Welcome! Log In Create A New Profile

Advanced

Firearms and Shooting

Posted by Bugout Bill 
This forum is currently read only. You can not log in or make any changes. This is a temporary situation.
Re: Firearms and Shooting
January 28, 2017 01:28AM
Chad: All the best with the sick loved one.

The Star is really an orange to the Glock or Shield's apple. Doesn't compare. Much heavier, very different trigger. More of a compact service handgun than a easy carry piece.

I prefer steel framed guns as a whole. I'd rather deal with the inconvenience of carrying one when the trade off is less recoil, faster follow up shots, and higher accuracy.

Honestly, I preferred the ergos and sight picture of the R51 to a stock Glock 19 or Shield.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Bill22252 on YouTube. "See you space cowboy"

Resident Emerson Fanboi

Folding knives are fun, fixed blades are important.
Re: Firearms and Shooting
January 28, 2017 04:47AM
Hope things get better chad.


Quote
chad234
In cool, dry range practice with no stress, there is no difference in control and the few hundred rounds I fired were effortless through both. I think the rubberized grips are a bit more comfortable. But the real advantage to the rubber grips is with sweaty hands in the heat of summer, the stress of competition or worst case a serious social situation.

I will be sure to consider this this summer. I tend to prefer a grip that is smoother than it is rough or tacky.


Chumgeyser on Youtube
E-nep throwing Brotherhood. Charter Member
Re: Firearms and Shooting
January 28, 2017 03:20PM
Quote
Bill
I prefer steel framed guns as a whole. I'd rather deal with the inconvenience of carrying one when the trade off is less recoil, faster follow up shots, and higher accuracy.

Makes a lot of sense. No doubt a steel frame 9mm will last generations and easily handle 100k rounds.
Re: Firearms and Shooting
January 28, 2017 07:23PM
Quote
chad234
Quote
Bill
I prefer steel framed guns as a whole. I'd rather deal with the inconvenience of carrying one when the trade off is less recoil, faster follow up shots, and higher accuracy.

Makes a lot of sense. No doubt a steel frame 9mm will last generations and easily handle 100k rounds.

I prefer steel framed guns over polymer. I also like the alloy frames. Too much weight, however, and I won't carry the gun.

Reliability, durability and longevity are three traits that I prize most in a gun. Accuracy is important as well spinning smiley sticking its tongue out Lately the gun I've had the biggest jones for happens to be a steel framed gun that nails all of these traits...




Chumgeyser on Youtube
E-nep throwing Brotherhood. Charter Member
Re: Firearms and Shooting
January 28, 2017 07:26PM
Chum, LifeSizePotato on YouTube has a review of that gun and several other revolvers. His channel is great
Re: Firearms and Shooting
January 28, 2017 08:40PM
Quote
Ryan Nafe
Chum, LifeSizePotato on YouTube has a review of that gun and several other revolvers. His channel is great

Yes, I'm a fan of his channel. He has the best collection of guns I have seen on YT.


Chumgeyser on Youtube
E-nep throwing Brotherhood. Charter Member
Re: Firearms and Shooting
January 28, 2017 09:57PM
Yeah they're all so interesting, I like that he has a lot of obscure and weird ones. It's fun to watch.
Re: Firearms and Shooting
January 29, 2017 12:13AM
I see no durability advantage for steel frame guns over polymer framed. Glocks will last over a 100,000 rounds. I own several semi-auto's with an aluminum frame and I always worry about frame damage. I had a Beretta 92 that showed frame wear where the recoil guide impinges on the aluminum frame. This happened well before I had shot 500 rounds. I have seen aluminum framed Colt Commanders with wear in the same area. I also used to own a Smith & Wesson 642 LIGHTWEIGHT that shot loose in under 200 rounds of standard pressure ammo, not +P. I have not had a problem with my Sig aluminum framed semi-autos, but I haven't shot them extensively.
That being said, I edc a Ruger LCR, a polymer and aluminum framed revolver. No problems so far.
Re: Firearms and Shooting
January 29, 2017 03:15AM
Quote
curmudgeon
I see no durability advantage for steel frame guns over polymer framed.

I have heard this debated before, and you may be correct curmudgeon. I think the design of the determines where you will see wear. Polymer has the advantage of greater flexibility. Steel should give you greater strength and toughness however, correct?

