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Posted by jasonstone20 
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Definitions
June 15, 2020 12:36AM
Often, when talking about knives, we are either talking about different things, using similar terms, or talking about the same thing, using different terms. Take for instance the term "Super Steel". This means different things depending on who you talk to. I don't think that this issue with definitions is helpful to discussions when it comes to knives and knife sharpening.

"I am still discussing issues of steels and performance at this stage." -- Cliff Stamp, May his memory be a blessing
"Life is GOOD", -- Stefan_Wolf, May His Memory Be A Blessing
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Re: Definitions
June 15, 2020 01:42AM
There are a few major problems with terms get unclear :

-people talk about different things
-when they try to look up data
-when they try to draw conclusions

Brittle is one of the ones I have noticed recently that people really misunderstand. I am not even sure what they think it means, often times you will see someone flex a blade and declare it isn't brittle.

Brittle means WHEN the steel fails, it does so without plastic deformation, so in order to know if a steel is or isn't brittle, you actually have to snap it and show it plastically deformed (then it isn't brittle).
Re: Definitions
June 15, 2020 01:51AM
Cliff,
Edge stability is another. I remember emailing Larrin Thomas about something regarding edge stability, and he asked me a clarifying question: Was I talking about Roman Landes edge stability, or 'YouTube' edge stability ie edge rolling ect. (paraphrase).

"I am still discussing issues of steels and performance at this stage." -- Cliff Stamp, May his memory be a blessing
"Life is GOOD", -- Stefan_Wolf, May His Memory Be A Blessing
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Re: Definitions
June 15, 2020 02:29AM
Quote
jasonstone20
... he asked me a clarifying question: Was I talking about Roman Landes edge stability, or 'YouTube' edge stability

That is both kind of funny, and kind of sad at the same time.

How did Roman's message get so convoluted, it is a simple concept.
Re: Definitions
June 15, 2020 03:29AM
Cliff,
Yeah, it is weird. I had been hearing that you can't take steels below 15° DPS, the edge will collapse. That is why I was asking about the causes of the issues I was having with the Class II steels, save AUS-8/8Cr13MoV and AEB-L. I had taken edges down to low angles (closer to zero) and had no problems. Then I'd sharpen again, and the edge would collapse. I'd sharpen again, and I would have micro-chipping, Sharpen again, and no issues. I did have an AEB-L edge collapse on me once, but the knife was new, so either it was damaged in it's initial sharpening, or I didn't cut off the fatigued steel on the apex. Not sure, the edge is very thin BTE, and a low chisel ground angle. I wasn't sure of what was happening, so I figured I would play it safe and just use Roman's guide for angles for steels. When I did that, the issues went away. It didn't happen with Class I steels, or coarse edges. Intermittent issues are the worse to try and figure out, whether it is computer programming or knife sharpening.

"I am still discussing issues of steels and performance at this stage." -- Cliff Stamp, May his memory be a blessing
"Life is GOOD", -- Stefan_Wolf, May His Memory Be A Blessing
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cKc
Re: Definitions
June 15, 2020 04:15AM
in factory knives, i suspect many issues are the lasercut ones which have bad steel on the edges if it wasn't removed well. this definally occurred to me in my batch.

its always going to be very hard to know whats going on with any bought knife until 0.5mm or more of steel is removed from the edge if there are issues.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
It's not Cliff, its Dr Stamp
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Re: Definitions
June 15, 2020 09:26AM
Quote
cKc
in factory knives, i suspect many issues are the lasercut ones which have bad steel on the edges if it wasn't removed well. this definally occurred to me in my batch.

its always going to be very hard to know whats going on with any bought knife until 0.5mm or more of steel is removed from the edge if there are issues.

For the same reason I was always afraid to use laser.. You say 0.5mm.
I ve heard Denis Frolov to say he developped habit to remove 2mm
around the contours just to be sure (he works with extremely high carbide alloys)

When you think of it after waterjet all is needed to is to recreate 90deg angle relative to flats
and that usually takes to grind off 0.2 to 0.3mm plus shape we removing is triangular
so only 50% of volume must be ground away compared to straight cut..

In addition materials suitable for laser cutting without extensive postprocessing
like annealing and griding off the steel.. etc are usually non-hardenable.
Click of example of high strength low alloy steel for automotive industry
and notice the carbon content it has at the bottom of the page..

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Re: Definitions
June 15, 2020 11:57AM
Maybe that is why I have had some issues with Benchmade's knives when it comes to sharpening. They were the first knife company I had heard of that used laser cutting on their blanks.

"I am still discussing issues of steels and performance at this stage." -- Cliff Stamp, May his memory be a blessing
"Life is GOOD", -- Stefan_Wolf, May His Memory Be A Blessing
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Re: Definitions
June 15, 2020 11:57AM
Can I nominate *high performance"?
Re: Definitions
November 23, 2020 03:36AM
My favourite is “Primary” grind: Ie: The mid blade Sabre grind for example, vs “Secondary” grind: The V edge itself.

In the mid 1980s, in most knife magazines, and most of the period’s literature, it was the exact reverse(!), which to me makes more sense... In the 1970s, and especially the 1980s, up to the very early 1990s, the knife world had an extremely rich range of publications devoted solely to knives. The above changeover tells me most of the paper knife writers never made it to the Internet era, hence the mismatching new definitions... The demise of so much paper publications seems to have created a “break” in the culture. The old knife culture was a lot more about design, refinement and innovations, the new Internet culture being a lot more about steels, overbuilt pocket jewelry or minimalist fixed blades with a strong traditional flavour.

It is the same with makers: Many star custom makers dating to the paper era are hardly known today, Chris Reeves and Busse being rare exceptions. A paper era star maker that never quite made it, who comes to mind, is Jim Hammond. Characteristically, Hammond was all about design and extreme precision, not new steels and folders, (unless he changed in later years).

The paper to online changeover is never commented on, but is quite striking. G.