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Anglo Arms Trekker - A Clone of a Clone (MTech 151)?

Posted by AdamJ 
Anglo Arms Trekker - A Clone of a Clone (MTech 151)?
September 28, 2014 10:10AM
I became aware of the MTech 151 recently. I also purchased a Mora 223 recently and was looking for a cheap, lightweight sheath for it.

While browsing the web site of a purveyor of cheap knives, looking for something with a blade length and width similar to the Mora 223 (so that I could dispose of the cheap knife and just keep the sheath!), I came across something that looked very familiar to the MTech 151. It was called the Anglo Arms Trekker.

I bought it, and happily the sheath fits the Mora nicely.

But rather than dispose of the cheap knife right away, I figured I'd do a preliminary review, and ask for advice on how to assess its quality, and for suggestings on how I go about slowly killing it.

I'm sort of hoping I've accidentally bought a half-decent knife for a bargain price, I can't kill it no matter how much I try, and I get to keep it and enjoy using it.

Note first the thread on this forum: [www.cliffstamp.com]. I think it's possibly worth starting a new thread for this rather than adding to that, since it's a different knife. One interesting thing I noticed is that Cliff pointed out two failings of the rubber handle on the MTech - the rubber wears out, and it is not bound solidly to the tang. This knife seems much better in this regard. Anyway, here goes:

Specs quoted on website of seller:
Large full tang bowie knife
420 stainless steel blade
5mm thick spine
Two tone G10 handle
14.5" total length
Weight: 571g / 20.14oz
Blade Length: 223mm / 8.78 inches

Some pictures and notes on mine:

The balance point seems to be 1cm in front of the finger guard. Full-flat grind, with a secondary bevel of about 1-2mm, I can't measure the angle.

Knife in sheath. Looks very similar to sheath pictures of the MTech 151. Is this a clue that the manufacturer of the knife is the same, or just the sheath?:


Pointing right.


Pointing left.


Compared to a popular knife (BK9) - length of cutting edge:


Compared to BK9 - total length:


Compared to BK9 - spine thickness. The Anglo Arms Trekker is indeed a bit thicker, as specs suggest:


Swedge: Looking down on the spine with the blade titled away slightly, to show the swedge. The spine is full-thickness for the first 5.75" from the guard, then spends 1.25" narrowing, then stays very narrow, tapering from about 1mm to immeasurable-by-eye (but not sharpened), over the final 3 inches to the tip:


After the hell has been disassembled out of it. Hex screws hold the scales on. A little bit of glue seems to have been used between the guard and the end of the scales, presumably to stop the guard rattling. No glue / welding holds the guard to the blade, it just slides off. Note that after re-assembling, there is no noticeable play in either the scales or the guard - i.e. things seem to have been machined quite precisely:


The handle scales are not nicely rounded, here is a shot of the profile, together with an indication of the dab of glue used between the scales and the finger guard. At least they are not square. They are not painful in use so far, but may get that way after a not of use?:


I thought the guard had been cut from the same stock as the blade at first, but it's a bit thinner:


The steel could be junk for all I know, but what is visible indicates that the manufacturer might actually be trying to do a decent job of making the knife last - note the rounded notch that the guard pushes up against, and the slight rounding where the blade starts. Hopefully this will help prevent a fracture starting at these problematic points? The other notch for the guard (not shown) is similarly rounded. A stronger design than the Cold Steel Trailmaster / MTech 151? Especially considering the tang remains at full thickness?:


The removable handle scales might lend it better to modding than the Trailmaster / MTech. One easy mod, is to simply reassemble without the hand guard, making it possible to 'choke up' on, and get the thumb on the spine right behind the force of a cut. This is not ideal, it is no longer held in the sheath securely without the finger guard. Also, I found after playing with it with the guard on, it is very easy to forget that the guard has been removed, and accidents are easy to imagine:


Initial Test:
It could not shave a single hair. It could slice through copier paper pretty decently.

Alterations Made Before Further Testing:
I put a convex edge on it with a worksharp knife and tool sharpener (I know, I know. It's a cheap knife. Leave me alone!). Not easy to grind compared to when I did this to a Tramontina Machete. Took many passes on the very coarse grit, wasn't counting, about 20 per side I think. Two per side were needed for the machete - big difference. Then about 10 passes per side with the medium grit, and 10 per side with the honing belt were applied. I used the 25dps guide.

