Welcome! Log In Create A New Profile

Advanced

OKC knives bend in bare hands

Posted by dingy 
OKC knives bend in bare hands
January 14, 2018 12:04AM
Hi you all.

this is my thread in OKC sub-f on BF:
[www.bladeforums.com]

I bend some of my OKC knives with bare hands , is it normal ?
i am confused now , what do you guys here think that ?

dingy



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/14/2018 12:51AM by dingy.
Re: OKC knives bend in bare hands
January 14, 2018 04:13AM
It would appear the bends are occurring in the tang area from. Perhaps they are left unhardened?

_______________________________________________________________________________________________

Always in search of a good choppa'
Re: OKC knives bend in bare hands
January 14, 2018 04:33AM
sp2 ,sp6 and m3 bend in the middle of handles, i guess the processing hole is the factor for lossing strengh.
and my 499s bend in transtion of tang and blade .
The tangs bend and there is no sign of flexibility , maybe annealing .



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/14/2018 04:41AM by dingy.
Re: OKC knives bend in bare hands
January 15, 2018 08:26PM
"Our (and the military) philosophy is that it is better to have a soft tang (that can be re-bent to straightness) than a hardened tang that is broken making a useless knife."

the company told me that the soft tang is made for and designed for .
but i still have questions to ask :

1.knife breaking mostly occurred at transition of tang and blade ,so leaving a soft tail does it really help ?
2.If the blade was fully hardened , and is it prone to get break , or damage at the tang tail ?
Re: OKC knives bend in bare hands
January 16, 2018 09:47AM
Quote
dingy
"Our (and the military) philosophy is that it is better to have a soft tang (that can be re-bent to straightness) than a hardened tang that is broken making a useless knife."

They should maybe read up on tempering, it was only discovered ~3000 years ago.

(A hardened and tempered tang would be so strong you could not bend it, nor could you fracture it by beating on it with a hammer, just harden it as a spring)
Re: OKC knives bend in bare hands
January 16, 2018 05:46PM
Quote
CliffStamp
Quote
dingy
"Our (and the military) philosophy is that it is better to have a soft tang (that can be re-bent to straightness) than a hardened tang that is broken making a useless knife."

They should maybe read up on tempering, it was only discovered ~3000 years ago.

(A hardened and tempered tang would be so strong you could not bend it, nor could you fracture it by beating on it with a hammer, just harden it as a spring)

yes that exactly what i think .

last night i stripped my sp5 that removed off rubber handle some days before, and use sand paper 1500,2500,3000&5000 items to polish the tang of my stripped sp5 , and there is no queching line on the tang.
as told by Toooj from OKC there should be a line . right?
then i use a knife to do push cut on the tang with a controlled way , what i found is that the knife can not cut off crumbs on the tang , i think this sp5 is Unanimously hardened.

those signs are contradicted with Toooj said.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/16/2018 06:00PM by dingy.
Re: OKC knives bend in bare hands
January 16, 2018 06:12PM
Re: OKC knives bend in bare hands
January 16, 2018 07:58PM
He told me that all sp line are diffriendly hardened and this was made for , cause they think of that "Our (and the military) philosophy is that it is better to have a soft tang (that can be re-bent to straightness) than a hardened tang that is broken making a useless knife. "is right for hard use knives.

but i found my sp5 that i can not bend , is Unanimously hardened.

and what do you guys and Cliff think ?

i doubt soft tang is better than right hardened ones , cause soft tang have big drawbacks :
1. less strengh means easy bend;
2.easy bend and easy back to true ,then easy fatigue .
3. there is no gain (benifits) from leaving soft tang tail , cause the critical area is transition of blade and tang.

i do think properly harden tang is alot better then soft ones.

in that thread Steely_Gunz said that he love kukri leaving a soft tang is more suitable for use,
soft tang make a good traditional kukri ,cause there is a alot thicker and wider neck(blade and tang transition) compare to other knives's , and hard handle ,so soft tang on kukris is not a problem.

for example i bend kabar 1217 ,1250, mark 1,and ontario 499 few day ago , those tiny knives are soft tang , and there is no sign of flex , and relatively easy to bend and back to true , do you guys really think of narrow and thiner and soft(overly soft ) with leather stacked handle are good or better ?



