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Do pores/grains in metal expand w/ heat enough to allow lube to "embed"?

Posted by razoredgeknives 
Re: Do pores/grains in metal expand w/ heat enough to allow lube to "embed"?
January 15, 2016 05:36PM
one of the news programs, 60minutes I think ,
did a story recently about extra virgin olive oil,
how like 80% of it is fake or diluted,
so you're paying $20 retail for $1 retail worth of "canola"
... and funding the mafia

People don't like being cheated

____
Thanks
I don't mow smiling smiley
Re: Do pores/grains in metal expand w/ heat enough to allow lube to "embed"?
January 15, 2016 05:51PM
I think of it as a data point, nothing more.
Re: Do pores/grains in metal expand w/ heat enough to allow lube to "embed"?
January 16, 2016 08:50PM
I understand that, but try it, either it works or doesn't. The firearms industry is full of silly things, same with the knife industry, to spend time and energy in proving or disproving everything that gets marketed is a waste of time. Try the product, or wait to see if it's still around in a few years. That's just my thoughts on it.

"I am still discussing issues of steels and performance at this stage."
--Cliff Stamp

"Cause geometry cuts, .....steel determines the level and the duration"
--Roman Landes

"But in general, I'm all about high performance, Ergos, safety. That's why I've been accused of 'designing in the dark' "
--Sal Glesser
Re: Do pores/grains in metal expand w/ heat enough to allow lube to "embed"?
January 16, 2016 09:03PM
Why is it a waste of time to understand if a product works or not, both for yourself and to share with others?
Re: Do pores/grains in metal expand w/ heat enough to allow lube to "embed"?
January 16, 2016 09:31PM
Cliff-
That's not what I am saying. Of course see if it works or not. But sending it, in fact a few different people sending it, to do chemical and spectrum analysis to see if it's Crisco or roller coaster oil, how does the help anything? I'm just saying it's a bit much In my Iopinion. It's a lubricant for a firearm or a knife, they either work for you or they don't in my experience.

"I am still discussing issues of steels and performance at this stage."
--Cliff Stamp

"Cause geometry cuts, .....steel determines the level and the duration"
--Roman Landes

"But in general, I'm all about high performance, Ergos, safety. That's why I've been accused of 'designing in the dark' "
--Sal Glesser
Re: Do pores/grains in metal expand w/ heat enough to allow lube to "embed"?
January 16, 2016 09:38PM
Quote
jasonstone20
[...]But sending it, in fact a few different people sending it, to do chemical and spectrum analysis to see if it's Crisco or roller coaster oil, how does the help anything?

If it showed for example that a very expensive lubrication product was nothing more than a vegetable oil then you could just buy 100X the amount of vegetable oil for the same price so it would have direct application. However even if it doesn't have direct application, then knowledge for the sake of knowledge itself has value.

But in this case the direct value is obvious. If there is a company which is selling canola oil as a duper-lubricant and claiming otherwise, then it is likely that :

a) people would be interested
b) the same people would not want to support said product

Imagine for example if (some knifemaker) claimed to be using some priority PM steel and it was discovered it was just ingot 1095. Then not only is what they are doing actually illegal (fraud) then people would likely have issues with it aside from the legal issues.
Re: Do pores/grains in metal expand w/ heat enough to allow lube to "embed"?
January 16, 2016 09:49PM
Cliff-
I agree. But to what degree are you going to get emotionally invested in the issue? This topic has been bouncing around for some time, every few months a new definitive conclusion comes out that's in stark contrast to the last one. If the cost was prohibitive or claim massively superior even then, when do you draw the line?
I will share a personal experience that I had that was similar. I have injuries to my hands and wrists, and cleaning firearms is tedious and painful. A well-known brand came out with a spray on, wipe off product that was amazing. Turned out to be carburetor cleaner, put in a smaller can and the price doubled. Now why would I get upset about buying the first can? I just used regular carburetor cleaner from the auto-parts store from then on.