First Test After Reprofile:
I don't know much about steels, but I've heard 420 being described as "junk" with some people stating that no matter how hard they try, they cannot put a sharp edge on it. After reprofiling, I concentrated the cutting tests on the first 2 inches of blade:
1) It could shave hair very easily.
2) I then cut about 20 wood shavings from a hardwood log, using the first 2 inches of blade.
3) I then cut through copier paper 10 times, sliding along the first 2 inches of blade while passing through the paper.
4) I then tried shaving hair again. It removed a lot of hair with ease.
So that was a simple test, but it has led me to believe the steel is not 'junk' in terms of holding an edge.

Second Test After Reprofile:
I went into the woods and found a fallen dead, hard conifer tree, about 6" thick. I tried to chop a v-notch through it. I compared it to a 14" Tramontina. There was no comparison. The wood was difficult to get through, I didn't bother going all the way with either tool. The Tramontina was removing enough wood that, had I been desperate to get through it, I would have persevered. With the Anglo Arms Trekker, I would not have continued. It was removing very little wood, and the shock was hurting my hand.

Further Tests:

This is where, since I am not an expert on knives / steels / handle materials, I could do with some suggestions.

If you wanted to see if the handles were indeed G10 as claimed, what would you do?
If you wanted to see if the steel was worth a damn, what would you do?
If you wanted to get a feel for whether you would venture into the wilderness and trust this knife, what would you do?
If you wanted to kill this knife, what would you do?
If this is 420 steel and the MTech is 440(A?), and both are made with toughness in mind, which do you think is more likely to experience brittle failure? There are accounts of the MTech 440 snapping.

Thank you for any suggestions, I will do my best to subject the knife to any tests you want and report back, but certain things I can't do, e.g. sharpen the edge to precise angles.
Re: Anglo Arms Trekker - A Clone of a Clone (MTech 151)?
September 28, 2014 05:40PM
I like it
Re: Anglo Arms Trekker - A Clone of a Clone (MTech 151)?
September 28, 2014 06:49PM
Nice review! Thank you for taking the time to do it.

_______________________________________________________________________________________________

Always in search of a good choppa'
Re: Anglo Arms Trekker - A Clone of a Clone (MTech 151)?
September 29, 2014 01:15AM
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dragonetti
I like it

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C Amber
Nice review! Thank you for taking the time to do it.

Thanks. This is a review-in-progress, I'm hoping people will give me ideas for tests / torture tests and we'll see how it holds up.

If nobody can think of anything novel, then I suppose the next step is to try batoning with it, that seems to have become the ANSI standard for testing a knife, especially a big one.

I do have some kiln-dried hardwood logs. That stuff has even caused my axe to bounce off it when I've tried to split it, and it's not even a splitting axe, it's a sharp one with a thin bit for limbing, you would expect it to at least penetrate. So I'll pick the biggest, nastiest looking pieces of that and see what happens. I don't normally do 'total-commitment batoning', i.e. I'll retrieve the knife if it looks like it's getting stuck. But in the interests of science, I'll try to force this knife through anything it meets.
Re: Anglo Arms Trekker - A Clone of a Clone (MTech 151)?
September 29, 2014 03:23AM
interesting

I wonder if you could grind the profile of the tang back to produce a narrow tang and if this would reduce the hand shock

What are the notches at the guard for?

Test for G10: sand away some of the material (inside/ tang side if you like) and look for a fine weave. I know it by smell but the smell function doesn't work here
Re: Anglo Arms Trekker - A Clone of a Clone (MTech 151)?
September 29, 2014 09:10AM
A few questions I would wonder about :

-is there sensible practical edge retention, how much chopping removes fine cutting ability (light grass)
-how does it sharpen with simple abrasives
-at what angle/thickness does the edge fold a knot
-what happens if you hit something hard like a rock when cutting close to the ground

As an aside it is an interesting blade as it has a fighting style grip but is promoted for woods use?
Re: Anglo Arms Trekker - A Clone of a Clone (MTech 151)?
September 29, 2014 05:32PM
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wnease
I wonder if you could grind the profile of the tang back to produce a narrow tang and if this would reduce the hand shock
I suspect I don't have the tools or the patience for that, but would love to try. I presume a power tool would be needed, given how long it took to convex the edge with the worksharp. What tool and method do people use to do something like that?

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wnease
What are the notches at the guard for?
An important point, not very clear from the photos, is that the notches occur at a point where the blade is widening quite rapidly. I've found it hard to describe this in words, but here is my take on the thoughts behind the design, using 3 diagrams about how the idea probably evolved:

A - Sliding the guard to the right, it would stop when the blade gets wide enough, but the stopping point (on horizontal axis) would be hard to control due to variances in blade width and guard-hole width.
B - Would enable the guard to stop at a precisely-controlled point, but would create an increased risk of blade fracture.
C - (The actual implementation) enables the guard to stop at a precisely-controlled point, i.e. against the rightmost edges of the notches, and the rounding limits the risk of fractures starting there. The rightmost edges of the notch are quite a bit further apart (from each other, in vertical axis) than the leftmost edges, due to the blade rapidly widening at that point, so there is a lot of room for variance in size of guard hole, I'd say at least 1mm at a guess.

