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EDC Grit Finish: What Do You Use, Why, And How To Select And Compare Grit Finishes For EDC Use

Posted by jasonstone20 
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What grit finishes do you all use for EDC? Does the finish change depending on steel type and edge angle used? How did you select and compare those grit finishes?

I am asking because I am having very hard time telling the difference in EDC use between two different grit finishes. Both edges are tree-topping arm hair sharp, and are Class II steels (8Cr13MoV and 154CM). I have tried both stropping the edges after sharpening or just using the edge off the stone. I really don't see any improvement with stropping either, and it can absolutely destroy your slicing aggression.

"I am still discussing issues of steels and performance at this stage."
--Cliff Stamp

"Cause geometry cuts, .....steel determines the level and the duration"
--Roman Landes

"But in general, I'm all about high performance, Ergos, safety. That's why I've been accused of 'designing in the dark' "
--Sal Glesser



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/31/2019 09:51AM by jasonstone20.
[www.bladeforums.com]

Quote
Cliff Stamp
This is one of the few steels in modern knives which is designed as an actual knife steel. That is to say it has the ability to take a very sharp edge and the properties to hold it and Spyderco is running it nice and hard. Considering its purpose I would run it with a high polish and use it for push cutting. For an aggressive slicer I would use a much more coarse finish on a much higher carbide steel, D2 or similar.

-Cliff


This is the advice I am trying to practice.

"I am still discussing issues of steels and performance at this stage."
--Cliff Stamp

"Cause geometry cuts, .....steel determines the level and the duration"
--Roman Landes

"But in general, I'm all about high performance, Ergos, safety. That's why I've been accused of 'designing in the dark' "
--Sal Glesser
The only steels I have with a significant carbide percentage are S30V, D2, ELMAX, 154CM/ATS-34. Is the carbide volume enough to benefit from a coarser edge? With my cutting technique or style, I mostly push cut. I have notice that there is some slicing action no matter how careful or deliberate my cutting motion is. Also, the blade can and will stall so I have to slice sometimes. I have noticed nice results with a DMT 325 Blue Coarse Edge and the Norton Fine India. I normally run a grit finish that is pretty high, like a Spyderco UF Rod or Dan's Surgical Black Arkansas.

"I am still discussing issues of steels and performance at this stage."
--Cliff Stamp

"Cause geometry cuts, .....steel determines the level and the duration"
--Roman Landes

"But in general, I'm all about high performance, Ergos, safety. That's why I've been accused of 'designing in the dark' "
--Sal Glesser
I usually finish sharpening my pocket knives with the Fallkniven DC4. Works well for maintaining the edge over a long time (months). For me it has a combination of push cutting and slicing performance that work.

I like single pocket hone set ups for pocket knives. If a knife losses to much sharpness just take the hone and restore sharpness. No setting up systems or soaking stones. :-)
JDW,
Yes, I carry either a folding 325/600 diamond hone and a medium ceramic dogbone sharpener, or the WorkSharp Field Sharpener.

"I am still discussing issues of steels and performance at this stage."
--Cliff Stamp

"Cause geometry cuts, .....steel determines the level and the duration"
--Roman Landes

"But in general, I'm all about high performance, Ergos, safety. That's why I've been accused of 'designing in the dark' "
--Sal Glesser
[forum.spyderco.com]
Quote
Cliff Stamp
I think in fact this is a critical issue. If you look at the above the performance of that knife on the hemp at the far left where it is the highest is many times to one greater than the K2/Farid in 10V at 63 HRC. How do you thus describe the edge retention of the steel? Would you be willing to sharpen such a knife with the same edge/grit because if you don't then this knife has better edge retention on slicing hemp and similar materials.

However I have been considering a different metric, what about if instead of looking at edge retention just on slicing, you looked at this number :

-TCE (slicing) * TCE (push cutting)

If you take the 120 Sigma Power then the push cutting performance would be very low so that metric which is a kind of average edge retention over normal slicing and push cutting would be low as well. However if you move up to AEB-L then you can get higher edge retention at a finer finish and this might allow a greater total maximum performance. At this point I don't have the data, but it seems reasonable. In this way you could say then that AEB-L has a higher edge retention in an absolute sense over a range of grits and apex angles.

^^^^
THIS
This is what I am trying to work out.

