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Picking the right steels

Posted by cKc 
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cKc
Re: Picking the right steels
July 25, 2021 04:18PM
The Busse marketing and explanations has always been a little vague to me, as INFI is supposedly a process + a steel, not a steel or a process.

so its interesting in that, if you alter the HT and change the hardness, is it still technically INFI

maybe this has been covered by Jerry, and anything i say would be guess/ assumption.

Calmax shares a lot of properties as INFI in that its an extremely tough, easy to grind steel that has good wear properties. but what is good wear will mean different things to different people.

why the calmax has good wear is that to me, im talking about good wear in certain conditions. conditions where a similar 60RC high carbide steel which is "high wear" will not exhibit high wear because of tearout and chipping etc because of their lack of weakness.where Calmax while it might not have the high wear people talk about with cardboard test etc, resists fracture and tear outs which means that at 60rc its going to last a lot longer cutting well than a steel like 154cpm at 60rc because the edge wont get damaged as well.

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It's not Cliff, its Dr Stamp
#kebabstickcut, it's a thing - make it happen
Re: Picking the right steels
July 25, 2021 09:28PM
The other confusing thing to me about Infi being an easy to grind steel, I remember seeing Jerry post something years ago about the change over to Infi from their previous steel (I believe was A2 if not mistaken) caused a massive amount of difficulty grinding for their tooling. I mean if that is the case, it should mean that Infi may have a sort of moderate difficulty in grinding in the sense that it's about average. Maybe A2 is a very easy to grind steel, I don't really know.
Re: Picking the right steels
July 25, 2021 09:36PM
YESH,
I think you interpreted this the opposite of what it meant:
Quote
YESH
"Steels with high wear resistance normally score fairly low in shock resistance, lateral strength, and overall toughness. INFI scores very high in ALL of these categories."
INFI has low wear resistance compared to the steels with high wear resistance, that is why INFI scores high in shock resistance, lateral stength, and overall toughness, which high wear resistant steels do not.

"I am still discussing issues of steels and performance at this stage." -- Cliff Stamp, May his memory be a blessing
"Life is GOOD", -- Stefan_Wolf, May His Memory Be A Blessing
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Re: Picking the right steels
July 26, 2021 11:34AM
Jason,

You are likely correct and this was the only alternative to how I was wondering it might have been intended to read. The two sets of characteristics definitely are at odds for the most part, I was mostly wondering if INFI was a sort of an outlier in this way from the norm.
Re: Picking the right steels
July 26, 2021 02:19PM
YESH,
I have been there myself, many times, were I read something to mean something other than it meant, and that led to a few questions also.

"I am still discussing issues of steels and performance at this stage." -- Cliff Stamp, May his memory be a blessing
"Life is GOOD", -- Stefan_Wolf, May His Memory Be A Blessing
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Re: Picking the right steels
July 31, 2021 08:16PM
hi, been a while. i like O1 because it comes in many sizes(1/32" and up), easy to machine and grind, simple heat treat, low cost, at Rc62-63 will hold a thin edge for a long time. my knives are only used in the kitchen, never go in the sink, for the last 14 months only used by me. it is very easy to touch up the edge. if i sold one of these blades, it would come with a warning like global that says warranty is voided if you do stupid stuff like cut bone or frozen food or put blade in dishwasher.
i think a lot of the use of high carbide, CPM steels is "ME TOO". if company A makes a knife of S90V, company B will have one next month.
knife making forums do their part too. on one, if the blade isn't CPM S30V, it ain't a knife. it is not encouraging to tell a potential knife maker he will need to spend $20-30K just for equipment.
scott
sal
Re: Picking the right steels
August 01, 2021 07:32PM
There are quite a few new steels that can offer exceptional performance in many areas. To close your eyes to these new developments may cheat you of the experience they offer. I would guess that Spyderco plays around with more steels than most companies and we've certainly benefited from the experience. PM steels have opened up a world of possibilities. Nitrogen steels have also brought the edge to a new dimension. Specialty developments like Larrin's new Magnacut PM steel again pushes the envelope. Exceptional corrosion resistance by carefully studying the effects of steel in solution.

The market is full of Steel Junky's that truly enjoy comparing steels. All Steel looks the same so using becomes the only standard for comparison. No one says; "I like the look of that steel". Just some thoughts to share.

sal
cKc
Re: Picking the right steels
August 02, 2021 03:47AM
Sal, i think the mule projects Spyderco has done, and the risk of the wide range of steels you use as a company has been of great benefit to the industry as a whole from an experimentation point of view, and fulfilling a consumer desire to keep getting something new to try.

no other company provided the same knives in so many different steels to experiment with.

We all might have the meals we prefer to eat, and the meals that are most nutritious, or otherwise, but we'd all be sadder if every meal was oatmeal.

Cost of ownership also plays an important role. for me personally, when i talk about ideal steels in a knife. i am not looking from the elite of the elite qualities in a steel, but from what would be the most ideal steel to have if i had no money to buy 1000 knives, and just had to pick that one good knife that might do everything. for me, personally, the effort of maintaining and grinding on a knife outweighs all other properties, so im always going to go for the simpler steels (which doesn't stop me having some nice interesting knives in my collection)

For example where i live now in the Philippines.. someone that earns $1 an hour isn't going to pick those top end steels even if gifted to them because their work and lifestyle wouldn't permit them to maintain that knife, or have the sharpening equipment at hand to make it useful.. it would eventually become a shiny piece of metal that is never really sharp.

But then the richer enthusiasts are right in there at the malls buying all the top of the line stuff in a wide range of steels.

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It's not Cliff, its Dr Stamp
#kebabstickcut, it's a thing - make it happen
Re: Picking the right steels
August 02, 2021 07:44PM
Quote
sal
There are quite a few new steels that can offer exceptional performance in many areas. To close your eyes to these new developments may cheat you of the experience they offer. I would guess that Spyderco plays around with more steels than most companies and we've certainly benefited from the experience.
sal

I understand that you in the knife manufacturing business. My comment was more for the hobby person. Even with all the new developments, for the cook knives have not changed much. there are very few offerings for the kitchen made in USA and selling at a reasonable price. the market for small, light weight kitchen blades that can slice a pork loin or onion paper thin is very small. no one or company is going make money serving this market.
Just the thoughts of a tired old sailor
scott