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wnease
Test for G10: sand away some of the material (inside/ tang side if you like) and look for a fine weave. I know it by smell but the smell function doesn't work here
Thanks. I haven't sanded it yet, so I can't try to describe the smellsmiling smiley. I was thinking of sanding the butt-ends off the handles, to make it an extended tang knife, so I could hammer it nose-first into things. Unless G10 handles have a reputation of handling such abuse? If so then I won't bother.

I think I can see the weave you mention on the inside of the handles, even without sanding. When scraping my finger along it, it is also easy to feel. Here's a close up - is this what you would expect to see if G10?:

Re: Anglo Arms Trekker - A Clone of a Clone (MTech 151)?
September 29, 2014 06:19PM
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CliffStamp
A few questions I would wonder about :
Great, just what I am looking for.

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CliffStamp
-is there sensible practical edge retention, how much chopping removes fine cutting ability (light grass)
Added to test plan: I will sharpen to shaving sharp, then cut through the tips of ten ferns where the stem is around 1mm wide - I have a place I can go to for that. I will then try to chop through a 2" thick branch - I don't think I could tolerate more than that due to how bad it hurt last time. I will note where the sweet spot seems to be while chopping. I will then try to cut through the tips of ten ferns again, concentrating on the sweet spot that was used during chopping.
If my wrists can take it, I will repeat the chopping / slicing ferns cycle several times and watch for reducing ability to slice.

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CliffStamp
-how does it sharpen with simple abrasives
Another great idea, given the reputation for rubbish steels to lose their edge, I will need to take a sharpener if I take this on a hike, I won't be able to do it on a belt.
I did very briefly try a DC4, and it didn't make a noticeable difference. I am rubbish at freehand sharpening, but also the steel seems very hard to grind on a belt sander, so maybe it just will take too long to be practical by hand? I am thinking that the diamond side of the DC4 might be required even for touch-ups?
Added to test plan:
Can I get it from a bit dull to shaving sharp using DC4? Method: Get to shaving sharp on worksharp. Lightly stroke blade edge-first across ceramic rod until so it can no longer shave. Try to restore shaving sharpness with ceramic side of DC4. If this cannot be done, try the diamond side of DC4. If this improves sharpness, try to hone with ceramic side again.


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CliffStamp
-at what angle/thickness does the edge fold a knot
This is difficult for me to test, due to not having the equipment to sharpen to precise angles. I have sharpened on the 25dps guide on the worksharp. I could, after performing other tests, regrind using the 'kitchen knife' guide (20dps I think), and try aiming for knots while batoning. But the edge would still be convex, I guess this is not ideal for this sort of test?

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CliffStamp
-what happens if you hit something hard like a rock when cutting close to the ground
Added to test plan, in order of increasing brutality:

Realistic scenarios:

A - I will baton through some logs placed directly on gravel, and make no effort to stop the knife before bottoming out.
B - I will hit the edge against gravel with medium force ten times, in a way which might happen if holding a stick on the ground and trying to shave big lengths off it.
C - I will drop the knife from hip height, in a manner such as might occur out of shock when drunkenly stumbling around a forest in the dark at 2am looking for more wood to burn, and accidentally enter a scenario of mutual surprise with a badger. Or more precisely, I will drop it onto gravel repeatedly, until 10 tip-landings and 10 edge-landings appear to have occurred. Then I will examine the edge under a magnifying glass, photograph the damage, see if I can first restore it to paper-cutting sharp using a DC4, then see what happens when I sharpen it on a worksharp.

Unrealistic scenario:
D - I expect this could kill it outright, but I will put a large rock on the ground, and whack it once with all the force I would use while trying to chop through a log. Please let me know if this is over the top, if so what is an alternative brutal-but-reasonable scenario you can imagine - it's not something I've seen anyone do, baton through a concrete block yes, but driving the edge at speed at a rock, would one expect ANY knife to survive this? By survive, I mean not only remain in one piece, but for the damage to the edge to be so limited that it can be restored and re-used in any meaningful way?

