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Firearms and Shooting

Posted by Bugout Bill 
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Re: Firearms and Shooting
January 11, 2017 04:40AM
Nate: They are stunners, both engraved and not. Gosh, I miss the days when companies sold factory engraved stuff.

I'll prolly take some oxpho-blue to it and touch it up. That being said, bluing is a terrible working finish for firearms. Bead blast stainless is the king for me, but any working firearm should have parkerizing or nitride, in my humble opinion. If you wanted color, cerakote seems to be quite good, but nitride or parkerize is probably the best base finish for a gun that isn't being used in a marine environment.

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Bill22252 on YouTube. "See you space cowboy"

Resident Emerson Fanboi

Folding knives are fun, fixed blades are important.
Re: Firearms and Shooting
January 11, 2017 03:16PM
I hear you on the cost, I have a pair of Sigs I want to done in Robar's NP3 with new springs and sights installed and a few other goodies. The cost would be more than buying new pistols. Having no "need" to do so right now, I'll have to wait until I feel like rewarding myself for something or another.
Re: Firearms and Shooting
January 11, 2017 04:30PM
How do you think the Star compares to a Sig P938. While not too popular in the decades they were being used abroad, they can been seen as ahead of their time. While using a 100 year old basic design. Now part of that is 9mm ammo improvements, but a lot is also the time it took for capacity lust to die down a bit, do you think?
Re: Firearms and Shooting
January 11, 2017 05:57PM
Chad: Honestly, Star made a lot of really positive changes to the M1911 platform. I would say that the BM isn't comparable to the 938, it is more of a slightly more compact Commander style gun.

Mechanically, they are very disimilar, but the changes are positive. The remove of the grip safety, external extractor, captive recoil spring, and quick takedown are all changes that should have been made to the place. That being said, the market never would have wanted it. M1911 goofs are rather intolerant of change.

Finances not an issue, I'd love to get another BM and totally tear it down; rebuild the mags with modern baseplates, put good combat sights on it, ect. It would be a sweet gun.

I have no issues with 9mm, particularly in an M1911. No recoil and higher capacity than a .45. I'd always rather have more rounds (I use Mec-Gar 18 rd mags in my CZ), but for a single stack 9 rds is still more than 7.

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Bill22252 on YouTube. "See you space cowboy"

Resident Emerson Fanboi

Folding knives are fun, fixed blades are important.
Re: Firearms and Shooting
January 11, 2017 08:13PM
Bill, if you do want it refinished then you may want check out Turnbull:

[www.turnbullmfg.com]
Re: Firearms and Shooting
January 12, 2017 04:23AM
Ryan: Turnbull does amazing work. If this gun had any value, they would be the ones I'd call. It don't, so I will probably spot blue it myself.

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Bill22252 on YouTube. "See you space cowboy"

Resident Emerson Fanboi

Folding knives are fun, fixed blades are important.
Re: Firearms and Shooting
January 12, 2017 06:12PM
Chad: Speaking of ahead of it's time, the Llama IIIA-Micromax series was really interesting.

[picturearchive.gunauction.com]

A baby, .380 M1911.

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Bill22252 on YouTube. "See you space cowboy"

Resident Emerson Fanboi

Folding knives are fun, fixed blades are important.
Re: Firearms and Shooting
January 13, 2017 01:07AM
I get my CZ P-09, from Cajun Gun Works, tomorrow. If all goes well I will get a long shooting session with it on Saturday.

The gunsmith who worked on my CZ said he likes to hear feedback. I told him I will be comparing it to my friend's new, stock, P-09 and the gunsmith got all excited. He said he'd love to hear how they compare, and he said he lives to put together guns that work as well as the one he is sending me. Pretty bold words since I can be a harsh critic... but he doesn't know that.

Can't wait to go shooting this weekend!!!


Chumgeyser on Youtube
E-nep throwing Brotherhood. Charter Member
Re: Firearms and Shooting
January 13, 2017 01:09AM
On the Star pistols. I remember reading about those a long time ago. I think Massad Ayoob wrote an article on those guns and I recall that he really liked them.


Chumgeyser on Youtube
E-nep throwing Brotherhood. Charter Member
Re: Firearms and Shooting
January 13, 2017 01:23AM
Sweet! Hope the weather cooperates and you get some serious trigger time. What kind of ammo did you line up? Are you going to carry this gun? Are holsters readily available?
Got another giant target board assembled?
Re: Firearms and Shooting
January 13, 2017 02:02AM
Quote
chad234
Sweet! Hope the weather cooperates and you get some serious trigger time. What kind of ammo did you line up? Are you going to carry this gun? Are holsters readily available?
Got another giant target board assembled?

