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Aeb-l chopper?

Posted by KWB 
KWB
Aeb-l chopper?
December 16, 2015 11:39PM
Aks recently got some aeb-l that is .195 thick. Now for general purpose chopper s7, 5160,1095 etc would be better however I am also concerned with rust. I think with experience with aeb-l it might make a good chopper. Toughness may be something to question but there are far worse options. And the places I buy steel from dont offer 420. One could argue try and find a supplier but in all honesty if usaknifemaker,aks, or njsteelbaron doesnt have what I want I will just do without ( my credit card number was recently defrauded so I am being very careful from now on. Got me for $500, bought stuff at a beauty shop in Madrid and a marketing company in Barcelona..working with my bank to get it back. Luckily I have numerous banks and accounts.)

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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/16/2015 11:46PM by KWB.
Re: Aeb-l chopper?
December 17, 2015 03:08AM
I saw that they had that and thought of Chum and his AEBL chopper. I think it would be fine Kyle based on what I've seen from Kyley in his machetes from it. LIke you said, maybe not the ideal steel, but certainly workable and with the advantage of the corrosion resistance.

I wonder if it can be left softer for increased toughness or if leaving it softer / tempering it down would introduce other problems?

_______________________________________________________________________________________________

Always in search of a good choppa'
Re: Aeb-l chopper?
December 17, 2015 12:45PM
Quote
KWB
Aks recently got some aeb-l that is .195 thick. Now for general purpose chopper s7, 5160,1095 etc would be better however I am also concerned with rust. I think with experience with aeb-l it might make a good chopper. Toughness may be something to question but there are far worse options.


Quote
C Amber
I saw that they had that and thought of Chum and his AEBL chopper. I think it would be fine Kyle based on what I've seen from Kyley in his machetes from it. LIke you said, maybe not the ideal steel, but certainly workable and with the advantage of the corrosion resistance.

I wonder if it can be left softer for increased toughness or if leaving it softer / tempering it down would introduce other problems?


If anyone here were to test any steel for chopping/batoning purposes, I would love to see it done with AEB-L, as so little has been done that I have found.

I don't have an AEB-L chopper. I was too slow in trying to get a hold of Kyley's AEB-L Pirate Chopper. Kyley used a thinner piece for that chopper, Kyley tends to make his edges thinner than most, and Kyley chopped at a metal chair with the AEB-L Pirate and it didn't take edge damage.

McCullen has shown how resistant to rust AEB-L is.

You should go for it Kyle. Hell, even MIke Stewart is using AEB-L now spinning smiley sticking its tongue out


Chumgeyser on Youtube
E-nep throwing Brotherhood. Charter Member
KWB
Re: Aeb-l chopper?
December 17, 2015 01:01PM
I am not sure if running it soft would be better as you will be taking away most of what makes aeb-l great. You will lose some strength and corrosion resistance. Plus they will be batch treated with the rest of the aeb-l I have. I dont really want soft aeb-l edc type knives.

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Re: Aeb-l chopper?
December 18, 2015 05:02PM
I was wondering the same thing.
Re: Aeb-l chopper?
December 18, 2015 05:33PM
Quote
C Amber


I wonder if it can be left softer for increased toughness or if leaving it softer / tempering it down would introduce other problems?

It is almost never the case this is a good idea. If AEb-L doesn't have the toughness, then use 12C27m, or 420HC, or similar.
Re: Aeb-l chopper?
December 18, 2015 05:48PM
Quote
CliffStamp
Quote
C Amber


I wonder if it can be left softer for increased toughness or if leaving it softer / tempering it down would introduce other problems?

It is almost never the case this is a good idea. If AEb-L doesn't have the toughness, then use 12C27m, or 420HC, or similar.
What about n690
Re: Aeb-l chopper?
December 18, 2015 06:03PM
n690 is essentially 440C. I am not sure why you would want that in a large chopper. It has almost the exact opposite set of properties.
Re: Aeb-l chopper?
December 18, 2015 06:07PM
Thanks Cliff. I wasn't sure.

_______________________________________________________________________________________________

Always in search of a good choppa'
KWB
Re: Aeb-l chopper?
December 18, 2015 08:40PM
And we circle back around to the orignial issue batch ht. Unless their is demand for such things which would be 20 blades, I will take the compromise for myself anyway. Yeah it's only $25 for ine blade. But if you keep that same theme over many knives you are talking some coin. Typically I get 20 knives ht for $100 plus the cost of insured shipping so round trip is anywhere from $180-$300.

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KWB
Re: Aeb-l chopper?
December 18, 2015 08:59PM
Cliff- what would be the pay off running aeb-l soft aside toughness?

Let me be clear- I work aeb-l and thought some chopper mixed in with others in the batch without putting out extra money to produce strict stainless choppers. I understand it is not ideal but it should work. Still better than super high carb........nevermind I should have higher aspirations.

Now if I had orders for 20 stainless choppers than I would have to search for a better option like 420hc.

