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Firearms and Shooting

Posted by Bugout Bill 
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Re: Firearms and Shooting
February 08, 2017 04:03AM
I don't know Bill, if all you're doing is range shooting then I don't see why you wouldn't go with remanufactured stuff. It's cheaper and should be made to the same quality standards, just using brass that's already been fired. It's like someone reloaded them for you.
Re: Firearms and Shooting
February 08, 2017 04:03AM
Bill,
I always felt the same way. I bought some Ultramax ammo years ago, and spent 3x as long cleaning my gun.

"I am still discussing issues of steels and performance at this stage." -- Cliff Stamp, May his memory be a blessing
"Life is GOOD", -- Stefan_Wolf, May His Memory Be A Blessing
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Re: Firearms and Shooting
February 08, 2017 04:46AM
Ryan: If the range I go to is selling it, I will use it. I feel better that I will have someone I can yell at if my gun kabooms. I've shot Independence reman 5.56 before with no real complaints, for the record. I am not opposed to it as a whole. Hell, Black Hills sells re-manufactured ammo, I would have no issues trusting their work. Same goes for a botique maker like Underwood, though they make ammo off of virgin brass if I recall correctly.

Anyway, from what I remember, the issues Freedom had were a number of years ago when they had just started out (post-obama election or post-sandy hook, I don't remember), there was a rush to get product out there and a lot of fly-by-night manufacturers were out there. If the difference between factory or reman is a couple bucks, though, I will take the factory. I have more faith in, say Federal or Olin-Winchester's quality control and ability to deal with a problem than an independent company. That doesn't mean they don't have problems either. Federal Lake City 5.56 blew up a number of guns in 01-02 when they had just ramped up production for the Afghan war.

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Bill22252 on YouTube. "See you space cowboy"

Resident Emerson Fanboi

Folding knives are fun, fixed blades are important.
Re: Firearms and Shooting
February 08, 2017 07:11AM
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Bugout Bill
I'm kind of interested in the Cajun Gun Works triggers for the 75Bs; the stock trigger is pretty bad.

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chad234
I'd sure like to try one of them Cajun Cz's. I'll have to keep my eyes peeled on the local gun board.


In regards to Cajun Guns Works...

- They were friendly and professional both on the phone and via email.
- You can purchase an entire gun from them, or...
- You can purchase various gun replacement items (ie. trigger kits) or...
- You can send your own CZ to them and have them do whatever you like (ie. full trigger/spring job.)
- They have a long turn-around time for having work done on a gun. They told me 8 to 10 weeks and I believe they started on my gun 9 weeks after I placed my order. Waiting for something this cool is not for the faint of heart. I almost didn't make it spinning smiley sticking its tongue out
- The tech/smith who works on your gun, calls you when it is your turn. He goes over your order and makes sure that is what you want. There was no sales pressure here, but I imagine a lot of CGW customers change their minds within the 8 to 10 weeks it takes before any work is done on their order.
- You have to give a down payment on an order. I believe it is 40% of the order's cost.
- I would recommend them to anyone looking to upgrade their CZ, or purchase a new CZ that is slicked out by a professional.

Bill, Cajun Gun Works has mostly worked with the all steel CZ models over the years. I'm considering getting the Cajun Gun Works version of the CZ 75 SP-01 tactical urban grey suppressor-ready. Drool...






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Bugout Bill
I'm not terribly fond of the polymer offerings, but the poly framed SP-01 Phantom does catch my eye from time to time.

That being said, I'd rather have the SP-01 Shadow with some combat sights. The original Shadows were awesome.

[cz-usa.com]

The new Shadow 2, drool...