It would be interesting to steel how an all steel Glock would wear down compared to a standard Glock.

The Manhurin M73 is all steel and may be the most durable handgun there is.


Chumgeyser on Youtube
E-nep throwing Brotherhood. Charter Member
Re: Firearms and Shooting
January 29, 2017 04:45AM
Chum: The slide on a polymer gun is still riding on steel rails. An alloy frame gun is riding on alloy. Alloy is going to wear more.

Durability isn't the draw for me, the fact they shoot better is what I prefer.

The MR73 is a testament to engineering. Great gun by all accounts.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Bill22252 on YouTube. "See you space cowboy"

Resident Emerson Fanboi

Folding knives are fun, fixed blades are important.
Re: Firearms and Shooting
January 29, 2017 02:59PM
I've never seen a MR73 but recall a G&A article in the 80's extolling them. Build quality, accuracy, and durability were the hallmarks of this revolver. With a minimum duty cycle of a million rounds, I can't imagine a more durable gun. If I was a revolver guy, I would want one badly.
Re: Firearms and Shooting
January 29, 2017 05:59PM
Quote
chad234
I've never seen a MR73 but recall a G&A article in the 80's extolling them. Build quality, accuracy, and durability were the hallmarks of this revolver. With a minimum duty cycle of a million rounds, I can't imagine a more durable gun. If I was a revolver guy, I would want one badly.

I want one very badly, but man are they expensive... if you can even find a seller. Apparently each gun is made to order and each order currently takes a year or more to fulfill.

I did find a seller who has a deal with the company. He places several orders at once, and he has MR73s available every few months, randomly. $3000.


Chumgeyser on Youtube
E-nep throwing Brotherhood. Charter Member
Re: Firearms and Shooting
January 29, 2017 06:49PM
Chum: You sure those aren't Korth?

There are a couple on gunbroker for north of 1K. Classic Firearms had a couple at one point for $600

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Bill22252 on YouTube. "See you space cowboy"

Resident Emerson Fanboi

Folding knives are fun, fixed blades are important.
Re: Firearms and Shooting
January 29, 2017 07:32PM
Nah Bill they're French made, but the Korth is a decent alternative. Personally I've wanted a Korth Combat since I found out about them in one of my gun books back in high school. They're quite expensive though, like the Manurhin. LifeSizePotato really does have a freakin sweet collection of guns.
Re: Firearms and Shooting
January 29, 2017 07:52PM
Ryan: Yeah, I was just commenting that if someone was asking 3k for a MR73, you were getting taken for a ride, unless it was minty factory fresh.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Bill22252 on YouTube. "See you space cowboy"

Resident Emerson Fanboi

Folding knives are fun, fixed blades are important.
Re: Firearms and Shooting
January 29, 2017 08:25PM
$1500-2000 Glocks from Zev and other top tier shops seem to be selling like hotcakes. If I was a revolver guy, or wanted a .357 to pair with a carbine, I'd much rather spend that money on a MR73 to hand down to my grandkids (assuming firearm freedom is still respected).
Re: Firearms and Shooting
January 29, 2017 09:11PM
Now I'm with ya Bill, I see what you're saying.
Re: Firearms and Shooting
January 29, 2017 11:57PM
Chad: As for the custom Glock fans, I'm sure P.T. Barnum would have loved them.

Changing the sights, a stipple job, a trigger tuning, and some slide milling does not make a custom firearm. Now a Wilson Combat $4k M1911? That is a custom firearm.

End of the day, however, unless one is paid to use them and puts thousands of rounds through them, both a "custom" Glock and a custom M1911 more or less serve as a ruler for people to compare their nether regions.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Bill22252 on YouTube. "See you space cowboy"

Resident Emerson Fanboi

Folding knives are fun, fixed blades are important.
Re: Firearms and Shooting
January 30, 2017 12:13AM
I don't really see the point of custom Glocks either. I just see a Glock as being a basic tool that's meant to perform a specific task, which is to go boom every time and be very simple to use and maintain. If I wanted something fancy I would just get an entirely different gun. Personally, I'd get something from Hamilton Bowen if I wanted a custom handgun. That guy really knows how to make a revolver.
Re: Firearms and Shooting
January 30, 2017 03:02AM
Quote
chad234
If I was a revolver guy, or wanted a .357 to pair with a carbine, I'd much rather spend that money on a MR73 to hand down to my grandkids (assuming firearm freedom is still respected).