"I am still discussing issues of steels and performance at this stage."
--Cliff Stamp

"Cause geometry cuts, .....steel determines the level and the duration"
--Roman Landes

"But in general, I'm all about high performance, Ergos, safety. That's why I've been accused of 'designing in the dark' "
--Sal Glesser
Re: Do pores/grains in metal expand w/ heat enough to allow lube to "embed"?
January 17, 2016 05:31AM
I think it's crazy that a roller coaster lubricant is made of vegetable oil! Particularly, because roller coaster's have always weirded me out as I've never been clear about the safety regulations surrounding them.*




*I suppose I could find it on the internet, but I rarely visit amusement parks, and when I do it's usually a group thing where I have little say in the matter.

_______________________________________________________________________________________________

Always in search of a good choppa'
Re: Do pores/grains in metal expand w/ heat enough to allow lube to "embed"?
January 17, 2016 07:53AM
I just thought of another similar story, along the same lines of the topic at hand.

In the late 1990's, early 2000's and new "dry" wax based lubricant came on the market, heavily promoted. I bought the gun lube, bicycle lube, knife lube. None of it worked to any respective level of performance. So I stopped using it and buying it. I still have a bottle that's currently separating into it's different liquid components somewhere.

"I am still discussing issues of steels and performance at this stage."
--Cliff Stamp

"Cause geometry cuts, .....steel determines the level and the duration"
--Roman Landes

"But in general, I'm all about high performance, Ergos, safety. That's why I've been accused of 'designing in the dark' "
--Sal Glesser
Re: Do pores/grains in metal expand w/ heat enough to allow lube to "embed"?
January 17, 2016 11:01AM
Quote
jasonstone20
If the cost was prohibitive or claim massively superior even then, when do you draw the line?

When it becomes no longer of interest to the person trying to answer the question.

I have for example looked at some properties of stones (or whatever) and have spent easily say 10 hours trying to answer a simple question such as the effect of a particular lubricant on a stone. There are makers who claim that putting oil on an India stone for example stops it cutting and they make some erroneous argument about physics. Now even vs minimum wage that is a cost of ~$150. There are experiments I do which take much longer and then even vs minimum wage cost > $1000 . Why do I do it? Because I am interested in knowing/understanding.

Now would I do it the way the guy does in the blog? No, because I am an experimentalist. What he fails to understand is that composition analysis will not necessarily give you the answers you are looking for. For example, industrial lubricants have high pressure additives which are only needed in small amounts but are necessary to keep the lubricant from stopping working at high pressure. If you look at them from a composition analysis you are likely to see nothing more than mainly water and oil with some impurities. But the "impurities" are critical to the performance.

If the people you ask to do the composition analysis don't know this they could easily say that two products are the same when one doesn't have high pressure additives or doesn't have the optimal amount. I mentioned this in the blog before with no response. He doesn't seem to be interested in learning about how to answer the questions he is looking for or even ask them. But he gets a lot of hate and that often makes people kind of defensive when their arguments are challenged.
Re: Do pores/grains in metal expand w/ heat enough to allow lube to "embed"?
January 17, 2016 12:59PM
Cliff-
I agree, you are absolutely right. I think at the core of it is that I am not interested in the topic, I have found what works for me years ago on this topic, and went through my stage of searching for a firearm/knife lubricant.

"I am still discussing issues of steels and performance at this stage."
--Cliff Stamp

"Cause geometry cuts, .....steel determines the level and the duration"
--Roman Landes

"But in general, I'm all about high performance, Ergos, safety. That's why I've been accused of 'designing in the dark' "
--Sal Glesser
Re: Do pores/grains in metal expand w/ heat enough to allow lube to "embed"?
March 31, 2016 02:40PM
Update on the Fireclean fiasco:

[www.thefirearmblog.com]

Fireclean sues the guy who had the analysis done.

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Bill22252 on YouTube. "See you space cowboy"

Resident Emerson Fanboi

Folding knives are fun, fixed blades are important.
Re: Do pores/grains in metal expand w/ heat enough to allow lube to "embed"?
March 31, 2016 05:28PM
It is very likely $15, 000 will not do much of a defense unless they settle almost immediately.

The situation is one of the reasons why here (Canada) professionals won't so readily so what was done in that blog (the organic chemist).
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