Chumgeyser on Youtube
E-nep throwing Brotherhood. Charter Member
Re: Firearms and Shooting
February 08, 2017 04:36PM
Does anyone have a recommendation for a decent turret press or even a progressive press? I'm getting really tired of knowing what kind of ammunition I want without having any available or being so expensive I'd rather compromise. It's time to start reloading.
Re: Firearms and Shooting
February 08, 2017 04:40PM
I'm looking at a Hornady Lock-N-Load AP. Anyone have one? Pewpewtactical recommends it as a decent progressive press for multiple calibers.
Re: Firearms and Shooting
February 08, 2017 06:24PM
Oh the opposite end of the spectrum, a single-stage press would be adequate for what I'm looking to do, outside of high volume handgun loading. I would almost rather use a single stage for rifle and precision handgun (.357 hunting ammo) and could perhaps tolerate spending more time to make high numbers of .45 auto. It's an interesting decision.
Re: Firearms and Shooting
February 08, 2017 07:47PM
Chum,
That really is a awesome pistol you have there....

"I am still discussing issues of steels and performance at this stage." -- Cliff Stamp, May his memory be a blessing
"Life is GOOD", -- Stefan_Wolf, May His Memory Be A Blessing
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Re: Firearms and Shooting
February 09, 2017 07:01PM
The Shadow 2 is drool worthy indeed, though I'd like some different grips. CZ seems to have lived up to the mystique it had in my youth, Col. Cooper even endorsed them for a 9mm.... very popular among competitors too, gaining quickly on Glock among unsposored shooters it seems.
Re: Firearms and Shooting
February 09, 2017 07:31PM
It's funny...some firearms aren't really appreciated until you separate them from being compared to similar competitive models...just look at the era of the 'Wonder-9's'....so many excellent pistols.....

"I am still discussing issues of steels and performance at this stage." -- Cliff Stamp, May his memory be a blessing
"Life is GOOD", -- Stefan_Wolf, May His Memory Be A Blessing
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Re: Firearms and Shooting
February 09, 2017 07:35PM
Jason: Yeah.

Star, Smith & Wesson, Beretta, Sig, Browning.

All sorts of things get lost in the Glock Black Hole. Most of my friends are relatively new into guns, when we are talking about stuff we are looking at getting, it is kind of entertaining how much some people talk up Glocks as the ideal handgun for everything. I have straight up asked my some of my friends if they have every actually fired a handgun other than a Glock. The answer was no.

I can readily out shoot my two friends that own a Glock 19 and a S&W Shield. A good deal of that comes from the fact that I primarily shoot steel framed, DA/SA, full size autos.

I'm sorry if I come across as talking up my own ability. To quote the late Louis Awerbuck:

"It is extremely simple. It’s sights, trigger, follow-through. That’s all it is, that’s all it ever has been. Once the firing grip, the stance, the shooting platform and that type of thing are worked out. The actual operation of sending a projectile downrange on a steady target is sights, trigger, follow-through. Most people try to shoot too accurately and overthink the problem. They try for 103 percent and wind up with 40 percent. My draw to the game is the psychology of it, the whys and wherefores. It always has been."

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Bill22252 on YouTube. "See you space cowboy"

Resident Emerson Fanboi

Folding knives are fun, fixed blades are important.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/09/2017 08:08PM by Bugout Bill.
Re: Firearms and Shooting
February 09, 2017 09:25PM
Bill,
Exactly.

"I am still discussing issues of steels and performance at this stage." -- Cliff Stamp, May his memory be a blessing
"Life is GOOD", -- Stefan_Wolf, May His Memory Be A Blessing
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Re: Firearms and Shooting
February 09, 2017 09:42PM
Jason: There are a lot of people who really dislike DA/SA autos. I love them. The first shot can be an issue if you don't train for it, but follow up shots are so rapid its not even funny. I can double tap a target with my CZ75 trivially. A stock SA trigger, even as awful as most service triggers are, is still better than most striker fired pistols.

