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Kyle's Blades sent to me for playing around with

Posted by cKc 
cKc
Kyle's Blades sent to me for playing around with
April 11, 2015 06:34AM
Well.. I have had these for a long time without much said, and I've used them on and off during these times. So a review will exist.. Watch this space... Everything is in Island Time.

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KnivesAndStuff (YoutTube)
cKc
Re: Kyle's Blades sent to me for playing around with
April 19, 2015 01:57AM
Kyle sent me a couple of knives to try out for feedback a while ago.. Quite a long while ago in fact, because I've been out of action, and out of using knives for quite a long time.

I'll freely admit that the two knives have not had exhaustive hours of time put into using them, but then my style of use/ review and reflection are very different for the raw numbers game Cliff does so well. Mine is more an approach of useability, and comfort (personal comfort) in using a knife.. this is the desire to keep using it based on its attributes.

so the first of the 2 knives sent to me is this one



I don't actually recall the steel type, or the heat-treat in detail, but most of those attributes are not too important to me at this point in time.

The knife is very sharp. Kyle did a great job in the sharpening, and the grinds of this knife are also a very thin hollow grind, with a fine cutting edge. I have not measured it, but its much thinner edge bevel than either my Dozier Skinner, or Sebenza.

This is where a bit of personal bias may come into it, based on Hollow Grinds, so you might have to accept a portion of bias here. As thin as it is on the edge, its hollow, and it curves out to meet the primary bevel 3/4 of the way up the knife. I'll say the bad about this, before I say the good, because the bad is something that wont effect many people, and its the same on all hollow ground knives I've used. there are certain types of cuts that always have an issue with the grind of the knife making turning cuts. a convex knife that is too rounded in soft woods is easily shown to cut a curve through the wood, and then skip out. this can be a little but of a pain on a thick convex, and a mild one on a lean convex. but in each case the curve is outwards, towards the side with the least binding forces, and you can clean up the mistake which is usually not enough material being removed from the true straight cut.

with the hollow grind on this knife, and most hollows I've used, the issue with soft cuts is that it wants to turn into the cut, away from the least resistance. my observation, which might need corroboration is that the top of the hollow grind towards the spine is acting like a steering mechanism because as subtle as it its, the angle of deflection against the cut material is increasing, so as the material with less binding force on the outside of the cut releases pressure the inside force against the top of the bevel is slowing the knife down more on that side causing the edge to turn in. The physics of a turning rudder are probably not the same, but in this case the effect seems to be.. no matter how small.

perhpas a better analogy is jumping off a roof between two incredibly high tall louvres with your arms outstretched so that each arm hits an open flap on each side at the same time slowing you down and keeping you falling in places.. if you pull your right arm in, then as soon as your left arm hits the left flap, your whole body is going to go that way because the force on your one arm will pull it that way..

with a convex, pretend you dive head first off the building and both shoulders are slapping those flaps equally.. both shoulders want to bounce away from the side it hits, but the bounce is equal on each side.. now suddenly take away the flaps on the left, removing that force, and as soon as the right side of your body hits those flaps the energy wants to push you to the left..

so basically its one force or the other.. I like flat, or just shy of flat convex because it always pulls away from the cut or stays true with a little pressure, but with the tendancy to bite out, not in.

How this relates to the knife is that in cutting things like carrots, it was quite noticable. in my fishing trips when trying to fillet bait I often with the hollow ground accidentally went off the fillet, through the spine, and out the other side of the fish.. This almost never happens with a flat or convex knife in my experience.

so thats the hollow issue aside..

The knife itself.. The hollow is very thin.. much like Murray Carter style. In fact I have a carter with a similar thickness and geometry and bevel height, and Kyle's is sitting right there at the same level. the hollow is similar depth.. basically, I could almost say it was Carter Ground they are so similar. (and yes. the carter cuts the exact same way)

so.. As fine as the edge is, It cut through a lot of fine fish bones without any issue. there is no micro chipping, or any other sign of edge degradation from cutting into wharf wood through fish. that is a very good sign to me.

The Polish, and finish of the knife is fantastic, and this is a case where the mirror can have a benefit.. the fish oil, guts and junk all wipe off much more easily, and the steel as appeared to be the most salt water corrosion resistant of any knife I've taken and not cleaned too well. I'm guessing from the other stainless steels I've ruined that this is in part the finish quality.

In normal use as a utility knife, cutting rope, cardboard, paper, etc etc where you dont have those soft deep cuts, this knife cuts exceptionally well. And Kyle did a video showing it cutting through some incredibly hard plastics (that he included in the box so I could see) and the fact that it could cut them right through is a great sign that Kyle is building knives to do work, because if I took any factory knife I own like a Sebbie, Benchmade etc only a few spydercos I have would be able to cut into that material more than a few mm without binding up.

Jimping.. I hate it typically, except for when I like it aesthetically.. This is probably because most jimping is just a bastard file on a knife. the checkered pattern Kyle applied can feel abrasive if you slide back and forward, but its such a fine pattern that your finger doesn't actually want to slide, and when it does, instead of ripping you a new one like the deep angled ones on some, its more like the light sandpaper burn feeling you get from gun stippling, or diamond knurling on a pipe. it looks cool, and its very effective. he has a hammer beaten cosmetic look to the rest of the spine which is cool, and i like it, but I'd have been equally happy with a flat top, or some more of that jimping about an inch long, and 3/4" away from the tip to hold my index finger in place. its very slippery polished as it is, and I cannot apply safe pressure there for tip cuts.

