Welcome! Log In Create A New Profile

Advanced

H1 vs. Z-FiNit?

Posted by Chum 
This forum is currently read only. You can not log in or make any changes. This is a temporary situation.
H1 vs. Z-FiNit?
January 17, 2015 07:51PM
Is it known how these two steels compare to one another in terms of...

- Toughness
- Strength
- Apex Stability

If it is not known, anyone care to extrapolate based on their chemical makeups?

H1
C = 0.15
Cr = 14.0 -16.0
Mo = 0.50 - 1.5
N = 0.1
Ni = 6.0 - 8.0
Mn = 2.0
Si = 3.0 - 4.5
Cu = 0.1
P = 0.4
S = 0.03


Z-FiNit
C = 0.3
Cr = 15.0
Mn = 1.0
Mo = 0.95
Ni = 0.5
N = 0.5



Chumgeyser on Youtube
E-nep throwing Brotherhood. Charter Member
Re: H1 vs. Z-FiNit?
January 17, 2015 09:45PM
Z-FiNit is Chronidur 30, it is a very old steel, new snazzy name. It is ~AEBL with a much higher corrosion resistance.
Re: H1 vs. Z-FiNit?
January 17, 2015 09:53PM
Quote
CliffStamp
Z-FiNit is Chronidur 30, it is a very old steel, new snazzy name.

The data sheet on the AKS website shows that Z-FiNit and Cronidur 30 are slightly different. Cronidur 30 has slightly less Nitrogen and 1% Silicon.

link: [www.alphaknifesupply.com]




Quote
CliffStamp
It is ~AEBL with a much higher corrosion resistance

I really. really, like the sound of this.


Chumgeyser on Youtube
E-nep throwing Brotherhood. Charter Member
Re: H1 vs. Z-FiNit?
January 18, 2015 07:29PM
Quote
CliffStamp
It is ~AEBL with a much higher corrosion resistance.

So, what's the downside? Is it just price and availability? Does Cronidur 30 actually have the same edge stability as AEB-L?


Chumgeyser on Youtube
E-nep throwing Brotherhood. Charter Member
Re: H1 vs. Z-FiNit?
January 18, 2015 08:22PM
I have not been able to find any downside to using nitrogen in steels aside from cost.
Re: H1 vs. Z-FiNit?
January 18, 2015 08:57PM
Quote
CliffStamp
I have not been able to find any downside to using nitrogen in steels aside from cost.

So... are you saying, other than cost, there is no reason you wouldn't prefer cutlery made from Cronidur 30 over AEB-L? Given that Cronidur could be properly heat treated.


Chumgeyser on Youtube
E-nep throwing Brotherhood. Charter Member
Re: H1 vs. Z-FiNit?
January 18, 2015 09:10PM
AEB-L has a slightly higher maximum hardness, but few people reach it, and you are only taking about 1-2 HRC points.
Re: H1 vs. Z-FiNit?
February 27, 2015 03:02AM
I was going to buy this instead of the cpm4v i did but decided to stick with air hardened steel for heat treat price reasons and figured better to learn on one type of steel.
I talked to Brad who said 59-60 was the max hardness they were getting so far.
Alpha just got another shippment which if I had more time and money I would like to do a zfinite 0.262 Grinch chopper to test. The steel alone would be 150$ ahhhh. Going to wait and get my stuff done and maybe down the road do some. Looks cool and I heard good things.

Could you give me a idea how it would compare to 3V toughness and edge holding wise anybody.
KWB
Re: H1 vs. Z-FiNit?
February 27, 2015 04:06AM
I will be trying z-finit evetually, while the hardness doesnt thrill me it would seem to make good kitchen type knives or working knives.

Im going to have to figure out if the corrison resistance is worth the extra price.

Contact 570-486-9095
Re: H1 vs. Z-FiNit?
February 27, 2015 04:20AM
Quote
KWB
I will be trying z-finit evetually, while the hardness doesnt thrill me it would seem to make good kitchen type knives or working knives.

Im going to have to figure out if the corrison resistance is worth the extra price.
I was told by Alpha, Zapp and Peters the corrosion resistence would be very very good.
Re: H1 vs. Z-FiNit?
February 27, 2015 09:20AM
Quote
Pierre-Built

Could you give me a idea how it would compare to 3V toughness and edge holding wise anybody.

This is just guesstimation based on the chemistry, for toughness, I think CPM 3V will be significantly tougher than Zfinit, there's simply less alloy in the steel.

As for wear resistance, I would also imagine 3V to be on top (also being less grindable than Zfinit). 3V has a relatively small carbide volume (5%) of hard VC carbides, while Zfinit should have a small amount of C6Cr23 (soft Cr carbide) and Cr nitrides (which are actually very hard). How does that translate into edge holding for thin edged objects, I wouldn't imagine to be a significant difference.

Basically you gain stain resistance with ZFinit but you give up some toughness.
Re: H1 vs. Z-FiNit?
February 27, 2015 02:44PM
Quote
Bogdan M.
Quote
Pierre-Built

Could you give me a idea how it would compare to 3V toughness and edge holding wise anybody.

This is just guesstimation based on the chemistry, for toughness, I think CPM 3V will be significantly tougher than Zfinit, there's simply less alloy in the steel.

As for wear resistance, I would also imagine 3V to be on top (also being less grindable than Zfinit). 3V has a relatively small carbide volume (5%) of hard VC carbides, while Zfinit should have a small amount of C6Cr23 (soft Cr carbide) and Cr nitrides (which are actually very hard). How does that translate into edge holding for thin edged objects, I wouldn't imagine to be a significant difference.

