Welcome! Log In Create A New Profile

Advanced

Offical MMA & UFC thread.

Posted by Old Spice 
Offical MMA & UFC thread.
December 12, 2015 11:40PM
Post about those silly billy fighters here.

Aldo's loss was hilarious.
Re: Offical MMA & UFC thread.
December 13, 2015 05:30AM
"My one weakness: punches to my jaw. How did he know?!"

He took a decent punch (considering the circumstances, no follow through) a fraction of a second after delivering the match winner too, didn't seem to upset him at all. Good jaw.
Re: Offical MMA & UFC thread.
December 13, 2015 09:07AM
Chris Weidman got STOMPED by Rockhold. I was pretty shocked.
Re: Offical MMA & UFC thread.
March 05, 2016 05:55PM
I really like the Diaz brothers, but to be honest, I'm pretty sure Nate is gonna loose. It's likely going to be a decent fight, but I have to agree with McGregor that Nate's fighting is really repetitive and predictable. Which is not going to work in Nate's favor.
Re: Offical MMA & UFC thread.
March 05, 2016 06:41PM
Ryan,

Nate is unlikely to get tired or knocked out, Connor is unlikely to try to out point him or sub him. I can see Connor easily out pointing him, but not actually attempting to do it. In an exchange it could come down to who can take more shots and that is one area with both Diaz brothers tend to excel. I can see Nate knocking Connor out easily in that exchange just as Connor should easily take him if he fights smart. The Misha/Holly fight is much more interesting as I can see Misha taking that easily which opens the division up completely.
Re: Offical MMA & UFC thread.
March 05, 2016 11:18PM
Diaz for the win. MMA is crazy.

Edit to add: Cliff, it's fun to compare thoughts on this and I appreciate the input/observations. However, based on the last couple events discussed, I don't think I would do well to bet against your guesses. Oh by the way, the Diaz brothers finally got a decent check. It's about time.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/05/2016 11:32PM by Ryan Nafe.
Re: Offical MMA & UFC thread.
March 05, 2016 11:32PM
Quote
Ryan Nafe
Diaz for the win. MMA is crazy.

I'm a McGregor fan, because I like all the drama he brings to the fight. I am, and have been, an even bigger Nate Diaz fan. Nate is pure toughness, and I loved seeing him sub Conor. Great stuff!


Chumgeyser on Youtube
E-nep throwing Brotherhood. Charter Member
Re: Offical MMA & UFC thread.
March 06, 2016 07:21AM
Yeah Chum, I like Nate too. Connor is obviously great for the sport and he seems to have a handle on mental warfare, but sometimes I think the personal attacks are too much. You wouldn't catch me insulting people on national tv. Especially when you know they can't realistically do anything about it right away.
Re: Offical MMA & UFC thread.
March 06, 2016 11:32AM
Ryan, it is likely all you are seeing there is just entertainment-WWE style. While there are a lot of people who want to see the fights, there are also a lot of people who want to see the flash. This is why people like Chael Sonnen can easily draw huge numbers because people like the show. It would not surprise me at all to learn that both parties are either aware and do this intentionally, even to the point of planning/staging confrontations. Ronda even openly admitted the WWE influence, and Sonnen even did skits with WWE guys.

The women's division just exploded now as a lot of people are gunning for Misha, including of course Cat. Ronda sees an easy way to get get belt back no matter what happens with Cat and Misha. Even if she does, then Holly vs Ronda II is an obvious choice and then it could all repeat. This kind of interaction where you have such a divergent style matchup makes for a chaotic division which means constant competitive fights.

Connor is now likely going to have a much harder time even when he drops back down as he could face guys who know that they could test his cardio, stall and try to ground him, or even point/pick and test his chin. Plus he is under severe mental stress now that he has to win. If he loses two in a row it would be hard to come back from given the backlash. His next fight could be very telling.

And now Diaz is hyped and is likely going to be looking for a fight.

Great night for a fight fan.
Re: Offical MMA & UFC thread.
March 06, 2016 02:49PM
Quote
CliffStamp
Ryan, it is likely all you are seeing there is just entertainment-WWE style.