Great minds think alike spinning smiley sticking its tongue out

Bill, from what info I can find on Korth and Manhurins, it does seem that Manhurin makes the more durable gun and possibly the more accurate of the two.

I can get an 8 shot, 9mm revolver from S&W for around $1000. As much as I like the Manhurin I'm not sure it is worth it, to me personally, to pay the extra fro the Manhurin.

I am looking for the ultimate cowboy combo (ie. handgun and carbine that take the same ammo.) The easiest way is to go with a 9mm sidearm and a 9mm carbine. However, there are several advantages of a .357 revolver/carbine combo. The more I look into ballistics I'm really liking the idea of a suppressed carbine in .357. You could fire extremely quiet 38 special rounds, and with a 16 inch barrel the .357 starts to look like an actually rifle round. I'm all about a super accurate .357 magnum revolver that I could pair with the carbine, and it would be a lot of fun at the range. Ultimately I am a little more partial to revolvers than semi-autos. I like both however.


Chumgeyser on Youtube
E-nep throwing Brotherhood. Charter Member
Re: Firearms and Shooting
January 30, 2017 03:20AM
Quote
Bugout Bill
Ryan: Yeah, I was just commenting that if someone was asking 3k for a MR73, you were getting taken for a ride, unless it was minty factory fresh.

Minty fresh Manhurin M73s, straight from the factory. $3000.


Chumgeyser on Youtube
E-nep throwing Brotherhood. Charter Member
Re: Firearms and Shooting
January 30, 2017 03:33AM
Chum: I wouldn't be surprised.

In regards to your comment about a cowboy set up, another cartridge to consider:

.327 Federal Magnum.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Bill22252 on YouTube. "See you space cowboy"

Resident Emerson Fanboi

Folding knives are fun, fixed blades are important.
Re: Firearms and Shooting
January 30, 2017 06:45AM
Quote
Bugout Bill
Chum: I wouldn't be surprised.

In regards to your comment about a cowboy set up, another cartridge to consider:

.327 Federal Magnum.

I looked into the .327 FM because of the Ruger LCR. I like what I have seen of it, but it isn't easy to find ammo for. I want to stick with the most common calibers.


Chumgeyser on Youtube
E-nep throwing Brotherhood. Charter Member
Re: Firearms and Shooting
February 03, 2017 04:23PM
On the cowboy combo idea, Henry is bringing out their Big Boy steel frame in .41 and .327 magnum this year. The .327 would be a sweet gun for coyotes and the like.

A coworker has an H&R Handi-Rifle in .357 that he doesn't use anymore, I may see if he'll sell it to me. That would be a great gun to go along with the GP100, and I could probably get it for about $100.

I'm not going to be able to shoot rentals of the G30 and G36 until March, but I stopped by the shop yesterday and did a comparison between the two, just holding them and putting them in my waistband. The 30 is really looking like a better option. The grip is just better for my hands, and just based on the wider grip and heavier slide it would be easy to see how the 30 would have noticeably less felt recoil. The capacity is a nice bonus as well. It also has a reputation as one of the most consistently accurate guns that Glock makes, more so than even the 21. I also decided that the sights would be upgraded immediately to Dawson Precision adjustables. Black rear blade and fiber optic front. It looks like a very versatile .45. I'll have to shoot them both to be sure, but the 30 pulled ahead. A Galco stow and go and a shoulder holster of some kind would likely be adequate for any concealment needs.
Re: Firearms and Shooting
February 03, 2017 04:40PM
Quote
Ryan Nafe
On the cowboy combo idea, Henry is bringing out their Big Boy steel frame in .41 and .327 magnum this year. The .327 would be a sweet gun for coyotes and the like.

A coworker has an H&R Handi-Rifle in .357 that he doesn't use anymore, I may see if he'll sell it to me. That would be a great gun to go along with the GP100, and I could probably get it for about $100.

I like the idea of the .327 Magnum, but I just don't want to deal with the ammo (ie. price/scarcity.)

I agree that the H&R Handi/GP100 would make a great combo.