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CliffStamp
As an aside it is an interesting blade as it has a fighting style grip but is promoted for woods use?
I hadn't realised the design was for fighting. I guess the hand guard would make it safe (for the user) while stabbing. A pity, I don't really like to think of it in that way. There were no scenarios for useage suggested on the web site that I saw it on, the biggest hint is the word 'Trekker' in the name, which I like, I presume that is intended to imply use as a knife for general tasks while hiking.
Re: Anglo Arms Trekker - A Clone of a Clone (MTech 151)?
September 29, 2014 07:20PM
Nice review AdamJ thumbs upthumbs up


Quote
AdamJ
Added to test plan, in order of increasing brutality:

Realistic scenarios:

A - I will baton through some logs placed directly on gravel, and make no effort to stop the knife before bottoming out.
B - I will hit the edge against gravel with medium force ten times, in a way which might happen if holding a stick on the ground and trying to shave big lengths off it.
C - I will drop the knife from hip height, in a manner such as might occur out of shock when drunkenly stumbling around a forest in the dark at 2am looking for more wood to burn, and accidentally enter a scenario of mutual surprise with a badger. Or more precisely, I will drop it onto gravel repeatedly, until 10 tip-landings and 10 edge-landings appear to have occurred. Then I will examine the edge under a magnifying glass, photograph the damage, see if I can first restore it to paper-cutting sharp using a DC4, then see what happens when I sharpen it on a worksharp.

Unrealistic scenario:
D - I expect this could kill it outright, but I will put a large rock on the ground, and whack it once with all the force I would use while trying to chop through a log. Please let me know if this is over the top, if so what is an alternative brutal-but-reasonable scenario you can imagine - it's not something I've seen anyone do, baton through a concrete block yes, but driving the edge at speed at a rock, would one expect ANY knife to survive this? By survive, I mean not only remain in one piece, but for the damage to the edge to be so limited that it can be restored and re-used in any meaningful way?

I like all of these test ideas, especially the badger test.

I don't think batoning wood with a rock is "over the top." Some steels can handle batoning with a steel mallet, so why not a rock?

If you really want to see how tough this knife is...

Stand about 30 feet, or more, from a cinder block target. Throw the knife as hard as you can at the cinder blocks, trying to get the knife to stick. It's probably best to be at a bit of an angle to the wall so the knife won't bounce back directly at you.

Do this 50 times or so. If the knife survives... you have found a bargain.


Chumgeyser on Youtube
E-nep throwing Brotherhood. Charter Member
Re: Anglo Arms Trekker - A Clone of a Clone (MTech 151)?
September 29, 2014 08:48PM
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AdamJ
This is difficult for me to test, due to not having the equipment to sharpen to precise angles. I have sharpened on the 25dps guide on the worksharp. I could, after performing other tests, regrind using the 'kitchen knife' guide (20dps I think), and try aiming for knots while batoning. But the edge would still be convex, I guess this is not ideal for this sort of test?

I don't mean to call you out or insult you, but 25 dps is a really high angle if your just chopping. Even 20 dps is way higher than what it needs to be. I would use 15 dps at most, I prefer 10 in all honesty (but I freehand everything so my angles are probably off I need to use a protractor).

There have also been issues noted with using power systems like the work sharp, as they are infamous for burning and damaging edges. I use power systems for regrinding and for repairing damage but you have to be careful of heat because it is very easy to overheat an edge.

I do like the testing your doing, and I noticed you mentioned ferns. What type of climate do you live in? I user to live in a subtropical environment (central NC) and the vegetation is very diverse there, so I never knew weather to use a machete or large knife, does this knife have the length and balance for machete type use?
Re: Anglo Arms Trekker - A Clone of a Clone (MTech 151)?
September 30, 2014 03:23AM
rock testing... depends on the rock. Most of the granite here contains a lot of quartz and is also very solid.

a grinder or belt sander will narrow the tang. You could even use a cutting wheel to rip narrow strips from each edge. I wouldn't thin the tang; just narrow it. The handle scales will sit proud of the tang after but you can narrow them too or just leave them if they fit your hand.

That looks like G10 or similar
Re: Anglo Arms Trekker - A Clone of a Clone (MTech 151)?
September 30, 2014 04:09AM
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Chum
I like all of these test ideas, especially the badger test.
That's encouraging, thanks. The close-encounter-with-badger test is surprisingly realistic for me, I think I'm a badger magnet or somethingsmiling smiley.

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Chum
I don't think batoning wood with a rock is "over the top." Some steels can handle batoning with a steel mallet, so why not a rock?
What I was proposing was pretending that a large rock was a branch, and chopping at it with the force I'd use for chopping a branch. This test concerns me, since most torture tests I've seen result in something other than the knife 'giving', e.g. concrete is chipped from a block, gravel is displaced from the ground, etc. But for this test, I can't see the energy being used for anything other than trashing the blade and my wrist.