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Re: Aeb-l chopper?
December 19, 2015 12:43AM
Kyle,

If AEB-L was chipping then you have to reduce the carbon in the martensite in order to increase toughness, hence the loss of hardness. Now it might be possible to also increase toughness with austenite grain refinement but Peter's or any commercial HT isn't going to be able to do it. In fact the practices for it are not even well developed but can be inferred from known practices on other steels.

In any case the first method would be simply make a decent test blade out of AEB-L with standard hardening and see what happens in use compared to another steel blade. Now realize that AEB-L is far tougher than many steels used in such knives like ATS-34, D2, etc. . It isn't like you chop it into wood and it explodes, people make chopping knives out of M4 and 10V and other really silly steels, it simply isn't a sensible choice when there are better options.

It would be like going to put wood in a fire and you have Balsa and Spruce and you load up the stove with Balsa. If that is all you have well you use it. But if you have both available you burn Spruce and sell the Balsa for modeling.

But again if AEB-l is the only stainless you have available, well it is much better than 440C and similar for such purposes just like SuperBlue would be better than D2, but less sensible than 5160. But if you don't have 5160, then sure use SuperBlue over D2. But for a custom knife maker using inferior materials is kind of an odd choice. How do you sell that to customers exactly?

Ok, I know there are better steels for this, and I could make you a better knife out of it with a more functional steel choice, but hey, this was readily available and easy to work with so here you go. Hey, it could always be worse.
KWB
Re: Aeb-l chopper?
December 19, 2015 01:29AM
Cliff- you are beginning to make me think of my own ht, but peters really has me spoiled. It's hard to get away from. Do you think aeb-l which readily chip if used in a chopper? Say 61hrc

As far as selling it- you basically said it exactly as I would. But honestly the way I would sell it is the same way I do with anything-Price. I really lost my pants on the 5160 still have some of them left I made the mistake of making the knives assuming the demand would be their afterwards and I was wrong and will never make that mistake again.

Now I still do make a bunch of knives as still need my name out there with a steady influx of new blades (shows a perception of expertise, while that makes almost no sense people think that way. He does this for a living he must be good. Bs has no bearing on it but hey work with what ya got.) Anyway the big blades cost big money all the way around even if the steel doesnt cost that much 23.5 in piece of 5160 from AKS was $16? But then you got handle material, sheath, sharpen, oh and freakin belts which may be the highest cost depending on how much you pay yourself.

Back to selling points- couple of things besides price I actually think it would work quite well. I really dont think it will make that big of a difference honestly. I really wouldnt say aeb-l is inferior to 5160 just has strengths in other areas. Now if this doesnt work well this is all moot. Is it ideal? No. And I think the fact that I would say that to a would be buyer shows the honesty behind it which some might buy on that alone. In fact I have had people buy knives and say " I dont need this knife, but I like how honest you are about stuff and dont bs thats why I am buying this." I was quite touched actually. How wrong would it be if I am open about it and say exactly what you said in the last paragraph and they buy it? Ill tell them story behind it, why I went with it, and how I think its a better option for the price. If someone was given the choice between aeb-l chopper for $x and 420hc for $50 more with 10 percent improvement (maybe) which would they choose typically. All the high carbide guys head are spinning after hearing that.

But again if I have the orders which call for a better option 20+ then yeah I am gonna go for 420hc or something. As at that point I no longer have to protect myself financially.

Let this be clear though- if this pans out to be a s##t sandwhich without the bread their is no way I am going to sell this to anyone peroid. However I see no problem with using a slightly "inferior" steel for the application if performance is within acceptable means and sourcing, ht, and batching are made easy. Acceptable- on par with my experiences with 5160,1095, s7.

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Re: Aeb-l chopper?
December 19, 2015 05:43AM
Kyle, slightly off-topic but where are you listing your blades? I check Gearbastion occasionally but it hasn't changed for a long time and I followed you on Instagram but not sure how much of your output is captured there?

-Nate
Re: Aeb-l chopper?
December 19, 2015 06:59AM
Quote
CliffStamp

But again if AEB-l is the only stainless you have available, well it is much better than 440C and similar for such purposes just like SuperBlue would be better than D2, but less sensible than 5160. But if you don't have 5160, then sure use SuperBlue over D2. But for a custom knife maker using inferior materials is kind of an odd choice. How do you sell that to customers exactly?
Ok, I know there are better steels for this, and I could make you a better knife out of it with a more functional steel choice, but hey, this was readily available and easy to work with so here you go. Hey, it could always be worse.

a big piece of the puzzle is not being able to find alternative steels. i searched high and low for suitable stainless and was only able to find aeb-l/13c26, 440C, and then the CPMs. i would think 440A or similar would work well, but no one is selling it in less than truckload quantities. i guess Kyle you could call every machine shop within 50 miles and see if anyone has any drops/scrap you could use.
scott



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/19/2015 07:12AM by oldsailorsknives.
Re: Aeb-l chopper?
December 19, 2015 10:19AM
Quote
KWB
Cliff- you are beginning to make me think of my own ht, but peters really has me spoiled. It's hard to get away from. Do you think aeb-l which readily chip if used in a chopper? Say 61hrc

Kyle, an edge will chip if it is loaded beyond the point it can deform without fracture. Will it chip when chopping? It will depend on what you chop, how hard and with what skill.