Yes, this probably goes back to the beginning of prize fights. Talking trash is about getting into your opponent's head and putting on a show for the fans.

Ali has said that a lot of his talk was designed to have his opponents think he was crazy... because nobody wants to fight a crazy person.


Chumgeyser on Youtube
E-nep throwing Brotherhood. Charter Member
Re: Offical MMA & UFC thread.
March 06, 2016 05:45PM
Despite the fact that he was rocked, I was surprised that he went for a take down on Nate. On one hand he did not have a a lot of choice. On the other he did not have much of a chance when he did. Connor's ground game...is lacking to say the least, much less against a legit BJJ Blackbelt. Did not expect Connor to gas the way he did. Connor will have to do some hard thinking about the whole moving up in weight class if just standing in front of someone and banging away with punches is his overall game plan. Back in the mid 90s I did some fighting with the Hook 'n' Shoot organization in Indiana . Not a lot of places to fight back then so guess maybe you could consider it AA ball/AAA ball at the time. There where either 2 weight classes 200 and up, 200 and below or none at all. Some people could do pretty well at that but they really had to adjust how they fought. I still think Connor could do OK at 170 if he fought smarter and learned some ground defense at least, higher then that he is going to have to really change how he fights and his skill set.
Re: Offical MMA & UFC thread.
March 07, 2016 10:42AM
Maybe I'll give the UFC and MMA another look. Last time I watched was years ago, most of the fighters were boring, unskilled and embarrassing to watch.

It sounds like there has been some serious growth in skill and ability of the fighters.
Re: Offical MMA & UFC thread.
March 07, 2016 11:05AM
Cliff, it certainly was a great one.

Chum and Cliff, I think I have trouble seeing it as that WWE kinda thing because I never watched that kinda wrestling past like age 8 and I also just don't care for drama. I guess it's just an element of the UFC I never got into.
Re: Offical MMA & UFC thread.
March 07, 2016 06:25PM
Quote
TerriLiGunn
Maybe I'll give the UFC and MMA another look. Last time I watched was years ago, most of the fighters were boring, unskilled and embarrassing to watch.

It sounds like there has been some serious growth in skill and ability of the fighters.


Sounds like we found one of the few people that saw one of my fights....

spinning smiley sticking its tongue outgrinning smiley



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/07/2016 06:25PM by Mark Nelson.
Re: Offical MMA & UFC thread.
March 07, 2016 11:14PM
I saw a lot of hyped up rage monkeys with poor conditioning in all senses of the word. Almost no body toughening, stamina, speed or strength training. Who spent more time flailing and trying to tackle each other then a "Bear" convention. Then the lack of skill just made it even worse.
Re: Offical MMA & UFC thread.
March 08, 2016 04:12AM
What experience do you have with martial arts TerriLiGunn?
Re: Offical MMA & UFC thread.
March 08, 2016 08:34AM
Started around 6 with being taught be my family various things until around 14. These were a mix of Army and military combat styles including knives and improvised weapons and small arms.
Knives and handguns are still my best and preferred because it is what my Mom and Dad first taught me.
12 is where I started learning isshin ryu karate, I then switched to kung fu at 17 and trained in that off and on until 24 when my seifu and I split over personal reasons.
Mostly been training on my own since then. Haven't found the right teacher yet.
Re: Offical MMA & UFC thread.
March 08, 2016 04:46PM
How many people have you actually fought?
Re: Offical MMA & UFC thread.
March 08, 2016 07:00PM
Quote
TerriLiGunn
I saw a lot of hyped up rage monkeys with poor conditioning in all senses of the word. Almost no body toughening, stamina, speed or strength training. Who spent more time flailing and trying to tackle each other then a "Bear" convention. Then the lack of skill just made it even worse.



