42. It is very noticeable shooting them back to back. I always feel like I have to mention this when talking about recoil... I can handle recoil. I'll brag a little and say nobody I have ever gone shooting with could handle a Ruger Super Blackhawk .44 mag as well as I can. I've shot +P .357 mag loads out of a Ruger SP101 and I could handle the recoil and hit with it just fine. The reality is that I can reacquire my sites faster the less recoil there is from the gun. Quick follow up shots are always more accurate and faster the less recoil you are dealing with, and everything I have read says that shot placement is more important than caliber size (this also seems fairly obvious.) If I were to use a .357 magnum revolver for home defense I would load it with .38 specials for these reasons. If I were to use a .44 magnum for self defense I would load it with .44 specials for these reasons.

- Another aspect regarding recoil... heavy recoil can be fun for a few rounds, but it isn't fun (for me) when I'm shooting for a long period of time. I've been shooting with my buddy every Saturday for months now, and this looks to be a long term thing. I have plans to set up a range on my own property (once I actually purchase said property.) Anyway, we generally shoot for 2 to 3 hours at a time. If the weather is nicer we have been shooting for up to 5 hours. I'm not shooting anything that is snappy for 2 hours (yes, the Glock 43 is snappy), and I want to have as much practice with my carry gun as possible. So for me, less recoil = more practice.

- I have every confidence that the .380 is enough bullet to stop an attacker, even a 300 pound raging Old Spice on meth... and I could see that happening spinning smiley sticking its tongue out

- I see one advantage of the 9mm over the 380acp, and thus one advantage of the 43 over the 42... cost. 9mm is just a lot cheaper than .380. I basically wait until I find .380 on sale and buy a bunch of it. This is fine and all, but 9mm on sale is cheaper still. I plan on reloading eventually.


OK, with all that being said I think I might have to buy a 43 if it could shoot both .380 and 9mm from it. I love versatility, and I really like the idea of being able to shoot multiple calibers from the same gun. However, I think I would still carry the 42 over the 43, even if I could load the 43 with .380. It goes back to the size and weight advantage of the 42.

What would be more interesting to me is a Glock 15 or 17 with the ability to shoot .380 as well as 9mm.


Chumgeyser on Youtube
E-nep throwing Brotherhood. Charter Member
Re: Firearms and Shooting
August 08, 2016 01:35AM
Chum: Here be the video I mentioned

video: [www.full30.com]

I'm sure detail stripping one would be a fun weekend project. spinning smiley sticking its tongue out

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Bill22252 on YouTube. "See you space cowboy"

Resident Emerson Fanboi

Folding knives are fun, fixed blades are important.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/08/2016 01:35AM by Bugout Bill.
Re: Firearms and Shooting
August 08, 2016 01:58AM
Chum- thanks for the detailed and thoughtful analysis. Are you thinking single stack or double stack for your 9mm?

I hear you on the price (and availability at times) of .380. There are times it is higher prices than 40, 45 and on par with 10mm.... Absurd.

I don't quite share you confidence in the dimunitive round, but for days I can't carrry (wont make the wardrobe sacrifice) a bigger gun, my LCP continues to serve me very well. I am still considering adding the maggut floor plate and spring for an extra round.
Re: Firearms and Shooting
August 09, 2016 10:51PM
This YouTube reviewer just posted a video that echoes you, but his experience with reliability is very different.
video: [youtu.be]

Frankly, I was shocked to see the number of failure to feeds he has, from a Glock no less.
Re: Firearms and Shooting
August 10, 2016 02:32AM
Quote
chad234
This YouTube reviewer just posted a video that echoes you, but his experience with reliability is very different.
video: [youtu.be]

Frankly, I was shocked to see the number of failure to feeds he has, from a Glock no less.

He says the .380 is inherently more unreliable than the 9mm because it is a less powerful round. As long as the bullet has the energy to rack the slide back there shouldn't be any issues. It doesn't matter what kind of bullet you shoot out of a Glock, if you limp wrist it it is likely to malfunction.

He is worried about penetration so he is using that screwy Lehigh defense Xtreme Penetrator round. Look at any penetration tests of the .380 using ball ammo. If anything the .380 way over penetrates in all situations. Why use a funky bullet with know feeding issues?