The handle.. its ok, but its not quite right for me. I have been trying to pin point exactly why, but I still cannot. its short so that my pinky sticks off the back when held the way this knife wants to be held, but I have many knives like that. It's not a knife ideally suited to a reverse grip, but thats ok, as it doesn't seem made for that style of cutting. The reality is that just something about the specific shape of this handle isn't quite right for my hand, but it still feels comfortable. The real problem for me, that prevents me using it outdoors is the incredibly fine finished carbon fibre. its just too slick. even the slightest wetness, and especially dealing with fishing with oil, blood, water, and slime.. its just not easy to keep hold of it, even with the handle shape.

Personally, It take the entire handle and make it a little heigher proportionately and slightly longer, and use a material that looks good with a bit of roughing up..

Also.. the balance is great, just on/behind the first finger, which is a result of the nice taper on the tang down to less than 1mm.

so all in all, its really a nice knife, but I'd need a different handle to want to use it a lot., and I think I'd like the hollow to go at least 20% higher than it is with a double hollow grind blended in the middle.


The next knife, will be written up later.

It's been fun using these, and Kyle really shows talent

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KnivesAndStuff (YoutTube)
Re: Kyle's Blades sent to me for playing around with
April 19, 2015 09:54AM
That is an interesting argument on control. I don't think I have seen someone bring up that aspect before in an extensive manner.
Re: Kyle's Blades sent to me for playing around with
April 19, 2015 10:32AM
Nice work so far! I find that hollow grinds excel in shallow cutting. I have to try some deeper cuts to see if I can notice the steering.
cKc
Re: Kyle's Blades sent to me for playing around with
April 19, 2015 01:33PM
i only notice it in soft food type applications. poosibly because i use a delicate control hand in those types of applications to let the tool do the work

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KnivesAndStuff (YoutTube)
Re: Kyle's Blades sent to me for playing around with
April 20, 2015 07:39AM
Nice write up Kyley, and very nice looking knife Kyle.




Quote
cKc
but I'd have been equally happy with a flat top, or some more of that jimping about an inch long, and 3/4" away from the tip to hold my index finger in place. its very slippery polished as it is, and I cannot apply safe pressure there for tip cuts.

This is interesting. So you are cutting, sometimes, like you are pointing with your index finger, and it is slipping off? Just trying to visualize this.


Chumgeyser on Youtube
E-nep throwing Brotherhood. Charter Member
KWB
Re: Kyle's Blades sent to me for playing around with
April 20, 2015 10:02AM
I would agree with all what you have written. I made this knife as an edc knife just for general utility in a light capacity with still have aesthetics flare.

The steel is cts-xhp at 63 hrc by PHT.

Contact 570-486-9095
Re: Kyle's Blades sent to me for playing around with
May 06, 2015 07:50AM
Kyley,
Have you tried on hollow grinds, to round the transition of the top of the hollow grind and the bottom of the spine? I have found that with knives that have a small hollow grind, like some paring knives or Moras, that this helps with deeper cutting. Let me know what you think, if I get around to it I will try to post a picture with some examples.
Re: Kyle's Blades sent to me for playing around with
May 06, 2015 02:28PM
Here's the picture of the hollow grind with the shoulders rounded, there are different degrees of it done, some more, some less.

[instagram.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/06/2015 02:28PM by jasonstone20.
cKc
Re: Kyle's Blades sent to me for playing around with
May 07, 2015 01:26AM
yes, it does help a lot, because what you are doing is reducing the thickness on the edge bevel, and reducing the angle of deflection at the top. similar to on many production knives just knocking off the corner befween the blade and the edge bevel can have a big performance impact.

i would say the most extreme case was a CRK Sebenza, which I was tired of hearing people say is a thin hollow grind, so easier to sharpen, so I ground off steel until the edge apex and overall thickness is the same as one of my knives, and funnily enough, there was almost no hollow left to the knife, and so it did cut a heck of a lot better grinning smiley

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KnivesAndStuff (YoutTube)
cKc
Re: Kyle's Blades sent to me for playing around with
May 07, 2015 01:28AM
I'd also point out, that by knocking off those parts to make it work nicer, its simply making it less hollow..

Again though.. if a knife was hollowed out in the same ratio as I add convex, then what you'd end up with is just enough steel removed to make sharpening easier than a flat grind because of the contact on the stone, and a slightly less thick edge backing

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KnivesAndStuff (YoutTube)
Re: Kyle's Blades sent to me for playing around with
May 07, 2015 01:43PM
Is that the Sebenza you did the YouTube video of, that you ground almost flat?
cKc
Re: Kyle's Blades sent to me for playing around with
May 07, 2015 10:06PM
Yea

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KnivesAndStuff (YoutTube)
KWB
Re: Kyle's Blades sent to me for playing around with
October 15, 2015 08:43PM
any updates on this Kyley?

Contact 570-486-9095
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