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Chum
If you really want to see how tough this knife is...

Stand about 30 feet, or more, from a cinder block target. Throw the knife as hard as you can at the cinder blocks, trying to get the knife to stick. It's probably best to be at a bit of an angle to the wall so the knife won't bounce back directly at you.

Do this 50 times or so. If the knife survives... you have found a bargain.
Great idea. I can do something very similar to this locally, but substituting a sandstone wall for the cinder block. This seems an extraordinarily harsh test, but I believe I will do it, now you've put the idea in my head! I think I'll leave it till last though, as I can't imagine the knife being useable afterwards.

Added to test plan: Throw knife very hard at sandstone wall 20 times, spinning as if to stick. I don't think I'll risk 50, because although I have permission to fool around in the courtyard of an abandoned house, I don't want to attract attention with the noise.

What quality of knife would you expect to be repairable and useable after this? E.g. an average outdoor fixed-blade knife, or a knife designed for throwing and rough use (such as a Glock field knife), or an extreme-end-of-toughness one such as a Busse? Or are you saying that it would be extraordinary for any knife to be useable after this?
Re: Anglo Arms Trekker - A Clone of a Clone (MTech 151)?
September 30, 2014 04:18AM
Vandalism is not an acceptable way to test a knife. If it isn't your wall don't do that.

www.theflatearthsociety.org

BIGFOOT FINDS YOU, YOU DON'T FIND BIGFOOT!



IT IS THE E-NEP THROWING BROTHERHOOD
Re: Anglo Arms Trekker - A Clone of a Clone (MTech 151)?
September 30, 2014 06:15AM
Quote
dragonetti
I don't mean to call you out or insult you, but 25 dps is a really high angle if your just chopping. Even 20 dps is way higher than what it needs to be. I would use 15 dps at most, I prefer 10 in all honesty (but I freehand everything so my angles are probably off I need to use a protractor).
No insult taken, all advice welcome. The 25dps was not chosen based on experience, it was based on what the worksharp offers. I do not have enough experience to know what angle I prefer for what task. The worksharp does have a more acute 20 degree guide which it describes as being for kitchen knives. I could use this if the blade is not too thick to fit in it.

Given at the moment I only have the equipment and the (lack of) skill to be dependent on the worksharp and its angle guides, do you think I should regrind to 20dps before starting the torture tests?

Come to think of it, perhaps the 25dps edge is why it seemed so poor in my initial chopping test? I.e. not a lot of penetration, but instead a lot of shock hurting my hands.

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dragonetti
There have also been issues noted with using power systems like the work sharp, as they are infamous for burning and damaging edges. I use power systems for regrinding and for repairing damage but you have to be careful of heat because it is very easy to overheat an edge.
I am planning on starting a thread on the worksharp soon, if nobody beats me to it.

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dragonetti
I do like the testing your doing, and I noticed you mentioned ferns. What type of climate do you live in? I user to live in a subtropical environment (central NC) and the vegetation is very diverse there, so I never knew weather to use a machete or large knife, does this knife have the length and balance for machete type use?
I live in a temperate climate. People describe it as being a climate, and having vegetation, for which a machete is not appropriate. My experience is that it is a big place, and the seasons change, and you can't generalise. A recent trip, in which I fell in love with a 14" Tramontina, would be, in my opinion, impossible without a tool like that. River and waterfalls on left, cliffs to right, as little as 3 metres width of steep mountainous terrain in between them. In many places, so overgrown with thick brambles that, even if you could tolerate having your trousers and legs torn to pieces, and the pain, no ordinary person would have even had the leg muscles to power through the thorns. About 1.5 miles of this, you can imagine why I fell in love with the machete.

Re this particular knife, as it comes, the balance point is 1cm in front of the guard. It's nice to wave around in your hand, and I expect nice if you imagine fighting with it, but has no forward weight to assist with chopping. Conversely this makes it reasonably comfortable for light vegetation, i.e. it is easy to stop the swing. But its lack of length means that I would want to be wearing thick gloves if I was hacking through brambles etc.
Re: Anglo Arms Trekker - A Clone of a Clone (MTech 151)?
September 30, 2014 06:37AM
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Mark a
Vandalism is not an acceptable way to test a knife. If it isn't your wall don't do that.

Good point.

If you are going to use a knife for the harshest of work (ie. demolition) and you can repair it with a file afterwards... what else can you ask for?


Chumgeyser on Youtube
E-nep throwing Brotherhood. Charter Member
Re: Anglo Arms Trekker - A Clone of a Clone (MTech 151)?
September 30, 2014 07:12AM
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Chum
Quote
Mark a
Vandalism is not an acceptable way to test a knife. If it isn't your wall don't do that.