As a bonus, to consider, Bolt action, break action and lever action rifles work better with suppressors than semi-autos since the bolt stays closed... and Trump is looking to legalize suppressors. There isn't much of any cooler than a suppressed lever-action rifle, or a suppressed break open for that matter.


Quote
Ryan Nafe
I'm not going to be able to shoot rentals of the G30 and G36 until March, but I stopped by the shop yesterday and did a comparison between the two, just holding them and putting them in my waistband. The 30 is really looking like a better option. The grip is just better for my hands, and just based on the wider grip and heavier slide it would be easy to see how the 30 would have noticeably less felt recoil. The capacity is a nice bonus as well. It also has a reputation as one of the most consistently accurate guns that Glock makes, more so than even the 21. I also decided that the sights would be upgraded immediately to Dawson Precision adjustables. Black rear blade and fiber optic front. It looks like a very versatile .45. I'll have to shoot them both to be sure, but the 30 pulled ahead. A Galco stow and go and a shoulder holster of some kind would likely be adequate for any concealment needs.

I haven't shot the G36 but I have done a lot of shooting with a G30. Many moons ago my buddy wanted to buy his first gun and he asked me for assistance. He ended up settling on the G30. It kicks, but for such a small .45 it is easy to handle the recoil.


Chumgeyser on Youtube
E-nep throwing Brotherhood. Charter Member
Re: Firearms and Shooting
February 03, 2017 05:22PM
I feel the same way about .327 Chum. .41 mag as well, they're just too expensive for me to shoot.

The recoil of the 36 is pretty substantial, especially when shot along side the 21. It's not extreme, and I shot it pretty well regardless, but it definitely requires a proper hold and consistent form in order to keep it on target if you're doing any kind of rapid fire. I really had to focus up and hang on tight to be able to hit what I was aiming at with follow up shots. The 21, on the other hand, is very easy to quickly empty entire 13 round magazines into a small area, say about 6" at 10 yards. The 30 is really appealing to me in that it's basically a sawed off 21. The only real complaint about the 30 vs the 36 is the width and weight, but I think that with a good belt or a shoulder holster it shouldn't be a huge issue.


Has anyone used holsters by Triple K?
Re: Firearms and Shooting
February 04, 2017 01:59AM
Ryan- if you like the 30, try the 30S. 30 grip with the slimmer 36 slide. Also, the cheap plastic holster that used to come free with a Glock is still only like 15 bucks and is surprisingly useful. Kinda like the opinel of holsters.
Re: Firearms and Shooting
February 04, 2017 03:18AM
Quote
Ryan
The only real complaint about the 30 vs the 36 is the width and weight, but I think that with a good belt or a shoulder holster it shouldn't be a huge issue

A good belt and holster make carrying a heavier gun much easier. And the 30 ain't that heavy. The problem for me is that it is thick, as you'd expect from a double stack .45. In shooting that broad grip spreads out the area of recoil and the added weight is helpful too. I would rather carry a Sig P220 IWB than a G30, and do on occasions.

Saw this video and thought of you Ryan....
[www.mrcolionnoir.com]
Re: Firearms and Shooting
February 04, 2017 03:22AM
They had a 30S there too Chad, and I did check it out, but the guy at the shop said that he felt that the gun didn't carry that much better than the 30. I didn't really look into it beyond that though.

The holster you mentioned would likely be nice for range use and similar things, I'll think about that. That's why I was inquiring about the Triple K holsters but for 15 bucks the one you mentioned may be better.
Re: Firearms and Shooting
February 04, 2017 03:41AM
I actually did read that article and watch the video recently haha it's kinda funny you brought that up.

The thickness is really the main question between the two, at least as far as carryability goes. I'm not sure if the 30 would be acceptable for IWB carry, but I really don't know. If it was in an OWB holster then I don't think it would be an issue, but I'm not sure how easily I could conceal that. It'd be fine if I was wearing a sports jacket or overcoat, but I don't often wear those in warmer weather. The Shoulder holster would likely be my first choice for cold weather carry but how easily do you think I could conceal an OWB crossdraw holster with summer clothing? Something like this:

[www.epsaddlery.com]

I'm fairly tall at 6'2" but I weigh about 175. My waist is pretty narrow.