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/16/2018 08:55PM by dingy.
Re: OKC knives bend in bare hands
January 16, 2018 08:46PM
all in all , i am still have questions here:
1.cause there are fully unanimously hardened tang on sp5 as i had proven last night , so i do not think they leaving soft tang on knives is made for and designed for, i thought that those knives i bend are bad lemons.
2. i do not think of leaving soft tang on knife , especially when talk about small knives as ontario 499 , is better way .
3. Annealing tang is more easy to get bend and back to true , so it is easy to fatigue than properly handened tangs.

when in old days , leaving soft tang maybe is a wiser way for preventing breaking accourred, cuase there are flaws and defects in steel usually.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/16/2018 08:52PM by dingy.
Re: OKC knives bend in bare hands
January 17, 2018 12:18AM
4.two of my 499's tangs are too soft , and there is no sign of flex , and the OKC told me that those knives are not bad.
Re: OKC knives bend in bare hands
January 17, 2018 09:40AM
dingy,
I have a few Ontario's that I will try to see if they bend also. On the SP5 there does look to be a color change or difference right before the first hole going from left to right on the tang, the one closest to the blade.

"I am still discussing issues of steels and performance at this stage."
--Cliff Stamp

"Cause geometry cuts, .....steel determines the level and the duration"
--Roman Landes

"But in general, I'm all about high performance, Ergos, safety. That's why I've been accused of 'designing in the dark' "
--Sal Glesser
Re: OKC knives bend in bare hands
January 17, 2018 09:56AM
dingy,
I tried to bend the handles on my SP10, FF6, and D-Guard 18" Machete, no luck. I think the Freedom Fighter (FF) series has different handles than the SP(Special Purpose?) series. The FF series has a metal butcap and round, rubber like MK 2 handles.

"I am still discussing issues of steels and performance at this stage."
--Cliff Stamp

"Cause geometry cuts, .....steel determines the level and the duration"
--Roman Landes

"But in general, I'm all about high performance, Ergos, safety. That's why I've been accused of 'designing in the dark' "
--Sal Glesser



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/17/2018 10:00AM by jasonstone20.
Re: OKC knives bend in bare hands
January 17, 2018 07:00PM
jasonstone20,

"On the SP5 there does look to be a color change or difference right before the first hole going from left to right on the tang, the one closest to the blade. "

i think it is paint on it , cause i sand it off with sandpaper , after sanding there is no darker line yet.


"I tried to bend the handles on my SP10, FF6, and D-Guard 18" Machete, no luck. I think the Freedom Fighter (FF) series has different handles than the SP(Special Purpose?) series. The FF series has a metal butcap and round, rubber like MK 2 handles."

i have one ff6 , but did not try bend yet. i will try later.
the butcap on ff6 is screwed on , does not pined on the tang like MK2.


knives that i had tryed and got bending are: kabar1217 , kabar 1250 , kabar mk1,two ontario 499s, ontario sp2, sp6 , and m3.
knives that get bend easily in my bare hands are : kabar 1250 , kabar mk1 and two ontario 499s.
knives that hard to bend are ontario sp2, sp6 , and m3.

kabar1217 , kabar 1250 , kabar mk1,two ontario 499s, ontario sp2, sp6 , and m3 those knives those knives i get bend use my bare hands that dose not have flex , all of them can not spring back to zero.

knives that i have been trying ,but can not bend are : sp10 , sp5 , sp5, 3 ontario machetes ,kabar 1259 ,kabar heavy bowie and condor dundee bowie.
Re: OKC knives bend in bare hands
January 17, 2018 09:04PM
i bend my ff6,and there is no flex as expected.
Re: OKC knives bend in bare hands
January 17, 2018 11:14PM
Re: OKC knives bend in bare hands
January 18, 2018 03:14PM
Quote
dingy
"Our (and the military) philosophy is that it is better to have a soft tang (that can be re-bent to straightness) than a hardened tang that is broken making a useless knife."

You can quote me when will talk to them for the next time..

"Do You know that repeated bending of an pearlitic phase of steel that is hardenable to martensitic phase
equals cold woking and eventually will lead to micro voids / cracks and fatique fracture ?
This is going to happen at lower bending force and with less cycles (by millions)
than with hardened and tempered steel."

www.instagram.com/jscuttingtools
Re: OKC knives bend in bare hands
January 18, 2018 05:36PM
OK, man.

look at what i have been told by OKC :

"All of the pictured knives are made from carbon steel. Ontario uses a salt pot to harden all of it's carbon steel blades. The blades are racked and placed in the salt bath. The depth of the blades in the salt varies depending on the length. The salt usually covers the blade and the tang/blade shoulder. The remainder of the tang is not immersed in the salt so it will not get to Austenizing (hardening) temperature and will not fully harden during the quench. So the end of the tang gets progressively softer toward the pommel end. Differential hardening is the technical term.
Our (and the military) philosophy is that it is better to have a soft tang (that can be re-bent to straightness) than a hardened tang that is broken making a useless knife.