The weather should be perfect. Cool, but not freezing, blue skies and sun.

I have thousands of rounds of Winchester White Box ready to go just for the CZ.

I may end up carrying this gun. It depends on how comfortable I can make it.

There are very few holsters available for the CZ P-09. I don't think there are any that are both specifically made for this gun AND accommodates the Streamline TLR-2. There is, however, a new holster from Blackhawk that I will most likely purchase. It is called the Omnivore. It is made to fit most pistols that have a rail, or that take a specific Surefire light, or that take the Streamlight TLR-1 or TLR-2. I'll get the Streamlight version.

My buddy has a full target stand ready to go.

Can't freaking wait!


Chumgeyser on Youtube
E-nep throwing Brotherhood. Charter Member
Re: Firearms and Shooting
January 13, 2017 10:54PM
Quote
Bugout Bill
Chum: With a red dot, you do not have to worry about having a correct cheek weld or be at the correct eye relief for the optic to work.

Bill is spot on, of course. With a 1-6 scope you have a couple inches of eye relief. With the red dot, you can literally move feet away from the optical and still get a sight picture as I tried to demonstrate with these one handed pics below. And that flexibility results in speed. Faster shot placement. However, a scope like the PA that you linked with an etched and illuminated reticle can be used as a regular scope even if the battery dies.







I was on a business road trip last week, the Shield was a perfect companion in Galco's excellent Maimi Classic. I had a spare Foxtrot kydex IWB in my bag, but for this gun the grab and go shoulder holster with extra ammonia on board and its slim profile make it my preferred choice. Especially for long drives, I think the shoulder holster is unappreciated by many gun carriers.

Chum- have you considered the Miami Light (the thinner, lighter version) for your G42, for concealing under a shirt?
Re: Firearms and Shooting
January 14, 2017 02:09AM
Quote
chad234
Quote
Bugout Bill
Chum: With a red dot, you do not have to worry about having a correct cheek weld or be at the correct eye relief for the optic to work.

Bill is spot on, of course. With a 1-6 scope you have a couple inches of eye relief. With the red dot, you can literally move feet away from the optical and still get a sight picture as I tried to demonstrate with these one handed pics below. And that flexibility results in speed. Faster shot placement. However, a scope like the PA that you linked with an etched and illuminated reticle can be used as a regular scope even if the battery dies.

Since Bill had given me this bit of info (much appreciated Bill) I have been going some internets sleuthing on the subject. Here is what little I have found out thus far...

- Ideally a 1X scope should have unlimited eye relief, just as a red dot does.
- Some disagree and say that due to the center lens (required in a magnified scope) this will always disallow unlimited eye relief, although the gap is getting narrow.
- Certain 1X scopes have very near unlimited eye relief when in the 1X magnification. Once you increase the magnification on said scope you reduce the eye relief.

I'm looking more into this and will report any interesting findings here.

Quote
chad234
I was on a business road trip last week, the Shield was a perfect companion in Galco's excellent Maimi Classic. I had a spare Foxtrot kydex IWB in my bag, but for this gun the grab and go shoulder holster with extra ammonia on board and its slim profile make it my preferred choice. Especially for long drives, I think the shoulder holster is unappreciated by many gun carriers.

Chum- have you considered the Miami Light (the thinner, lighter version) for your G42, for concealing under a shirt?

Yes, I have considered the Miami Light. I very much like the idea of shoulder holsters, but my dealings with them haven't been very positive. I have tried on two different shoulder holsters (long ago) and both were very uncomfortable. These were cheapo nylon deals, and I have heard many people claim that their can be a big difference in comfort from one shoulder holster to the next. I am willing to give another one a try. They seem ideal when you are sitting.

The G42 in a comfortable shoulder holster sounds like a great EDC combo.


Chumgeyser on Youtube
E-nep throwing Brotherhood. Charter Member
Re: Firearms and Shooting
January 14, 2017 02:50AM
Chum:

[www.chuckhawks.com]

You won't regret it... the finger smiley
Re: Firearms and Shooting
January 14, 2017 07:20PM
Quote
Ryan Nafe
Chum:

[www.chuckhawks.com]

You won't regret it... the finger smiley

I both like and dislike the idea of a fixed magnification scope, mostly like. It should be more durable because it is a more simple mechanism, correct? I'm just not sure if 2.5X is enough magnification for a rifle... for me.

I might give one a try though. The price is right, I like the Leupold, and it seems like it would be a good choice for something like a 10/22. Or something like this (which I just stumbled across and think is awesome) ...