Good point.

If you are going to use a knife for the harshest of work (ie. demolition) and you can repair it with a file afterwards... what else can you ask for?

Vanadium carbides!!

www.theflatearthsociety.org

BIGFOOT FINDS YOU, YOU DON'T FIND BIGFOOT!



IT IS THE E-NEP THROWING BROTHERHOOD
Re: Anglo Arms Trekker - A Clone of a Clone (MTech 151)?
September 30, 2014 10:41AM
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Mark a
Vandalism is not an acceptable way to test a knife.
I agree, if you mean without permission. If you mean with permission also, then I think it depends. In this case, I don't think anyone will suffer as a result of what happens to the wall.

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Mark a
If it isn't your wall don't do that.
It isn't my wall, which would mean normally I wouldn't consider it, but as I mention, I have permission. To not do it would be waste of a great opportunity.

I was a bit surprised by the ethical concerns raised by this suggested test, but when I re-read my post, I think I have worked out why: was it because I said "I don't want to attract attention with the noise"? That probably suggests guilt.

If I offend anyone's ethics I would rather they contacted me by PM normally, since ethical debates can sidetrack a thread. However I am looking for suggestions on what people regard as resonable tests, so it's fair enough to deal with ethics as well as technicalities here, I suppose.

If this test upsets enough people, then I won't perform it, or at least I won't write it up here.

I hope people will want to make an informed decision, however.

I'll explain in more detail:

When I say I have permission to fool around, I mean, amongst other things, throwing knives at logs I have placed against a wall. The owner didn't care which wall, even if it was next to windows. As mentioned, the house and courtyard are abandoned. By that I mean, owned by a farmer, but not used, and he has the intent to let it fall to pieces.

When I say I don't want attract attention with the noise, what I was thinking was that, while throwing limply at logs is reasonably quiet, I expect pelting knives at the wall will create a sound that carries. There is a sort of communal dwelling about 150 metres away, and I don't want to alarm anyone who checks out the noise and thinks that one of their neighbours is a dodgy man of ill intent who has big knives.

I am a dodgy man with big knives, but I have no ill intent.

The ethics of this test are not clear-cut: there is a medium risk I could alarm people. Since there is nothing to stop anyone walking into the place, there is also a very small risk that someone could run in just as I throw the knife, and it bounces back and hurts them. These risks I will be consciously trying to minimise, as I expect we all would when throwing a knife.
Re: Anglo Arms Trekker - A Clone of a Clone (MTech 151)?
September 30, 2014 11:18AM
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wnease
rock testing... depends on the rock. Most of the granite here contains a lot of quartz and is also very solid.
Good point, I hadn't thought to specify. I have in mind not something like slate or sandstone, but instead something that is so solid, it would remain barely affected by the knife - i.e. the knife (and my wrist etc) takes all the damage. I won't know if I've picked a good rock for this until I try, I suppose.

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wnease
a grinder or belt sander will narrow the tang. You could even use a cutting wheel to rip narrow strips from each edge. I wouldn't thin the tang; just narrow it. The handle scales will sit proud of the tang after but you can narrow them too or just leave them if they fit your hand.
I see, that sounds doable, I thought you meant thinning it. I could do what you suggest with the coarse grit on the worksharp, it wouldn't matter that the tang gets rounded because as you say it will be inside the handles anyway.

If the knife survives the tests, then I expect I will fall in love with it, and try to customise it in this way, thank you for the suggestion.

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wnease
That looks like G10 or similar
Thanks.
Re: Anglo Arms Trekker - A Clone of a Clone (MTech 151)?
September 30, 2014 11:32AM
I think that was just a wording issue. I read it as "while I can be there I'm not sure I should be wrecking stuff."

Also there is very little that does not get discussed here. Ethics have become a favourite of many the zombie morality thread was a great example.
To me the ethics of what we do is as important as why. Let's say I was testing a skinning knife and I was skinning deer and tthrowing the meat away that could become an important part of the discussion.
Recently I posted a picture of a lift is 2x8 material with the caption "you can never have too much stock lumber to chop" or similar and Old Spice called me out on it.

Anyways test away. I will like to see the results of your wall impact testing. I have hit rocks while throwing knives and they do more damage to the knife than the knife does to them.

www.theflatearthsociety.org

BIGFOOT FINDS YOU, YOU DON'T FIND BIGFOOT!



