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Push Cutting Vs Draw Cutting

Posted by jasonstone20 
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Push Cutting Vs Draw Cutting
June 05, 2020 03:51PM
Here is an explanation of what I mean when I say I push cut as my natural cutting motion. Take a cardboard foodbox/container. To break it down, I would hold the box with my off hand, line up the knife at a 90°x90°x90°, with the heel of the blade as the starting point, holding the knife in a hammer grip, and then I push straight down until the knife stalls, then I slice until I can push cut again, usually just enough to get the blade moving again, like half the length of the blade. If I am not paying attention, in a hurry, or space is confined, I try to push cut, but end up doing a long draw cut that follows the natural arcing motion of my arm. I have tried to using a slicing motion when I tried out using a coarse edge, 325 DMT, because Joe Calton had good success with them. It took me two weeks before I would start slicing naturally. I tried that edge with my push cutting style, and it didn't last long, about half the time of my high grit edges. When I naturally sliced using the coarse edge, it would last as long as my high girt edges.

"I am still discussing issues of steels and performance at this stage." -- Cliff Stamp, May his memory be a blessing
"Life is GOOD", -- Stefan_Wolf, May His Memory Be A Blessing
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cKc
Re: Push Cutting Vs Draw Cutting
June 05, 2020 04:25PM
Ok, so when you say you only push cut.. you are specifically referring to pulling down cardboard boxes? i thought you were referring to basically all uses..

im going to take a couple of pics to explain what i do, and why.. because knife use to me is not about trying to make things conform to what we want to do, but understanding the way it wants to be cut.

case in point. i dont push cut wood at 90 degrees, because it wants to be cut at 45.. i'd only cut 90 when its important for the cut to be finished clean and perfect.. and often i'll come back to clean it up..

what works for everyone is different, so if you have time, try these ideas out and see how they work for you.

this first photo is showing 90 going with the corrugation, which is the easiest cut direction. to me. doing this is full of effort.


this one is 90 degree, going against the corrugation. much harder. infact almost dont event want to try it requires so much force relative to what i want to do. and this is on a sharp edge that will pop armhair easily


all cuts now are on the hardest cut direction with the cardboard, other wise its so easy its like cutting paper for me.
this is an improvement, over the previous. tiling the blade angle to 45 and push cutting.
its a push cut, but working the edge like a draw cut.. so this is still hard.. but much easier than the 90 degree cut. its not slicing, its drawing.


this image just shows the above from a down view, and how the cardboard wants to spread



this last techniqe is the most easy for cutting cardboard, its like surfing down a wave. we are at 45 degrees in 2 directions. 45 on the blade tilt, and 45 on the blade in relation to the cardboard. this slides through cardboard in the hard direction with ease, because its effecting a slice via the draw, without needing to slice, and the 45 tilt in relation to the cardboard lets the cardboard seperate without binding on the knife..

i can follow up with a small video if needed.


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It's not Cliff, its Dr Stamp
#kebabstickcut, it's a thing - make it happen
cKc
Re: Push Cutting Vs Draw Cutting
June 05, 2020 05:26PM
quick small video. i think you can see clearly through sound and effort the difference. this is not super particular to edge finish. yes the less coarse the finish is, the better the push will be, but that improvement correlates to both, as one improves the other does too





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It's not Cliff, its Dr Stamp
#kebabstickcut, it's a thing - make it happen



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/05/2020 05:27PM by cKc.
Re: Push Cutting Vs Draw Cutting
June 05, 2020 05:33PM
cKc,
Yes, I would cut that material you show in a different manner, as I would us a 45° tilt. I start by trying to push cut, then adjust to what works. The example I gave above is talking about breaking down food containers, like cereal boxes. What I do is cut in the folds, corners, or creases of the box at a 90°x90°x90°. If I was breaking it down more, I would tilt to the aforementioned 45°. I try to go with what works easiest. For food, I will rock chop, slice, ect. depending on what is necessary to cut. That being said, my main motion is to try a push cut something, like shaving arm hair, instead of slicing. The other way I could describe it is that it is like I am whittling wood with whatever I cut. I that doesn't work, I adjust. This seems to have enough of a factor in my edge retention that if I use coarse edges, like a DMT 325, I don't get the same performance until I switch to using a slicing motion at first. I think this is why I was having such a hard time finding an EDC grit I liked when I was trying out different finishes a few months ago. The Norton F India was the edge I got the best results from for a coarse edge.

"I am still discussing issues of steels and performance at this stage." -- Cliff Stamp, May his memory be a blessing
"Life is GOOD", -- Stefan_Wolf, May His Memory Be A Blessing
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Re: Push Cutting Vs Draw Cutting
June 05, 2020 05:44PM


"I am still discussing issues of steels and performance at this stage." -- Cliff Stamp, May his memory be a blessing
"Life is GOOD", -- Stefan_Wolf, May His Memory Be A Blessing
WordPress YouTube Facebook Patreon Locals Instagram Twitter
cKc
Re: Push Cutting Vs Draw Cutting
June 05, 2020 05:47PM
Quote
Jason
that being said, my main motion is to try a push cut something

ok. i understand now, so i would say that saying you push cut everything is not actually correct based on what you said above. smiling smiley
you are infact utilizing different techniques to suit the materials, knife, etc..

i was very confused because many times you have said. you only push cut.. for a site that likes details this throws me off because it sounds so rigid in thought.

I personally will try to cut each material the way that works best, because for the same reason i want the lowest geometry. the goal is to cut with minimal effort. sometimes this means how you cut a material is as important as geometry, and apex sharpness.

to me, knife us is the combination of skill, geometry, and sharpness. and the skill portion should include the knowledge of the most efficient ways to cut each materials..

and sure. edge finish can play a large role in this. but if i know i have a coarse edge on a knife, i know im going to draw more, and push less. finer edge is still drawing a cut, but less is required in relation to the push.

it sounds like you have a much more refined recycling technique than me grinning smiley
i stand on the boxes and squash them with my might, and then throw them in the recyler flat grinning smiley

----------------------------------------------------------------------
It's not Cliff, its Dr Stamp
#kebabstickcut, it's a thing - make it happen
cKc
Re: Push Cutting Vs Draw Cutting
June 05, 2020 05:49PM
Too many carbides in that knife for a push cut grinning smiley grinning smiley grinning smiley

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It's not Cliff, its Dr Stamp
#kebabstickcut, it's a thing - make it happen
Re: Push Cutting Vs Draw Cutting
June 05, 2020 06:06PM
cKc,
Yes, it would be more accurate if a said I mostly push cut. That is why I started saying I naturally push cut, but that term didn't seem correct either, along with instinctive cutting motion is a push cut. That is why I just started saying I just push cut.

"I am still discussing issues of steels and performance at this stage." -- Cliff Stamp, May his memory be a blessing
"Life is GOOD", -- Stefan_Wolf, May His Memory Be A Blessing
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