When the blade is hardened in the salt pot, the blade is fully immersed vertically and receives the full amount of heat, the tang is held out of the salt and doesn't get the full heat of the pot. What we want, after the blade is quenched, is for the blade area to be at full hardness, the blade/tang shoulder at spring hardness and the hardness to decrease as it goes toward the pommel end of the tang. Somewhere in the middle of the tang, the hardness is basically soft. The Blade/Tang shoulder is probably the most critical area in regards to breakage so we want that area semi hard AND strong. It is at what we call spring hardness. All of this is determined by how far we immerse the blade into the pot and is accomplished through trial and error. Once we get the proper distance it becomes the spec. Each blade is different.
If we hardened the entire tang, there would be warpage that we would not be able to remove from the tang and your knife would most likely be bent and you would not be able to straighten it. A soft tang allows us to tweek the tang for straightness. Also a hardened tang could break, rendering the knife useless.
I hope all of this helps."

my two 499s and ff6 are easily bending at The Blade/Tang shoulder , and this area is not strong and never spring back.
and OKC told me that "The knives in question are not bad."&" Each blade is different".



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/18/2018 05:46PM by dingy.
Re: OKC knives bend in bare hands
January 18, 2018 06:48PM
dingy,
How did you get the FF6 to bend? I tried to bend mine just with my hands and wasn't successful. I will try again.

edit:
I tried again, no luck. I even put it across my knee, and still couldn't bend it.

"I am still discussing issues of steels and performance at this stage."
--Cliff Stamp

"Cause geometry cuts, .....steel determines the level and the duration"
--Roman Landes

"But in general, I'm all about high performance, Ergos, safety. That's why I've been accused of 'designing in the dark' "
--Sal Glesser



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/18/2018 06:53PM by jasonstone20.
Re: OKC knives bend in bare hands
January 18, 2018 07:49PM
hahaasmiling bouncing smiley

it is just about how much muscule power you got.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/18/2018 07:51PM by dingy.
Re: OKC knives bend in bare hands
January 18, 2018 08:54PM
dingy,
Right? LOL!

"I am still discussing issues of steels and performance at this stage."
--Cliff Stamp

"Cause geometry cuts, .....steel determines the level and the duration"
--Roman Landes

"But in general, I'm all about high performance, Ergos, safety. That's why I've been accused of 'designing in the dark' "
--Sal Glesser
Eee
Re: OKC knives bend in bare hands
January 19, 2018 12:56AM
It’s interesting that both Rowan (Esee) and Syco (Busse) on occasion use differential heat treatment but this is not expected or noted behaviour of either brand. Both brands have also demonstrate a willingness to replace defective knives. I will try bending my Esee when I get home.
Re: OKC knives bend in bare hands
January 19, 2018 01:28AM
seriouly , man?

bend a esee with your bare hands ?
Eee
Re: OKC knives bend in bare hands
January 19, 2018 02:10AM
Quote
dingy
seriouly , man?

bend a esee with your bare hands ?

It’s an Esee3 so only 1/8th (3.2mm) thick. But that is really the point, I’m not expecting to be able to bend even a thin piece of 1095 which has been differentially heat treated by Rowan which makes me wonder why it apparently normal for OKC
Re: OKC knives bend in bare hands
January 19, 2018 05:18AM
Quote
dingy
The Blade/Tang shoulder is probably the most critical area in regards to breakage so we want that area semi hard AND strong. It is at what we call spring hardness.

Maybe someone should tell them what the spring actaully is..
Once it do not return to its original shape its not "springing"..
I am sorry to say something so obvious here but......

www.instagram.com/jscuttingtools
Re: OKC knives bend in bare hands
January 20, 2018 08:53AM
i tryed to bend my 498 tonight , the knife flexed in my hands like spring, when i released the pressure on it.
Re: OKC knives bend in bare hands
January 22, 2018 09:46PM
[www.bladeforums.com]

i posted another thread on bf ,looks those repley .funny and ironic.
Re: OKC knives bend in bare hands
January 22, 2018 10:36PM
dingy,
BladeForums isn't what it used to be.

"I am still discussing issues of steels and performance at this stage."
--Cliff Stamp

"Cause geometry cuts, .....steel determines the level and the duration"
--Roman Landes

"But in general, I'm all about high performance, Ergos, safety. That's why I've been accused of 'designing in the dark' "
--Sal Glesser
Re: OKC knives bend in bare hands
February 03, 2018 09:04PM
I have few estwing axes, and i know that the tangs are hardened .
and those one piece steel axes are known as tough tools.
Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.

Click here to login