Notice he has an aftermarket frame color. Maybe that has something to do with the feeding issues. Not the color, but something that was done to the gun in the process.

Thousands of rounds have been shot out of my Glock 42, and my friends Glock 42. We have used probably 12 different kinds of ammo. There has been only one issue. There was a single stovepipe incident and that was with the aftermarket magazine extension on it.


Chumgeyser on Youtube
E-nep throwing Brotherhood. Charter Member
Re: Firearms and Shooting
August 10, 2016 07:11AM
Those are all very good points. The inherently less reliable claim is one I've not heard before, I assume Glock uses a lighter recoil spring in the G42 than the 9mm pistols and the thinner slide is lighter. He didn't mention what ammo he had the FTF with but I assumed it was ball training ammo, nut the expensive penatrator....

Did he appear to be limp wristing during the malfunctioning on the video? I wonder if his coating the frame voids the warranty? Otherwise I would send an unreliable Glock back for examination by a factory armorer.

I've heard good things about the Gcode Incognito holsters he uses, but have not seen any in the wild.

I watched a few of his other videos, generally good content and certainly a competent shooter but his titles run to the hyperbolic. No doubt to attract views.

You can certianly see a strong TNP influence in the substance and style of his videos.
Re: Firearms and Shooting
August 10, 2016 08:56AM
Quote
chad234
Did he appear to be limp wristing during the malfunctioning on the video? I wonder if his coating the frame voids the warranty? Otherwise I would send an unreliable Glock back for examination by a factory armorer.

No, he didn't appear to be limp wristing the gun, but it is hard to tell from the video. I will say that any low-recoil handgun will be easier to limp-wrist because you won't be as concerned about locking your wrist and keeping a tight grip. Shoot a .22 back-to-back with a high energy handgun caliber and I think you will see what I mean. The Glock 42 is a low-recoil handgun.

I also don't doubt that earlier models of the G42 had issues. There are many reports of feeding issues. I have also heard that Glock has since fixed these issues. I don't know if any of this is true, but I can comment from my own experience. So far my Glock 42, and my friends Glock 42, have been on the extreme end of reliable. One stovepipe out of thousands of rounds, and again that was with the aftermarket mag extensions (which give you a loosened spring on the last rounds.)

Chad, are you considering getting either the G42 or G43?


Chumgeyser on Youtube
E-nep throwing Brotherhood. Charter Member
Re: Firearms and Shooting
August 10, 2016 09:05AM
Quote
Bugout Bill
Chum: Here be the video I mentioned

video: [www.full30.com]

I'm sure detail stripping one would be a fun weekend project. spinning smiley sticking its tongue out

Sorry I missed this Bill. That was an interesting video. I have to say that I wish my Luger was that reliable. I have said this before, but in case it was missed, I don't own an original Luger. Mine is a replica by Mitchell Arms. Supposedly it is true to the original. I have to say that the jamming is the only thing I have an issue with... well, and the sights, which are a little hard to see. Otherwise it is very, very, accurate. Some of my best groups were made with this gun. It also has very little recoil, and it looks good imho.


Chumgeyser on Youtube
E-nep throwing Brotherhood. Charter Member
Re: Firearms and Shooting
August 10, 2016 02:10PM
Chum- I eventually will pick up a G43. Every time I rent one at the range, I come away liking my Shield more than the G43. But the G43 is slightly lighter (3 ounces) than the Shield, so for a winter concealed carry on work days that may provide an advantage. I would rather have a G43 than the LCP on me if I needed it, and right now the vast majority of days at work it is the LCP in pocket carry. In the winter, I often wear a sweater vest or sport coat. So having a cover garment allows me to use IWB over pocket carry, and thus I can go a bit bigger.
Re: Firearms and Shooting
August 10, 2016 03:59PM
Chad, have you rented a G42? I'd be interested to know how you think it compares to the LCP and the G43.


Chumgeyser on Youtube
E-nep throwing Brotherhood. Charter Member
Re: Firearms and Shooting
August 14, 2016 09:40PM
I have not, but will. I have shot the 43 several times but never had an interest in the 42 until your posts.
Re: Firearms and Shooting
August 15, 2016 12:27AM
Hey Chad, what do you like about the Shield over the Glock 43? I'm simply curious.
Re: Firearms and Shooting
August 16, 2016 04:19PM
Ryan- that I prefer the Shield surprises me as well. When I was looking to buy a single stack 9, I assumed the G43 would be my choice based on my experience with my other Glocks. The reasons are entirely subjective- the Shield feels and shoots better in my hand. Don't get me wrong, the G43 is definitely a good gun. The Shield is just gooder for me.