Chum: I like the Shadow Tac. Alot.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Bill22252 on YouTube. "See you space cowboy"

Resident Emerson Fanboi

Folding knives are fun, fixed blades are important.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/09/2017 09:43PM by Bugout Bill.
Re: Firearms and Shooting
February 09, 2017 10:25PM
I trained virtually all of my adult life on DA/SA, specifically the Sig platform. And a crisp, clean single action trigger beats the pants off any mushy striker fired gun in terms of the pleasure of shooting, and likely accuracy. But for the last couple years, my shooting has been focused on striker fired weapons. Once you get passed the initial mush, a well tuned striker fired gun runs a close second. I certainly prefer a striker fired gun to a DOA. Remember, Glocks and the like are truly mass produced. It is amazing what some simple polishing of the internals does to smooth out the trigger. Not removing any metal beyond the microscopic, changing parts or contact angles. Just a cotton wheel or q tip and some polish.

Posting with Ryan about Glock holsters, made me pull out a OEM holster. I remembered I had some spare soft loops for a Raven or Bravo holster, so screwed them on to convert the OWB to IWB. The Glockl thermoplastic is softer than thick kydex, so will deform a bit more easily, such as closing a bit with a tight belt, but still allows one handed re-holster with care taken. I like my higher end holsters, but would certainly use this in a pinch. And if I was a young man still, I would not hesitate to use it as a primary CCW rig.


Re: Firearms and Shooting
February 10, 2017 02:21AM
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Bugout Bill

All sorts of things get lost in the Glock Black Hole. Most of my friends are relatively new into guns, when we are talking about stuff we are looking at getting, it is kind of entertaining how much some people talk up Glocks as the ideal handgun for everything. I have straight up asked my some of my friends if they have every actually fired a handgun other than a Glock. The answer was no.

Just to clarify my own position on Glock firearms:

The way I see it, there is no reason for me to have a semi automatic handgun outside of personal defense or combat. Having said that, what I value for that type of weapon is pretty straightforward:

- Reliability (known, long-term, track record of extremely high reliability. Goes bang every time with little to no FTF's or FTE's, etc.)

- Resistance (continues to function if subjected to) to things like sweat, dirt, water, lack of cleaning/maintenance

- Simplicity of operation/use/maintenance

- Functional with a wide variety of ammunition

- Cost effective (everything from parts, upgrades, spare mags, cost of the gun itself)

- Accuracy (no need for match accuracy but it has to be able to easily hit a human silhouette at any reasonable range, I'd say out to 100 yards)

- Capacity

- Weight to firepower ratio


Given the above criteria, I don't think there is a better handgun out there than a Glock.

Other guns are interesting, nostalgic, unique, etc. and that's all fine. But I don't want or need a semi automatic handgun for the sake of any of those things. All I want/need a semi automatic handgun for is personal defense or combat. Every gun I own has a specific purpose:

- My pump 20 gauge can be used for any kind of bird hunting, small game, defense/combat, and deer size animals with the rifled slug barrel.

- My two .22 bolt actions can be used for anything that that cartridge is appropriate for

- My .243 is a crossover varmint/predator/deer gun

- My .308 is for big game or long-range combat

- My .38 special is a lightweight and versatile revolver that can be used for hunting anything up to about 100lbs, home defense, personal defense

- My .357 can be used for anything the .38 can do (outside of concealed carry) and can reliably take game up to about 350lbs with good ammo and proper shot placement, with the added bonus of being an incredibly potent anti-people firearm with full-power 125 grain JHP's.


Continuing the trend of only having guns with a specific purpose:

Again looking at what I need a semi automatic handgun for, and the above criteria, I see absolutely no reason to buy anything but a Glock. It's not for fun at the range, collecting, showing off to people, or for the sake of having a fancy, expensive gun. It's for killing people who are trying to kill me. That's it.
Re: Firearms and Shooting
February 10, 2017 04:49AM
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jasonstone20
Chum,
That really is a awesome pistol you have there....

Thanks Jason. I am liking it so far smiling smiley




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chad234
The Shadow 2 is drool worthy indeed, though I'd like some different grips. CZ seems to have lived up to the mystique it had in my youth, Col. Cooper even endorsed them for a 9mm.... very popular among competitors too, gaining quickly on Glock among unsposored shooters it seems.