"I am still discussing issues of steels and performance at this stage."
--Cliff Stamp

"Cause geometry cuts, .....steel determines the level and the duration"
--Roman Landes

"But in general, I'm all about high performance, Ergos, safety. That's why I've been accused of 'designing in the dark' "
--Sal Glesser
[www.bladeforums.com]

Quote
Cliff
First off congradulations on actually taking a more coarse finish to that high a level of sharpness, the reason that there are several myths about coarse finishes is often because they are left with pretty much a edge left as shaped with no refinements.

Now as to the benefits of a higher polish, when you are cutting do you notice that there is too much resistance as you are pushing the blade through the material. Does it feel too rough and tend to catch and drag material with it? Are you sharpening a little too frequent? If these sound familiar then you can expect a benfit from a higher finish.

If you go too high then you will notice that the blade doesn't bite well enough, it slips frequently on material, requires heavy force to cut well and again you have to sharpen too often. In that case you would try reducing the grit a little.

What works very well on a lot of blades is to give them a dual finish as popularized by Talmadge. After you finish the blades with the medium rods then you polish one section, often the tip, with the fine rods. This leaves the blade near the choil with aggressive slicing ability and gives better push cutting sharpness and edge retention with the tip.

On some blades the opposite works well also. On large brush blades for example I polish the blade near the choil for chopping and carving woods but leave the tip with a more coarse finish for slicing vegatation.

-Cliff

"I am still discussing issues of steels and performance at this stage."
--Cliff Stamp

"Cause geometry cuts, .....steel determines the level and the duration"
--Roman Landes

"But in general, I'm all about high performance, Ergos, safety. That's why I've been accused of 'designing in the dark' "
--Sal Glesser
I think I have been approaching how I view EDC edge's backwards. Since I mostly push-cut, I had been looking for a push-cutting edge that would also slice. I think a better way to look at the problem is find a slicing edge that will also push cut. The Norton F India, Dan's Soft Arkansas, and Spyderco Medium Ceramic seem to be a better solution that taking a Spyderco UF and Dan's Surgical Black to edge angles of 10* DPS/20* Inclusive so they will still slice well for medium to high carbide steels (AUS-8, 8Cr13MoV, 154CM, S30V, D2, VG-10).

"I am still discussing issues of steels and performance at this stage."
--Cliff Stamp

"Cause geometry cuts, .....steel determines the level and the duration"
--Roman Landes

"But in general, I'm all about high performance, Ergos, safety. That's why I've been accused of 'designing in the dark' "
--Sal Glesser
I think for EDC a coarse edge is a better option. Before I was using the edge geometry to slice, and the grit finish to push cut, but I am trying out using the edge geometry for push cutting and the grit finish for slicing. I think because for EDC you can have to cut unknown materials, having the best balance of slicing and push cutting would be ideal, and that is what I am searching for now.

"I am still discussing issues of steels and performance at this stage."
--Cliff Stamp

"Cause geometry cuts, .....steel determines the level and the duration"
--Roman Landes

"But in general, I'm all about high performance, Ergos, safety. That's why I've been accused of 'designing in the dark' "
--Sal Glesser
So I just used the Spyderco Diamond rods at 15*DPS/30*INC, and the edge started to roll. Looks like it is back to a high grit edge for me.

"I am still discussing issues of steels and performance at this stage."
--Cliff Stamp

"Cause geometry cuts, .....steel determines the level and the duration"
--Roman Landes

"But in general, I'm all about high performance, Ergos, safety. That's why I've been accused of 'designing in the dark' "
--Sal Glesser
Why do you think going to a higher grit will fix that Jason? I'm having a hard time figuring it out, seems like a strength issue rather than finish.
Luisknicacc,
Because the problem only happened when I used the coarse diamond finish. I have had this issue before with the same grit finish. I didn't have the issue with the polished edge. The other thing is that I use a push cut motion naturally when I cut, not a slicing motion, so I get small burrs forming on the edge, which is a better description of what happened than the edge rolling. The edge didn't really roll, I just got very small burrs.

"I am still discussing issues of steels and performance at this stage."
--Cliff Stamp

"Cause geometry cuts, .....steel determines the level and the duration"
--Roman Landes

"But in general, I'm all about high performance, Ergos, safety. That's why I've been accused of 'designing in the dark' "
--Sal Glesser
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