It will be similar in toughness, a little lower, than a 52100 blade at similar micro-structure.
Re: Aeb-l chopper?
December 19, 2015 10:24AM
Kyle,

I, too, would like to see a listing of what knives you have available.
KWB
Re: Aeb-l chopper?
December 19, 2015 01:20PM
nate- I currently dont have an updated gear bastion, after Kyley had to up the price I just couldnt justify it. That being said it is a buisness of sorts and needs to make money at least enough for it to support itself. Cant get upset cause my stuff isnt popular enough to afford the price. I put everything I do on ig, if I dont have any posts in a week or two it because I have nothing new to show.

Scott- I could prolly find 420hc It just wouldnt be where I like to buy from most likely. But yes, if a really want a steel I will pursue it till I find it.

Cliff- I guess testing is the only way for me to find out.

Curmudgeon- ig has most if not all my available knives for sale. Eventually as demand grows enough I will get a website.

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Re: Aeb-l chopper?
December 19, 2015 05:55PM
Thanks, good to know. I only started messing around on ig recently. Wasn't sure if I was missing out by not being on USN or something.

-Nate
KWB
Re: Aeb-l chopper?
December 19, 2015 06:16PM
USN is a great place to be but it is easy to get lost in the mix if you dont have a big name.

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Re: Aeb-l chopper?
December 20, 2015 02:54PM
Alpha Knife Supply is working on an AEB-L chopper for testing. https://instagram.com/p/_h2SoOinX0/]AKS AEB-L Chopper WIP[/url]
Re: Aeb-l chopper?
December 20, 2015 03:50PM
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Nate T
Thanks, good to know. I only started messing around on ig recently. Wasn't sure if I was missing out by not being on USN or something.
Ya I just joined. Seems llike there is some weird stuff on there but cool.
Quote
mccullen
Alpha Knife Supply is working on an AEB-L chopper for testing. https://instagram.com/p/_h2SoOinX0/]AKS AEB-L Chopper WIP[/url]
Funny I was going to post that too. They said they were shooting for 62RC. I wonder if they are going that high to see worst case in toughness.
KWB
Re: Aeb-l chopper?
December 20, 2015 07:42PM
I doubt it Chuck thinks very highly of aeb-l. One of his favorite steels.

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Re: Aeb-l chopper?
December 20, 2015 10:47PM
Quote
KWB
I doubt it Chuck thinks very highly of aeb-l. One of his favorite steels.
I guess I meant as someone who has expressed satisfaction with a higher RC chopper it seems a tad too high RC. I would think with that steel you would go lower. I figured at 62 the toughness would be pretty low?
KWB
Re: Aeb-l chopper?
December 20, 2015 11:48PM
Aeb-l at that hrc as far as I know should do quite well. I cant say without testing first. But it is far tougher than ats-34 and similar when I first started I made 2 choppers out of that and it wasnt like it was a bad blade, from my perspective I just didnt need the wear resistance just made correction harder.

A distinction should be made though- if you are cutting clean wood for the most part the steel wont really matter it's more about geometry and strength. But when you cut dirty wood such as you would with a tool all that wear resistance accounts for nothing.

I am thinking of making a hidden partial tang chopper. I dont see any reason why it wouldnt work so long as I use 1/4 ti tubes and some smaller stainless pins.

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Re: Aeb-l chopper?
June 02, 2016 09:09AM
All quiet on the aebl chopper front...

Yesterday I piggyback ht a 5.5" (11" OAL), 0.196" thick aebl bIade.

Testing specs: 64.5rc; edge geometry range 0.012-0.015"BET (behind edge thick), bevel range 14-15dps.

Result: passed on seasoned hardwoods. Got some minor deformation after chopped thin metal broom handle.

Probably, in a few months before I've time to make a 15-16.5" AOL, 0.196" thick chopper out of aebl with similar hrc & geometry.

Before then, please share your thoughts and show off some working big aebl blades.
KWB
Re: Aeb-l chopper?
June 02, 2016 10:18AM
I havent really had any shop time in the last 2 months. I have blades ready for ht including the aeb-l chopper. Its It's annoying not be able to be in the the shop but work before pleasure.

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Re: Aeb-l chopper?
June 02, 2016 02:44PM
In a quick lapsed of rational thinking, I tried hard baton my test blade through knotty seasoned 2.5" dia olive branch => resulted in a mondo half moon chip. A lower rc blade would mangle-BAR too.

I will make a 7.25" blade (slight longer) to test. Aebl look like a good large chopper candidate. If this turn out, I will grab a few wider & longer bars for making full-fledged choppers.
KWB
Re: Aeb-l chopper?
June 04, 2016 11:57AM
I see aeb-l more as a machete than chopper. My motivation was the rust resistance for relatively cheap and adequate performance.

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cKc
Re: Aeb-l chopper?
July 16, 2016 08:00PM
I'm curious where this thicker aebl stock is being sourced as traditionally it was only made in sheet form at 0.10" and less.

Is it aebl or 13c26 or similar from another manufacturers

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