Basically you gain stain resistance with ZFinit but you give up some toughness.
That was like the exact explaination I was looking for. Thanks.
KWB
Re: H1 vs. Z-FiNit?
February 28, 2015 02:53AM
I would expect excellent corrison resistance but I dont know if it would be worth it for myself, but I will have to test the steel first.

Contact 570-486-9095
Re: H1 vs. Z-FiNit?
March 13, 2015 08:30AM
I remember I read a Patent where Cronidur 30 was used in watches and they achieved an HRC of around 63 if I remember correctly.

Bingo, found it.

"In particular, the manufacture of the housing 1 and the cover 6 from the solid material by metal-removing Bearabeitung by which a blank is first produced is performed. Subsequently, this ingot is heated in a vacuum furnace or an inert gas atmosphere at a temperature above 1000 ° C, preferably at a temperature between about 1030 and 1060 ° C and then quenched. Next, a relaxation of the so-hardened blank at a temperature below 200 ° C, ie at a temperature of about 170-180 ° C over a period of one to two hours.

The housing 1 and the lid 6, then having a hardness up to 63 HRC and 65, can be treated at the surfaces, namely, for example, by blasting with glass beads, mirror polishing, CVD, PVD coating"

Patent

Now keep in mind that LC200N, Z-FiNit and Cronidur 30 are steels with very similar chemistry. I want to use these steels personally in my knives (Nitrobe-77 would be my first choice) but cost and availability is an issue and I can get 14C28N locally but even 14C28n has a significant cost jump above something like N690.
KWB
Re: H1 vs. Z-FiNit?
April 05, 2015 09:53PM
Anyone have toughness figures on z-finit or similar?

Contact 570-486-9095
Re: H1 vs. Z-FiNit?
April 05, 2015 11:15PM
The strength/toughness would be similar for all of those steels (420HC, 14C28N, 12C27, Z-FiNit, etc.) .
KWB
Re: H1 vs. Z-FiNit?
April 06, 2015 04:22AM
Reason I ask is I would really like a machete type tool that wo t tust as easily, toughness and hardness are really arent ideal though, what would be really nice is a steel that has high strength, good toughness, and high hardness with high corrsion resistance.

Contact 570-486-9095
Re: H1 vs. Z-FiNit?
April 06, 2015 04:40AM
Kyle, that is 420HC.
Re: H1 vs. Z-FiNit?
April 08, 2015 10:21AM
Who sells 420HC retail?
Re: H1 vs. Z-FiNit?
April 18, 2015 01:17PM
Buck Knives grinning smiley
Re: H1 vs. Z-FiNit?
April 26, 2016 02:12AM
Quote
CliffStamp
The strength/toughness would be similar for all of those steels (420HC, 14C28N, 12C27, Z-FiNit, etc.) .

So, higher than S35VN, Elmax and similar steels?
Re: H1 vs. Z-FiNit?
April 26, 2016 04:37AM
Yes, significantly.
Re: H1 vs. Z-FiNit?
April 28, 2016 01:37AM
Cliff,

I once read on another forum that H1 can reach hardness up to 66-68HRC, is it true?

If so, how is it possible? Its C content is rather low and its N content is not that high either...

And why can Z-FiNit only max at 59-60HRC while its C and N contents are both higher?
Re: H1 vs. Z-FiNit?
April 28, 2016 03:48AM
The hardness in H1 of very high HRC is achieved after working. This is likely the transformation of austenite to untempered martensite in work hardening. When people say a steel has a hardness of X, they usually mean after tempering *and* given standard HT conditions.
Re: H1 vs. Z-FiNit?
February 21, 2017 02:31AM
Quote
CliffStamp
Z-FiNit is Chronidur 30, it is a very old steel, new snazzy name. It is ~AEBL with a much higher corrosion resistance.

Sounds like a great knife steel, why don't we see it used more often?
Re: H1 vs. Z-FiNit?
February 21, 2017 02:38AM
There's a couple of custom makers who use it regularly. Ben Tendick is one (although lately he's been sticking to 3v), and Hiko Ito knives uses it regularly. I think ABS Mastersmith Michael Radar was big on it for a while too.

_______________________________________________________________________________________________

Always in search of a good choppa'
KWB
Re: H1 vs. Z-FiNit?
February 21, 2017 01:04PM
I have used Z-finit. In my opinion it is very similar to aeb-l but slightly tougher with much more corrosion resistance.

In short highly corrision resistant aeb-l with well a price tag into the more expensive steels.

Contact 570-486-9095
Re: H1 vs. Z-FiNit?
February 21, 2017 06:13PM
Quote
KWB
I have used Z-finit. In my opinion it is very similar to aeb-l but slightly tougher with much more corrosion resistance.

In short highly corrision resistant aeb-l with well a price tag into the more expensive steels.

How do you get much more corrosion resistant than aeb-l? McCullin did several corrosion test with aeb-l and (I believe) it never showed signs of any corrosion. I'll look for that thread and post it here.


Chumgeyser on Youtube
E-nep throwing Brotherhood. Charter Member
Re: H1 vs. Z-FiNit?
February 21, 2017 07:32PM
Of course, I totally forgot you had worked with it Kyle. My apologies.

_______________________________________________________________________________________________

Always in search of a good choppa'
KWB
Re: H1 vs. Z-FiNit?
February 22, 2017 01:58AM
I have had aeb-l rust but it was a small area cery insignificant.

For most users z-finit has more corrosion resistance than many will every need. But still has its uses.

Contact 570-486-9095