I had friends who used to shoot old CZ models. This was a long time ago, and I had it in my head that Eastern European guns should be avoided. I don't know where I came up with that notion, but I left it behind long ago. The more I read about the CZs the more I had to try them out. I am so glad I did.




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Bugout Bill
All sorts of things get lost in the Glock Black Hole. Most of my friends are relatively new into guns, when we are talking about stuff we are looking at getting, it is kind of entertaining how much some people talk up Glocks as the ideal handgun for everything. I have straight up asked my some of my friends if they have every actually fired a handgun other than a Glock. The answer was no.

There is so much of this Glock fanboy BS on the internets now, so ridiculous. I think it is possible we will see something like this in the future regarding the Sig P320. People seem to think that if the military uses it, it must be the best.

I like Glocks. I think they are great guns, but I'm not under the impression that nothing else is better. From my own experience that is not the case.

The best thing about Glocks, for me personally, is all the stuff made for Glocks and all the stuff that uses Glock accessories.


Chumgeyser on Youtube
E-nep throwing Brotherhood. Charter Member
Re: Firearms and Shooting
February 10, 2017 04:59AM
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chad234
Once you get passed the initial mush, a well tuned striker fired gun runs a close second.

You would like the Walther PPQ or Q5. For awhile everyone was saying the PPQ had the best striker fired trigger from the factory. Now, those who had a chance to shoot the CZ P-10, say it is better than the Walther PPQ trigger. Yankee Marshall is the only online gun personality (that I have watched) who says he prefers the PPQ trigger over the CZ P-10's.



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chad234
It is amazing what some simple polishing of the internals does to smooth out the trigger. Not removing any metal beyond the microscopic, changing parts or contact angles. Just a cotton wheel or q tip and some polish.

I wish I had the guts to polish the internals of some of my guns. I've always wanted to do that.


Chumgeyser on Youtube
E-nep throwing Brotherhood. Charter Member
Re: Firearms and Shooting
February 10, 2017 05:08AM
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Ryan Nafe
Given the above criteria, I don't think there is a better handgun out there than a Glock.

I agree... but when I shoot other handguns back-to-back with a Glock, the Glock doesn't always win. How a gun feels and performs while you shoot it means a lot to me personally.


Chumgeyser on Youtube
E-nep throwing Brotherhood. Charter Member
Re: Firearms and Shooting
February 10, 2017 11:59AM
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Chum
I agree... but when I shoot other handguns back-to-back with a Glock, the Glock doesn't always win.

What do you mean?


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Chum
How a gun feels and performs while you shoot it means a lot to me personally.

I would make two points about this:

1. I have had no problems shooting the few Glocks I've shot. I can hit what I'm aiming at just fine. I agree that if don't find a gun to be comfortable to hold and shoot then it probably wouldn't be something I'm interested in buying. But I have pretty large hands, XL gloves and depending on the particular brand they're still too short for me. Even the full-size 21 fits nicely in my hand. I haven't had any problems with shooting the guns.

2. This takes a back seat in the list of priorities to pretty much everything else. It's just not a big concern compared to the rest of the criteria.
Re: Firearms and Shooting
February 11, 2017 12:52AM
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Ryan Nafe
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Chum
I agree... but when I shoot other handguns back-to-back with a Glock, the Glock doesn't always win.

What do you mean?


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Chum
How a gun feels and performs while you shoot it means a lot to me personally.

I would make two points about this:

1. I have had no problems shooting the few Glocks I've shot. I can hit what I'm aiming at just fine. I agree that if don't find a gun to be comfortable to hold and shoot then it probably wouldn't be something I'm interested in buying. But I have pretty large hands, XL gloves and depending on the particular brand they're still too short for me. Even the full-size 21 fits nicely in my hand. I haven't had any problems with shooting the guns.