I get what you are saying. There are a few things you have to consider though. Now there is some (not alot) of money in fighting, unless you are top top tier then it can pay very well. Now I am not sure how many years ago you checked out MMA, but if it was more then 10 then there was very, very little money in it. Back when I fought 95-97 roughly there was zero money in it. I fought in the Hook n Shoot Absolute 2 in 97. It was a 8 man no rules tournament. The winner got $2000, that's it and that was a rare payout at the time. Unless you fought in Japan you might get gas money and a place to stay. You are not going to attract the best people (best athletes) with no financial incentive. That is a problem still but getting better. Even if someone who was skilled and was in the shape to fight had little upside in doing so unless if it was for the reason of loving the sport and competition (that was me). People didn't want to risk injury or expose that their style was not the end all be all (had a lot to do with it often in the start of the sport) for nothing. I would suggest checking out the UFC and some of the free fights they put on TV. Some of the other organizations can still be a bit rough...looking at you Bellator with your Kimbo Slice vs DaDA 5000 crap fest.
Re: Offical MMA & UFC thread.
March 08, 2016 08:09PM
Kinda wanted to add one more thing to maybe try and give some insight. I had a 8-5 record, 7 by submission, one with strikes. In the fight I talked about in my last post I lost in the first round to a guy named John Ranken via straight arm bar. Now this was my first no rules fight but not my first tournament. John was a better all around fighter then me, much better stand up and more well rounded ground game ( I did a lot of leg locks which at the time most people where very weak at) but I had around a 70 pound weight advantage. Normally in all my other fights my plan was to get the person to the ground then work for a submission, most of the time a leg lock of some kind. Now in this fight my plan was to get to the ground then pound him out as fast as I could and I 100% got tunnel vision for that plan. Because even if you win you still have 2 more fights the same night to win it all. He caught a early armbar from the bottom that I should have been able to avoid but the tunnel vision had kicked in and the only thing that was in my mind was 1) no rules and 2) 2 more fights that night so must hulk smash. Nerves and bad plan combine and if you watched it today you could 100% call me a rage monkey in that fight but it does and can get a lot more complicated then that. So there is a DVD out there of me getting 100% owned fast and I would not change it for the world lol. winking smiley
Re: Offical MMA & UFC thread.
March 08, 2016 10:08PM
Old Spice-
I've been in a few over the years. Been mugged. Broken bones. No fun.

Mark N-
It was more around when it was a few years old. They were in single digits of champions. Not sure exactly when.
It was a full year of fights off and on that I watched, almost every fighter was the same bar room brawler with a few good fighters who were just weeded out by the odds. That is mostly why I have such a bad opinion, good fighters were so out numbered by people who just liked hurting people.
me2
Re: Offical MMA & UFC thread.
March 10, 2016 07:30PM
The early days of UFC were filled with brawlers who just had the one punch power. There were very few with real skill. Marco Ruas comes to mind. Shamrock back in the day had ground skill, but stand up lacked. Dan Severn was a legit wrestler, but couldn't finish. Don Frye was a decent boxer with disturbing power that could also wrestle decently. Mark Coleman was a straight wrestler that took Severn's skill one step further and is sometimes credited with the ground and pound style of finishing. Maurice Smith was a legitimate striker. Bas Rutten as well. I need to see if they ever fought. Frank Shamrock had ground skill and power. Sakuraba was also very skilled in grappling. This was before the strikers had learned enough to develop takedown defense. The disparity in skill was often great, so the fights were one sided.
Re: Offical MMA & UFC thread.
March 10, 2016 09:02PM
Quote
me2
Sakuraba was also very skilled in grappling.

Talk about an entertaining fighter. Sakuraba was really fun to watch. It was like watching one of the smaller, more acrobatic, professional wrestlers in a real fight.


Chumgeyser on Youtube
E-nep throwing Brotherhood. Charter Member
me2
Re: Offical MMA & UFC thread.
March 10, 2016 10:11PM
I was a fan of Tsuyoshi Kosaka as well, an excellent grappler, though awarded an odd win against Fedor.
Re: Offical MMA & UFC thread.
March 12, 2016 06:12PM
Terri, I don't pretend to have a good understanding of the sport of fighting as a whole, but people who just love to fight often make the best fighters. The Diaz brothers are an excellent example of this. Personally, I have much more respect for the fighters who want a fight vs. fighters who want a win.
Re: Offical MMA & UFC thread.
March 12, 2016 07:46PM
Ryan-
There is a big difference between fighters who enjoy combat, and the fighters who just like hurting people.
While the fighters who like hurting people are often good against poorly trained and skilled fighters they often are poor in skill themselves. Often they plateau quickly and never progress.
Those are the hyped up rage monkeys I saw a lot of.
Re: Offical MMA & UFC thread.
March 12, 2016 09:05PM
Terri, I don't understand how you're coming to the conclusions in your above post.