Chumgeyser on Youtube
E-nep throwing Brotherhood. Charter Member
Re: Firearms and Shooting
January 14, 2017 07:47PM
Chum: Something to keep in mind: a lot of post WWII combat sights designed for mass issue were either 1.5-2x or 4x scopes. Considering that most people will struggle to see a man sized target at +150 yds (let alone a drab colored one), some magnification is going to help tremendously.

In regards to fixed vs variable power, InrangeTV did a good review video of the Vortex Strike Eagle, one of the things that really stood out was that both of the shooters commented that they pretty much just set the scope to either 2.5 or 4x and just kept it there.

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Bill22252 on YouTube. "See you space cowboy"

Resident Emerson Fanboi

Folding knives are fun, fixed blades are important.
Re: Firearms and Shooting
January 15, 2017 12:27AM
Quote
Bugout Bill
...both of the shooters commented that they pretty much just set the scope to either 2.5 or 4x and just kept it there.

This is precisely why I see no need for a variable power scope on most rifles. All I did with my 3-9 was set it at 4x, so all the weight and bulk was completely pointless.

Just think realistically about the ranges you'll be shooting at and pick a level of magnification that gives you the ability to make precise shots to specific parts of the anatomy (a squirrel's head for example) while still allowing a wide enough field of view to be able to quickly get on target and also track moving targets. The only reason I can see for having a variable is if you really do need/want one rifle for all things, and you actually do use if for a wide variety of different ranges/species. I just don't really do that, I have rifles that fill very specific roles. Two of them don't even have scopes, though the one (Savage Mark 1 G) really needs one. It'd be really nice for squirrels and rabbits.

I had seriously considered that Leupold 2.5x20, but I went with the 4x33 instead (still hasn't arrived from Leupold yet). The 2.5x20 would have been nice, but I need more magnification because of the amount of branches in the woods. I don't take shots at animals unless I'm confident that I'll make a clean hit, the 4x provides enough power to make it easy to see even small (~1/8" ) branches from quite a ways out. If I was in the same environment but always at 50 yards or less, I'd have went with the 2.5x hands down.

Yeah Chum, the fixed power scopes are technically more durable than variables, but I think it's not a real big difference nowadays because most decent scopes seem to be plenty durable. In the early days of scopes, the difference in durability and holding the zero was much greater.

If I was to put an optic on an AR that was intended for plinking or combat, I'd pick that 2.5x20 for a few reasons:

- Really long eye relief.
- Enough magnification for shooting human-size targets to 200 yards with ease (seems like a 90 yard shot and you've got the aid of crosshairs vs. irons), while having a wide enough field of view to make close range or moving targets still easy to hit.
- Much greater precision, especially at long range, than a 1x red dot because of the crosshairs. The crosshairs usually also subtend less of the target.
- Very light weight. It doesn't raise the center of gravity too much, and keeps the whole package as light as possible. Almost always a plus.


Also, I tend to think of magnification in terms of my effective range with iron sights. If I can easily and repeated make accurate hits on a soup can at 25 yards with iron sights, then it should be just as easy or easier to use a 4x scope to shoot a soup can at 100 yards, or a 2.2x scope at 55 yards.

Chum, that CZ is a handsome rifle, it would be really nice for varmints, people, or coyotes. Or just range shooting.
Re: Firearms and Shooting
January 15, 2017 01:47AM
This is kinda nuts:

[www.coldsteel.com]
Re: Firearms and Shooting
January 15, 2017 04:35PM
Ryan: I got a friend that will eat that up. He is one of those that enjoys buying cheap things.

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Bill22252 on YouTube. "See you space cowboy"

Resident Emerson Fanboi

Folding knives are fun, fixed blades are important.
Re: Firearms and Shooting
January 16, 2017 06:31PM
I went shooting this Saturday, unfortunately it was so cold that after awhile we couldn't load the damn magazines because our fingers were freezing.

I do have some info to report on the CZ P09 Cajun Gunworks Edition vs a stock P09 and a Walther Q5, however I'm going to have to shoot these again in some warmer weather. I was barely able to shoot more than 50 round in each gun.

I had two failures to fire on the CZ P09 CGW. It was on the second and fourth shots I ever took with the gun. After that I had no issues.

Accuracy was on par with the stock CZ, and possible slightly less than the Q5, however my hands were nearly frozen and had never shot the CGW CZ before. I also shot the CGW CZ first. I could feel my hands warm up a bit as I was shooting and I do think the Q5 benefitted from being the last pistol shot. Regardless, I put up decent groups with all three guns all shooting the same ammo. I'll try get some pictures posted later.