2. This takes a back seat in the list of priorities to pretty much everything else. It's just not a big concern compared to the rest of the criteria.

I just mean that I have shot many Glocks, back-to-back, against many other pistols. It mostly comes down to how fast I can hit my targets accurately, and the Glock has lost on many occasions.

I am more accurate with my CZ P-09 and Walther Q5 than with any Glock I have shot. I can hit faster, with accuracy, with both of those guns than any Glock.

I wanted the Glock to be my go to handgun. This is going by a similar handgun criteria that you are using. On paper the Glock rules. It just doesn't win in actual testing.

I would never recommend that someone not buy a Glock (unless you are talking about competition shooting) but I would also not consider the Glock to be the best gun around.

There are many, many, companies that make handguns that are every bit as reliable as a Glock. Sig, Walther, CZ, Colt, S&W, etc. etc. all make ultra reliable handguns, but they also come out with a ton of new designs all the time, unlike Glock. Everytime a newly designed handgun hits the market you are going to get firing issues. Those bugs have to be worked out. Glock isn't immune from this. When they first brought out the G42 it had all sorts of issues. Glock made several changes to the G42 over the years to get it to run properly. Those were stealth changes btw. Glock didn't make those changes overtly. I have a newer G42 and it runs great. I wouldn't have even tried one out if I had intended to buy one when they first came out. The changes to the gun hadn't been made yet, and by most accounts on YT it was not an overly reliable gun. It was definitely overly ammo sensitive.

Oh, and Glocks jam, have failures to feed, failures to fire etc. Just like other handguns. Glocks aren't gauranteed to fire every time you pull the trigger, but they garnered such a good rep for reliability, early on, that the fan boys have since turned that into something it is not. Despite what they say, Glocks aren't perfect.


Chumgeyser on Youtube
E-nep throwing Brotherhood. Charter Member
Re: Firearms and Shooting
February 11, 2017 12:58AM
Again a wonderful explanation Ryan. And a Glock is a good choice. But a Sig, a Walther, or an M&P I think meet all those criteria except for costs and availability of gear, parts and mods. Also, newer weapons can't have that kind of track history.

My range requirement for a handgun is 25 yards.
Re: Firearms and Shooting
February 11, 2017 01:08AM
I'm nobody's fan boy spinning smiley sticking its tongue out but I do like to follow trends, especially when it comes to knives and guns, and you get periods in time where one maker/manufacturer just seems to be turning out superior products to the rest, or those products are as good as the rest but come at a better price. Right now, I think CZ is killing it. They are coming out with excellent guns and the value is likewise excellent.


Chumgeyser on Youtube
E-nep throwing Brotherhood. Charter Member
Re: Firearms and Shooting
February 11, 2017 01:59AM
Here is an instagram video of McCullen, wisely practicing his shooting skills at night...

[video-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net]


Chumgeyser on Youtube
E-nep throwing Brotherhood. Charter Member
Re: Firearms and Shooting
February 11, 2017 02:11AM
Chum: A good example why you want to use ammo with flash suppressant powder.

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Bill22252 on YouTube. "See you space cowboy"

Resident Emerson Fanboi

Folding knives are fun, fixed blades are important.
Re: Firearms and Shooting
February 11, 2017 02:40AM
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Bugout Bill
Chum: A good example why you want to use ammo with flash suppressant powder.

Good point.


Chumgeyser on Youtube
E-nep throwing Brotherhood. Charter Member
Re: Firearms and Shooting
February 11, 2017 05:41PM
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Chum
I just mean that I have shot many Glocks, back-to-back, against many other pistols. It mostly comes down to how fast I can hit my targets accurately, and the Glock has lost on many occasions.

How can you say that that means the gun is inferior to the other? I mean there are a myriad of things that could swing the results one way or another. How much of a gap in time are you talking about and how much did you shoot each gun individually? This is what I mean by "not for fun at the range", if I have one gun and only shoot that one, why would I not be able to be proficient enough to defend myself? I'm not buying a racegun, Chum.