Quote
TerriLiGunn
While the fighters who like hurting people are often good against poorly trained and skilled fighters they often are poor in skill themselves. Often they plateau quickly and never progress.

This quote is making a pretty strong knowledge claim and I have absolutely no clue how you can substantiate it.
Re: Offical MMA & UFC thread.
March 12, 2016 09:30PM
Terri, there is no benefit to talking about people using terms like "hyped up rage monkeys" .

In the early UFC, there was an open call to anyone, including all manner of "expert" fighters, very few TMA "experts" actually entered, and the few that did were seriously mauled by people like Tank Abbot. Abbot had little (no?) actual training in any kind of dojo sense, but claimed some kind of wrestling background, but whose main ability was that he had no issue with taking a shot, and had a lot of power and simple body mass.

The same aspects was why Kimo came close to taking out Royce Gracie, and in fact exhausted him to the point he could not continue. It is speculated by most, and I would agree, that with say one week of prep time Kimo would have beat Royce in that encounter simply due to physical ability alone. While skill/knowledge plays a part, sheer size/power can compensate massively.

As the sport progressed the "skill" of the participants advanced as people trained for a specific rule set and in a short period of time you had people who basically "trained UFC" and were elite skill level in the restricted rule set of MMA. George Pierre for example could easily take out people who were in their own field elite level (wrestlers, kickboxers, TMA's) because his skill level at MMA specific engagements was higher and he simply has massive raw physical ability.

Very few TMA's can walk into a MMA bout and get anything but mauled by even fairly low level opponents simply due to the difference in rule change. This is why Gabi Garcia, an almost unstoppable monster in BJJ almost lost her first MMA fight because in MMA you can just get punched in the face and that doesn't happen in BJJ. Holly Holm is one of the greatest female boxers of all time yet she got taken out by a woman who has little to no "pedigree" but who just has extreme toughness/will, can take a hit and keep coming, and of course in boxing, there are standing 8-counts, and people don't choke you unconscious.

If you want to talk about "skill", well you have to basically look at what is being done. A NHL hockey player has great skill in skating, but it is very dissimilar to the skill in a figure skater. If you just swapped one for the other they both likely would struggle. This doesn't mean they are unskilled, it just means they are unskilled in that particular area. Tank Abbot may not look very good in a dojo, but 20 years ago, very few TMA's would have walked away from an encounter happy.
Re: Offical MMA & UFC thread.
March 12, 2016 09:56PM
Simple, they focus purely on offense. They are heavily unbalanced and impulsive fighters, who usually only get as good as speed, strength and muscle memory can take them.
They almost never think more then what is the best way to take out their opponent.
They lack a style that plans for anything, let alone failure.

I've spent years trying to understand the wheel of 8 concept of kung fu, how foot balance affects movement, and various concepts.

These guys just try and build the body with no thought to the more advanced concepts.

Frankly its something you just see as they move in a fight. Every little expression, and action seems obvious to me. But its training and experience that lets me read all this.

It would take watching a fight and pausing and rewinding to show you all that I'm talking about. Which is something I've done countless times by myself, and with my kung fu brothers and my seifu.

Those who enjoy combat will spend hours reviewing what their opponent does, but also what they do. Because they want to get better at not losing.

The last pro fight I watched was Mayweather Vs Pacquiao. I literally ticked everyone off when I told them Pacquiao was done around the 5th round, he was too badly hurt. He got hurt in the 4th, and it was over then. But out of a room full of Boxing fans I was the only one that saw it.


Mark shows he is a combat enjoyer, but it also shows he has thought about what he did wrong mentally, tactics, and physically. Not just in that fight, but concerning the whole night. Why because he doesnt want to lose.

Ive had more fun picking dirt out of my teeth after getting trounced then when I won, because I figured something out, or saw something new to work on.
Re: Offical MMA & UFC thread.
March 12, 2016 10:23PM
Terri, making more baseless claims does not validate your previous claims.
Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.

Click here to login