There is no doubt that trigger is lighter and smoother, both single and double action, on the CZ CGW P09 vs the stock P09. The single action pull on the CZ CGW is lighter and smoother than the striker fired action on the Walther Q5.

I noticed slightly less recoil in the CZ CGW vs the stock CZ P09, and both have noticeably less recoil than the Walther Q5. Perhaps this is due to the much heavier guide rod in the CGW pistol.

Anyway, this test was compromised by the weather.


Chumgeyser on Youtube
E-nep throwing Brotherhood. Charter Member
Re: Firearms and Shooting
January 20, 2017 08:31PM
Army Picks Sig Sauer's P320 Handgun to Replace M9 Service Pistol

-Interesting. When do all the cheap surplus M9's go on sale? grinning smiley

-Nate
Re: Firearms and Shooting
January 20, 2017 08:56PM
My cousin is a 2111 (armorer) in the Marines and has told me that the M9's are almost universally disliked and are far and away the most frequently damaged weapons on the base. He repairs more of them than any other gun in use.
Re: Firearms and Shooting
January 20, 2017 09:54PM
Hmmm, I've always like the looks of the 92 series, but haven't ever owned or shot one.

I guess I'd need to research the issues more. I'm a little skeptical about them being garbage, but I also don't really have a need for another 9mm. If I were to pick one up down the line it would just be to have another curio/plinker.

-Nate
Re: Firearms and Shooting
January 20, 2017 10:22PM
Quote
Ryan Nafe
My cousin is a 2111 (armorer) in the Marines and has told me that the M9's are almost universally disliked and are far and away the most frequently damaged weapons on the base. He repairs more of them than any other gun in use.

Interesting. There is a lot of hype regarding the durability of the M9.


Chumgeyser on Youtube
E-nep throwing Brotherhood. Charter Member
Re: Firearms and Shooting
January 20, 2017 10:53PM
Quote
Nate T
Hmmm, I've always like the looks of the 92 series, but haven't ever owned or shot one.

Same here. I think they're beautiful guns, particularly the Inox models.

For most people, the durability isn't really a significant issue because most people just shoot for fun and parts aren't very expensive. If you want a gun for defense or combat, the solution is just to buy a Glock in whatever caliber and size you need.
Re: Firearms and Shooting
January 20, 2017 11:12PM
From what I have heard about the M9:

-There were issues with the initial models having slide failures...with SEAL teams, who were shooting them way, way more than any other branches were, Beretta rectified the issue.

-A lot of the service guns are old and may not have had as routine of maintenance as other guns.

-The US government got screwed by a contractor with the mags for the guns in the early 2000s, leading to a lot of reliability problems.

-Just because the DOD issues you the gun doesn't mean they care if they are maintained or you are trained how to use them. I have heard horror stories of units receiving M14s in Iraq and Afghanistan (this goes back to '91) because "we have to issue DMRs" that arrived in poor condition, with no or few mags, no armorer manuals, that either went unused or were put into service only due to the tenacity of personnel in getting them operational.

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Bill22252 on YouTube. "See you space cowboy"

Resident Emerson Fanboi

Folding knives are fun, fixed blades are important.
Re: Firearms and Shooting
January 20, 2017 11:31PM
Chum's gun factoid of the day!

500 Rounds of .22lr = ~4 lbs.
500 Rounds of .223 - ~14 lbs.


Chumgeyser on Youtube
E-nep throwing Brotherhood. Charter Member
Re: Firearms and Shooting
January 20, 2017 11:47PM
Thanks for the color Bill.

Not quite the M9 or the FS, but Southernohiogun.com has some really nice (and cheap) 92S imports that I considered before I splurged for the deal on the P220. They have the euro mag release and non-ambi safety though, not deal breakers for a fun gun, but not ideal either.

Quote
Ryan Nafe
If you want a gun for defense or combat, the solution is just to buy a Glock in whatever caliber and size you need.

I wonder how the Army's choice of the Sig P320 platform will be viewed in 5yrs. I hadn't heard of the 320 or the Modular Handgun System (MHS) program before my buddy told me about the announcement.

-Nate



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/20/2017 11:49PM by Nate T.
Re: Firearms and Shooting
January 21, 2017 12:24AM
Hmm...






Chumgeyser on Youtube
E-nep throwing Brotherhood. Charter Member
Re: Firearms and Shooting
January 21, 2017 12:54AM
The MHS is rather pointless, as military sidearms rank pretty low on the totem pole. The people who use them for a living (USSOCOM) ain't gonna be using the MHS.

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Bill22252 on YouTube. "See you space cowboy"

Resident Emerson Fanboi

Folding knives are fun, fixed blades are important.