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Sods : Uddo, Temperance, Surefire, AK-47

Posted by CliffStamp 
Re: Sods : Uddo, Temperance, Surefire, AK-47
July 25, 2013 09:57AM
The Benchmade response has been interesting : [benchmadeforum.com]

There is no response from Benchmade that I have seen, there is a lot of discussion, the bulk of it is repeated with people simply noting :

-use a thread locker
-use a fixed blade
-return it for warranty

I have noted about a dozen times why not only are these not practical solutions, I never asked for solutions because I already have them, I simply wanted to know if the behavior was to be expected.

The really curious thing is that I have found that the Hinderer/Bark River attitude has really biased my perspective of online manufacturer forums as all I was thinking when I was reading this was "Well if I had asked similar on the BR forums it would have just caused the banhammer to drop and the thread to be deleted." In short those extreme responses have made pretty much any normal response see positive.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/25/2013 03:19PM by CliffStamp.
Re: Sods : Uddo, Temperance, Surefire, AK-47
July 25, 2013 04:34PM
Does anyone make a cheap sodcutter with a pass through sharpener in the sheath, like I think the Gerber LMFs have? That and a very easily sharpened steel sounds like the best solution here.
Re: Sods : Uddo, Temperance, Surefire, AK-47
July 25, 2013 06:27PM
There are knives actually made for this work, gardening and such and sod cutting generally isn't knife work and most of the knives I have been using are not overly good at it. I am using them for the sake of using them in most cases because it provides information on many aspects I am interested in on both the knives and the stone. If I was going to to it practically I would radically change the knives, specifically the blade would need to be much thinner and I would switch the stone to a very coarse diamond. It might be interesting to try a serrated knife as well.
Re: Sods : Uddo, Temperance, Surefire, AK-47
July 25, 2013 11:47PM
The Japanese have a knife called a 'Hori Hori' or digging knife. It looks like an operators dagger and even has depth markings to see how much penetration has occurred.

[www.maibanbonsai.com]
[www.burpee.com]







Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/25/2013 11:53PM by Edmund Lim.
RFL
Re: Sods : Uddo, Temperance, Surefire, AK-47
July 28, 2013 06:12AM
It seems that most knife collectors (in reality, accumulators) have no comprehension of "expected behavior," If they are dissatisfied with a knife they simply return it or trade it. If the knife is actually a user, perceived flaws may be more acceptable (for the price) but the attitude is mainly to deal with the short comings or return it.

Again, the idea of "expected behavior" is rarely part of the thought process, so I doubt that you will ever get a better response.

I have a 710 and a 940, both of the pivots loosen trivially...just use thread locker.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/28/2013 06:23AM by RFL.
Re: Sods : Uddo, Temperance, Surefire, AK-47
July 28, 2013 11:36AM
Quote
RFL
It seems that most knife collectors (in reality, accumulators) have no comprehension of "expected behavior,"

Yes, that is why there is so much misinformation in the community because there is rarely any attempt to verify performance and what is worst when people do have issues they then repeat them as absolutes. However the makers/manufacturers are not totally without blame in this regard because they do not often respond well to questions about expected behavior. The reason for this of course if they admit it is a defect then it is known 100%, if they ignore it then there is doubt which means a certain amount of people will not see it as a fault and can accept user faults/bias/reporting etc. .

Quote

I have a 710 and a 940, both of the pivots loosen trivially...just use thread locker.

I can accept thread lockers as secondary retention but not primary. That is either poor design or execution or both.

I finished the sod cutting, eight sods with both knives, that is over 400+ cuts with each knife. In general the results are not surprising :

-increasing carbide volume does not improve performance in any respect
-as carbide volume increases then resharpening time increases
-a knife can be too small (Uddo) or tool large (Temperance 2) and be awkward
-a decently solid blade allows faster work with no care for gross damage (AK-47)

The combined sharpening time for all blades :




A few interesting results :

-the much larger angle of the Temperance 2 doesn't compensate for the ease of fracture of the high carbide / low grindability
-a very radically narrow edge bevel can offset the low grindability (Surefire)
-the damage even at its worse was minor and just barely seen at arms length
-sharp points with no belly, Wharncliff will get severely damaged (just due to wear)
-large differences can be seen in ease of grinding as for action on the stones (O1 vs VG-10 V S125V)
-small difference can not be seen in ease of grinding on the stones (M4 vs 125V)
Re: Sods : Uddo, Temperance, Surefire, AK-47
July 28, 2013 02:04PM
Cliff how thick is the sure fire behing the cutting edge compared to the others. Just looking at the graph it would appear that the s30v is super easy to grind. I can't however imagine it is thinner at the apex than mike's knife. Or does that demonstrate the difference between s30v and s125vn?
Re: Sods : Uddo, Temperance, Surefire, AK-47
July 28, 2013 02:24PM
The Delta was almost full zero grind, the bevel was (is) just barely visible. That was intentional as I wanted to see could it compensate for the low grindability - it did. This isn't surprising, it was just adding another line of data to the experiment.

This could have been done with any of the knives of course. I just did it to Mike's :



If this was zero'ed to the full spine it would be about 4.0 dps, there is no reason it can't be like that, but that is a lot of work on this steel as it grinds very slow. It has a very small increase in curvature near the very edge :

-0.025"/7.5 dps

Note that through the tip the curvature increases, it is 10 dps through the tip, this is to reduce damage from prying and such. The tip is more narrow so the instability is higher in cuts and will take more stress in the same cutting.

As a note about markers on the edge, after the marker was removed from the bevel past the point it could be seen it still took approximately 1500 dps to fully apex the edge. This steel is very difficult to grind.

It is likely that over time as I use it and sharpen it I will full zero it from spine to edge.
Re: Sods : Uddo, Temperance, Surefire, AK-47
August 07, 2013 07:33PM
Overview :



me2
Re: Sods : Uddo, Temperance, Surefire, AK-47
August 08, 2013 04:47PM
Just read the thread on the BM forum. Sounds like you just have a bum 710. I've carried an axis lock since the 710, which I refuse to buy another of because of the recurve. I've even used them (a 730 Ares) as a throwing knife and never had any lock issues. Sounds like you got a lemon.
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