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Chum
I am more accurate with my CZ P-09 and Walther Q5 than with any Glock I have shot. I can hit faster, with accuracy, with both of those guns than any Glock.

Can you demonstrate that one gun is more accurate than the other? Meaning when the gun is shot from something like a Ransom Rest, which one is more accurate? And again, how big of a difference are you talking about, how much time was spent shooting each platform, etc.? It's just doesn't sound like it was very objective.


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Chum
I would also not consider the Glock to be the best gun around.

I never said they were.

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Chum
Oh, and Glocks jam, have failures to feed, failures to fire etc. ... Despite what they say, Glocks aren't perfect.

Chum it's like you didn't read what I said, I never claimed they're perfect or don't have any malfunctions.
Re: Firearms and Shooting
February 11, 2017 05:56PM
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chad234
... But a Sig, a Walther, or an M&P I think meet all those criteria except for costs and availability of gear, parts and mods.

Here's my thought process on the cost:

I'd be open to a Sig P220, though I think the DA/SA trigger looses out to the striker fired trigger in simplicity of use. The issue is that at ~ $1000 or more, I would much rather buy a rifle that I know for certain I'll actually use to kill things. The handgun is just something I'd shoot a lot for training purposes but I honestly hope I never have to use it for its intended purpose. I just don't see much justification to buy a gun at that price unless it's going to be used to fill my freezer.


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chad234
Also, newer weapons can't have that kind of track history.

This is one of the criteria that puts a lot of guns out of the game right away. Are there plenty of new gun designs that are probably just fine? Yes. But why would I take a chance when there are designs that have a three decade or longer track record of being reliable?


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chad234
My range requirement for a handgun is 25 yards.

Yeah I think that's probably a realistic limit for actual engagement range, but I was talking about accuracy. For example, if the gun is accurate enough to print "2 groups at 25 yards, I should be able to hit an 8" group at 100. That would be acceptable accuracy. I have an old keg at my range that I use for 100 yard accuracy testing. If I can hit it with a handgun at 100 yards then I'm ok with that kind of accuracy for defensive use.
Re: Firearms and Shooting
February 11, 2017 06:43PM
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Ryan Nafe
How can you say that that means the gun is inferior to the other? I mean there are a myriad of things that could swing the results one way or another. How much of a gap in time are you talking about and how much did you shoot each gun individually? This is what I mean by "not for fun at the range", if I have one gun and only shoot that one, why would I not be able to be proficient enough to defend myself? I'm not buying a racegun, Chum.

From the tests I have managed to do, I was able to out shoot the Glock with other pistols. This has happened on multiple occasions.

You are correct that my sample size, and account for all things that could possibly alter these tests, was not perfect. It has simply been taking several guns, using the same ammo, and firing the guns back-to-back. I also try to shoot the same pattern each time.

I had a good enough "feeling" from that to make a decision. For example, I am able to shoot the Walther Q5, at the same speed as a G19, G17 and G34, with greater accuracy. Alternately I can shoot the Walther Q5 with greater accuracy than a G19, G17, G34 when shooting at a slow pace. That has been the case, consistently, every time I have done this kind of testing.

I will not say that a Glock is less accurate, or less fast, than a Walther Q5, it simply means that in the shooting I have done, it has been. Take that information any way you like.

From my experience the Glock is inferior to the Walther Q5 in the manner I suggested. I don't think I used the word "inferior" previously however, did I? In any regard, I do find the Glock to be inferior to the Walther in terms of accuracy and ease of hitting my target quickly.






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Ryan Nafe
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Chum
I am more accurate with my CZ P-09 and Walther Q5 than with any Glock I have shot. I can hit faster, with accuracy, with both of those guns than any Glock.

Can you demonstrate that one gun is more accurate than the other? Meaning when the gun is shot from something like a Ransom Rest, which one is more accurate? And again, how big of a difference are you talking about, how much time was spent shooting each platform, etc.? It's just doesn't sound like it was very objective.