IT IS THE E-NEP THROWING BROTHERHOOD
Re: Anglo Arms Trekker - A Clone of a Clone (MTech 151)?
September 30, 2014 11:44AM
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AdamJ

[...]

If this test upsets enough people, then I won't perform it, or at least I won't write it up here.

Everything you do, pretty much no matter what it is, will upset a great number of people. I have been contacted many times for example for daring to insult makers by "evaluating" their work, how could I, who have never made a knife, evaluate the work fo someone who has been doing so for 20+ years (and similar arguments). In fact I have recieved numerous emails/PM's for simply asking a question as to the angle/thickness/grit finish of an edge because again this doubts/disrespects a maker by implying it should be otherwise than how they are doing it.

In general the only thing which is required of you here is :

-be honest and be willing to discuss what you have done

and do so in a manner that isn't degrading to the people involved. If someone gets really offended they they should feel free to make a note, however the importance of that is relevant to the people involved. For example I don't get offended by (nearly useless term) people who cut up new materials, but I don't agree with generating massive piles of garbage to "test" a knife, especially when the work in done in such a way that the results are not even substantive. However it a far milder concern vs people who drive when they could walk, car-pool etc. . And at the end of the day these things are really only important to me anyway and it isn't the fact that this should de facto make them important to anyone else.
Re: Anglo Arms Trekker - A Clone of a Clone (MTech 151)?
September 30, 2014 12:36PM
Quote
Mark a
Ethics have become a favourite of many the zombie morality thread was a great example.
I haven't got a feel for this forum, yet. I'll get there. I like to get stuck into an ethical debate but am aware that some forums have special areas for those, in addition to low tolerance for off-topicness. I wasn't sure about this one. To be honest I haven't read around this forum, I just keep noticing it when googling for topics that interest me.

Quote
Mark a
To me the ethics of what we do is as important as why.
Agreed.

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Mark a
Anyways test away. I will like to see the results of your wall impact testing.
I am thinking I might buy a motion camera before commencing these tests. I only have a still camera, which has a poor after-thought ability to take very low res videos without sound. It's about 10 years old. I think for impact tests, people really need to see and hear the detail in order to get an instinctive feel for what the knife is being subjected to.
Re: Anglo Arms Trekker - A Clone of a Clone (MTech 151)?
September 30, 2014 01:08PM
Quote
CliffStamp
Quote
AdamJ

[...]

If this test upsets enough people, then I won't perform it, or at least I won't write it up here.

Everything you do, pretty much no matter what it is, will upset a great number of people. I have been contacted many times for example for daring to insult makers by "evaluating" their work, how could I, who have never made a knife, evaluate the work fo someone who has been doing so for 20+ years (and similar arguments). In fact I have recieved numerous emails/PM's for simply asking a question as to the angle/thickness/grit finish of an edge because again this doubts/disrespects a maker by implying it should be otherwise than how they are doing it.

In general the only thing which is required of you here is :

-be honest and be willing to discuss what you have done

and do so in a manner that isn't degrading to the people involved. If someone gets really offended they they should feel free to make a note, however the importance of that is relevant to the people involved. For example I don't get offended by (nearly useless term) people who cut up new materials, but I don't agree with generating massive piles of garbage to "test" a knife, especially when the work in done in such a way that the results are not even substantive. However it a far milder concern vs people who drive when they could walk, car-pool etc. . And at the end of the day these things are really only important to me anyway and it isn't the fact that this should de facto make them important to anyone else.

I've picked up on your attitude when I've bumped into your posts / videos on this forum and others over the last year or so. I think that's probably why this is the first knife forum I've joined.

Re my reaction to the ethics of a proposed test being questioned: I do find that I constantly listen to other people's ethics, weigh up good arguments from them, and use them to continually hone my own sense of ethics. But it is not good to abandon something purely because it upsets people, which is what I was suggesting. I need to get better at dismissing unsubstantiated arguments.

Then again, I think I handled it well. Rather than getting upset at someone thinking of me as a vandal and telling me how to behave (which was my immediate interpretation / reaction), I tried to understand what they may have been thinking and why, I elaborated on the detail of what I was proposing, and sure enough there had been a misunderstanding.
Re: Anglo Arms Trekker - A Clone of a Clone (MTech 151)?
September 30, 2014 04:06PM
Quote
CliffStamp
I have been contacted many times for example for daring to insult makers by "evaluating" their work, how could I, who have never made a knife,

Just make a knife and let us criticize the hell out of it.


Adam... I want video of the wall throwing. If it's not illegal do it. That's my moto.