The Shield shoots like a bigger gun than it is, very close to my G19. The G43 shoots like a concealment piece. But the G43 is also a range rental with bare polymer grip and stock plastic sights. I like neither. The Shield is set up near optimally for me.

I've learned that small changes can make a big difference in ergonomics. For example, aside from the grip angle, I never cared for feel of the Springfield XD line. Then I was at the range and the guy next to me wanted to try my G20 10mm, so I shot his XDM with the large backstrap and grip taped. It shot great, just great. Better trigger than any stock polymer striker fire gun I had shot in the past. It was an excellent point shooter at close range. It was also a noticeably soft shooter than a G19.

So having little impulse control, I bought one. (Although it stopped me from buying the Smith M&P22 I planned on buying that day). I installed the large backstrap and a talon grip and it feels great in my hand. The trigger on mine is not quite as nice as the one I shot in dry firing it, but it has not been broken in yet and is still far nicer than a stock Glock trigger. The sights are better than the Glock sights, for sure, but I am still thinking of replacing them with XS sights.....

The Talon grip is much easier to install than the Brooks Agrip as the cutouts are very tightly fitted with no trimming required, it finishes bonding through heat and there is not a real problem with wrinkles. I did miss it by a mm or so, but it works great. I prefer Agrip for close body carry, but for a range/training gun prefer the rubber Talon grip. I did not get a chance to shoot it before I left for vacation, but look forward to doing so when I get back. It is a little heavier than a G17, but allows for a higher grip for me and also packs 19+1 rounds.




Re: Firearms and Shooting
August 17, 2016 08:26PM
That last picture of the XD9... almost looks like a sci-fi raygun.


Chumgeyser on Youtube
E-nep throwing Brotherhood. Charter Member
Re: Firearms and Shooting
August 17, 2016 10:53PM
Always liked the XD series, particularly the XDM, though it is irritating the XD and XDM mags aren't interchangeable.

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Bill22252 on YouTube. "See you space cowboy"

Resident Emerson Fanboi

Folding knives are fun, fixed blades are important.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/17/2016 11:44PM by Bugout Bill.
Re: Firearms and Shooting
August 18, 2016 12:53AM
Bill,
That bothered me also. They are nice guns with great features.

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Re: Firearms and Shooting
August 18, 2016 12:49PM
So how many of us here have a dummy/airsoft/blue gun version of our carry gun for draw practice and such?
Just wondering if it is a common practice.
Re: Firearms and Shooting
August 18, 2016 01:47PM
It is surprising that they can fit 19 rounds into the XDM magazine and keep the grip as thin as it is with the small back strap. I think CZ makes a model with similar capacity.

I look forward to seeing how it shoots. Sometimes a gun that feels good in the hand static has some issues under dynamic conditions.

I use snap caps for draw and dry fire practice. I've used blue guns for retention/disarm drills when I was a LEO but not as a civilian.

What advantage do you see to a training gun over snap caps?

Anyone using a shot timer? I plan on picking one up as I have some drills that require one. In the meantime I downloaded an app for my iPhone that I hope suffices.
Re: Firearms and Shooting
August 18, 2016 07:16PM
Terri,
I used to have a Crossman version of my carry gum, but it was stolen.

"I am still discussing issues of steels and performance at this stage." -- Cliff Stamp, May his memory be a blessing
"Life is GOOD", -- Stefan_Wolf, May His Memory Be A Blessing
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Re: Firearms and Shooting
August 18, 2016 08:07PM
I use snap caps Terri. I dry fire my revolvers a lot as a way of wearing all the internals in. It's helped quite a bit, especially on the GP100.
Re: Firearms and Shooting
August 21, 2016 12:33AM
It starts:



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Bill22252 on YouTube. "See you space cowboy"

Resident Emerson Fanboi

Folding knives are fun, fixed blades are important.
Re: Firearms and Shooting
August 21, 2016 03:25AM
Is that not finished? Looks like it's been finished for 70 years.

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