I was as objective as I can be. If there has been any mental bias on my part, it was for the Glock.

I cannot prove any of this. I do not own a ransom rest and I did not video tape any of my testing/shooting. I probably should start videoing more stuff like this.




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Ryan Nafe
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Chum
I would also not consider the Glock to be the best gun around.

I never said they were.

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Chum
Oh, and Glocks jam, have failures to feed, failures to fire etc. ... Despite what they say, Glocks aren't perfect.

Chum it's like you didn't read what I said, I never claimed they're perfect or don't have any malfunctions.

I didn't suggest you said Glocks were perfect. I suggested that fan boys and the Glock company suggests they are perfect (ie. "Glock Perfection"winking smiley .

By your own criteria you claim that the Glock is the best gun, or do you mean something else when you say... "Given the above criteria, I don't think there is a better handgun out there than a Glock."


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Ryan Nafe
Chad, at this point the decision is going to rest on how well I shoot each one side by side. If the difference in shootability and practical accuracy is big enough, I'll likely go with the 30. If they're not too different then I'll go with the 36.

So, obviously shootability and practical accuracy matter to you. Therefore, I gave my opinion on both. I don't believe that the Glock is the most shootable or accurate gun around, or gun that fits the criteria on your list.


Chumgeyser on Youtube
E-nep throwing Brotherhood. Charter Member
Re: Firearms and Shooting
February 11, 2017 07:25PM
Chum- so for you the Walther shoots better than Glocks. Probably that way for a lot of people, and for a lot of other people the reverse is true. I think that speaks more to the ergonomics and fit to the individual shooter than the intrinsic accuracy of the gun. Though with match grade barrels in some models, I would expect the intrinsic accuracy to be higher in Walther. Either will easily provide combat grade accuracy.

On the other hand, Ryan added some other criteria to his selection in which the Glock is demonstrably a leader among top tier guns- track record, high quality accessory availability (and ease of install, simplicity of design). Some people are building "Glocks" wholly from aftermarket parts these days.

You can buy 10 G19 for about $100 if you catch a special. How many Walther magazines can you pick for $100, if you can find them? Holsters? Triggers? Sights?

When it comes to reliability, I venture no modern semi-auto has more rounds through the platform then Glocks, they dominate the LE market and for over 30 years have been heavily tested and used. Yes, their will be jams or malfunctions in any gun over a large enough sample size. Personally, I think the M&P line is the runner up to Glock in the LE market, though some agencies like Texas had reliability issues with runs.

Personally, I prefer chocolate to vanilla ice cream, expect when being serviced with pie or cake. My favorite ice cream is only available at Christmas from a local maker, cherry ice cream with tiny dark chocolate cordials mixed in. For an exotic flair, a local place also makes a coconut ginger that is near orgasmic.
Re: Firearms and Shooting
February 11, 2017 08:59PM
Chum, it's not very surprising that you can shoot the Q5 better than a G17, but look at what you're comparing. It's a service-grade gun vs. one that's designed for match shooting.


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chad234
...

You can buy 10 G19 for about $100 if you catch a special. How many Walther magazines can you pick for $100, if you can find them? Holsters? Triggers? Sights?

When it comes to reliability, I venture no modern semi-auto has more rounds through the platform then Glocks, they dominate the LE market and for over 30 years have been heavily tested and used. Yes, their will be jams or malfunctions in any gun over a large enough sample size. Personally, I think the M&P line is the runner up to Glock in the LE market, though some agencies like Texas had reliability issues with runs.

The above is precisely what I'm getting at.

I can do any trigger work necessary with my own hands and tools, it can't be any more complex than the GP100's lockwork and I did a complete trigger job on that with no problems. Aside from that the only thing I need is more magazines, Dawson adjustable sights, and maybe an aftermarket heavy-duty guide rod.