Chumgeyser on Youtube
E-nep throwing Brotherhood. Charter Member
Re: Anglo Arms Trekker - A Clone of a Clone (MTech 151)?
September 30, 2014 05:08PM
Cliff, you have made a knife the tension rod one you made years ago. Just compare all the knives to that.

www.theflatearthsociety.org

BIGFOOT FINDS YOU, YOU DON'T FIND BIGFOOT!



IT IS THE E-NEP THROWING BROTHERHOOD
Re: Anglo Arms Trekker - A Clone of a Clone (MTech 151)?
September 30, 2014 06:01PM
btw Cliff, make a chopper.


Chumgeyser on Youtube
E-nep throwing Brotherhood. Charter Member
Re: Anglo Arms Trekker - A Clone of a Clone (MTech 151)?
October 02, 2014 05:08AM
I'm afraid testing this knife is going to be a bit of slow-burn process, but I think it's worth waiting to get hold of a video camera before I start.

Anyhow, three things for anyone interested in this:

1) I am going to regrind to a '20dps' convex edge on the worksharp before commencing, thanks to the comment about 25dps being more obtuse than necessary for chopping. I have found 25dps on a Tramontina to be fine for both brambles and chopping, but I have never tried 20dps, maybe it will be even better. Thinning the edge may not be ideal for a knife that is about to be deliberately abused, but before the abuse tests I am going to perform some normal-function tests also.

2) I am borrowing a video camera, I should get hold of it tonight, and maybe even get some time to learn how to use it, get videos on the PC and edit them. I won't be filming anything over the next couple of days however, as I have a visitor to entertain who isn't exactly into knives.

3) I have, about 10 minutes ago, ordered an MTech 151 (I believe - it was called the MTechTrail Blazer, but seems identical to what I have seen of the 151 on the Internet). They are damned hard to get hold of where I am, only one online shop in the country selling them, and they have been out of stock for months. Anyway, this is good timing. I will take some side-by-side photos. I won't be torture testing them both, however, because I don't have the money to keep wrecking knives - plus the MTech has had plenty of testing by others.
Re: Anglo Arms Trekker - A Clone of a Clone (MTech 151)?
October 02, 2014 05:19AM
Just as a point, it might be useful to actually check that the angle is actually 20 or 25 as the WS notes as they are not always as exact as you might think.
Re: Anglo Arms Trekker - A Clone of a Clone (MTech 151)?
October 03, 2014 03:43AM
Quote
CliffStamp
Just as a point, it might be useful to actually check that the angle is actually 20 or 25 as the WS notes as they are not always as exact as you might think.
Much as I value the worksharp for its ability to get quick and consistent results for any one given knife, I think there are issues with it that make it impossible to get the same edge angle across all knives, plus the angle of the edge it gives is practically impossible to measure. I don't want to go into this 'in passing' here because it could be that I am not understanding how to use it properly, I would rather start a dedicated thread, with photos, perhaps a sort of review.

I don't have time to do that now, but when I do, I would appreciate any feedback as to whether I am doing anything wrong, how to measure the resultant angle it gives, etc.
Re: Anglo Arms Trekker - A Clone of a Clone (MTech 151)?
October 03, 2014 11:48AM
Here is about the simplest way to measure edge angles on sharpened knives :





This measures the final apex angle.
Re: Anglo Arms Trekker - A Clone of a Clone (MTech 151)?
October 03, 2014 02:04PM
Quote
CliffStamp
Here is about the simplest way to measure edge angles on sharpened knives :





This measures the final apex angle.

That's bloody brilliant, thank you.

Two reasons why I didn't think I'd be able to measure the angle: One, I wasn't sure what the definition of the edge angle would be on a convex edge, since it changes continually. Two, I found a method described using calipers, where the height of the edge grind, and the thickness of the blade at which the edge grind starts, are both measured, then trigonometry is used. But a) that only really made sense for v-edges, and b) my results with the worksharp always removes more metal on one side than the other, ie the height of the edge grind isn't the same on both sides (I know why, and will be covering this if I get around to reviewing it).

I don't have the type of sharpener in your video, but still I can apply what I've learned from it, please correct me if I'm wrong:

1) The definition of the edge angle for a convexed edge is, quite simply, the angle at which it starts to cut, or 'dig into' something like newspaper. I.e. the angle at the very edge that actually contacts the materials being cut, which you call the final apex angle.

2) I can therefore, wrap newspaper tightly around any perfectly straight rod, and slide a knife down it, constantly raising the angle of the rod until the knife grabs. Holding the rod at exactly that angle, I could then plot it on a wall / paper behind, repeat the process for the other side, and use a protractor to measure the angle.

Simple, but I'd never have thought of it, I love it. Unless I've overlooked something, then I hate it.
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