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Steel Hardness In Production Knives

Posted by jasonstone20 
Steel Hardness In Production Knives
June 11, 2019 10:52PM



[docs.google.com]
[www.youtube.com]

"I am still discussing issues of steels and performance at this stage."
--Cliff Stamp

"Cause geometry cuts, .....steel determines the level and the duration"
--Roman Landes

"But in general, I'm all about high performance, Ergos, safety. That's why I've been accused of 'designing in the dark' "
--Sal Glesser



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/23/2019 12:33PM by jasonstone20.
Re: Steel Hardness In Production Knives
June 18, 2019 06:53PM
On a related topic, this video, along with a video from Kenny/InThePocket, and a live stream by Michael Emler on Kenny/InThePocket, which has been taken down by Mike, has caused somewhat of an uproar on YouTube and Instagram, some good, some bad, including a threatening email sent to Michael Emler. Now Mike didn't agree with Kenny/InThePocket taking issue with a HRC being off a point or two, but that led into a further issue with SuperSteelSteeve and some people questioning Kurts integrity of testing the HRC of production knives. To summarize, an Italian knife manufacturer is producing M390 that is way below (4-5 HRC points) the advertised range. On the positive side of everything, people are actually using their knives, and trying to hold production knife companies to their word.

"I am still discussing issues of steels and performance at this stage."
--Cliff Stamp

"Cause geometry cuts, .....steel determines the level and the duration"
--Roman Landes

"But in general, I'm all about high performance, Ergos, safety. That's why I've been accused of 'designing in the dark' "
--Sal Glesser
Re: Steel Hardness In Production Knives
June 18, 2019 07:27PM



[www.youtube.com]

"I am still discussing issues of steels and performance at this stage."
--Cliff Stamp

"Cause geometry cuts, .....steel determines the level and the duration"
--Roman Landes

"But in general, I'm all about high performance, Ergos, safety. That's why I've been accused of 'designing in the dark' "
--Sal Glesser



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/23/2019 12:34PM by jasonstone20.
Re: Steel Hardness In Production Knives
June 18, 2019 09:31PM




Apparently this video is what led to some of the drama with Michael Emler. I talked with Kenny/InThePocket on Instagram Chat and sent Michael Emler an email to see if things could get quelled.

[www.youtube.com]

"I am still discussing issues of steels and performance at this stage."
--Cliff Stamp

"Cause geometry cuts, .....steel determines the level and the duration"
--Roman Landes

"But in general, I'm all about high performance, Ergos, safety. That's why I've been accused of 'designing in the dark' "
--Sal Glesser



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/23/2019 12:34PM by jasonstone20.
Re: Steel Hardness In Production Knives
June 19, 2019 09:38AM
[www.bladeforums.com]

"I am still discussing issues of steels and performance at this stage."
--Cliff Stamp

"Cause geometry cuts, .....steel determines the level and the duration"
--Roman Landes

"But in general, I'm all about high performance, Ergos, safety. That's why I've been accused of 'designing in the dark' "
--Sal Glesser
Re: Steel Hardness In Production Knives
June 19, 2019 09:47PM



[www.youtube.com]

"I am still discussing issues of steels and performance at this stage."
--Cliff Stamp

"Cause geometry cuts, .....steel determines the level and the duration"
--Roman Landes

"But in general, I'm all about high performance, Ergos, safety. That's why I've been accused of 'designing in the dark' "
--Sal Glesser



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/23/2019 12:35PM by jasonstone20.
Re: Steel Hardness In Production Knives
June 21, 2019 05:39AM
another "Tempest in a Teapot." Does anyone know the Rc tester model the knifemaker or the video maker used? What level of calibration was done to the tester? What is the tolerance of the tester? Unless you are using "Standard" level equipment, +/- 1 unit would be the best expected.
What is the tolerance of the calibration blocks? anywhere from +/-1 to 3 is what is sold. expect to spend $200 for one Rc60 +/-1 test block
How is the calibration block being used? If you test too close to a previous test, your results are going to be high. When one side was covered with test marks, did you turn it over? if you did, your results are skewed, because the reverse side does not have the same surface finish. How close to the edge are you testing. too close and results are skewed. How thick is material being tested, if less than 10x the test hole depth, results skewed. is spot being tested flat and 90* to the test arm, if not more error
So here we are, Jason and Scott have the same model tester, calibrated by same calibration lab, same test blocks. Jason tests a knife and gets a reading Rc64. Mails Scott the knife which he tests and gets a reading of Rc60. Who is right? Knife and the testers are sent to third party who has higher tolerance equipment and the blade measures Rc62. Scott's tester was -1 and the calibration block was -1. Jason's tester and cal block both read +1. So both were right.
scott

scott
[www.etsy.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/21/2019 06:29AM by oldsailorsknives.
Re: Steel Hardness In Production Knives
June 21, 2019 07:52PM



[www.youtube.com]

"I am still discussing issues of steels and performance at this stage."
--Cliff Stamp

"Cause geometry cuts, .....steel determines the level and the duration"
--Roman Landes

"But in general, I'm all about high performance, Ergos, safety. That's why I've been accused of 'designing in the dark' "
--Sal Glesser



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/23/2019 12:35PM by jasonstone20.
Re: Steel Hardness In Production Knives
June 21, 2019 07:56PM
Scott,
The testing machine comes from a machine shop that does government and other contracts. It has a few machines, but Kurt (the person doing the testing) says he is using the older machine because it is more accurate. I think Nick Shabazz's take on it is a good one. If a knife cuts well and sharpens nicely, I really don't care the exact HRC. The fuss seems to be specifically about companies using M390/20CV/204p which seems to be difficult to HT in production, and it's performance seems to be sensitive if it is off by 1-2 HRC, but that isn't the big issue. The big issue is the Italian knife manufacturers saying that they are 58-60 HRC and testing 52 HRC.

"I am still discussing issues of steels and performance at this stage."
--Cliff Stamp

"Cause geometry cuts, .....steel determines the level and the duration"
--Roman Landes

"But in general, I'm all about high performance, Ergos, safety. That's why I've been accused of 'designing in the dark' "
--Sal Glesser



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/21/2019 08:00PM by jasonstone20.
Re: Steel Hardness In Production Knives
July 02, 2019 09:48PM
Apparently there was a big oopsie:



[www.youtube.com]

"I am still discussing issues of steels and performance at this stage."
--Cliff Stamp

"Cause geometry cuts, .....steel determines the level and the duration"
--Roman Landes

"But in general, I'm all about high performance, Ergos, safety. That's why I've been accused of 'designing in the dark' "
--Sal Glesser



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/23/2019 12:36PM by jasonstone20.
me2
Re: Steel Hardness In Production Knives
July 05, 2019 08:15PM
There is a thread about having 3rd party testers check blade hardness. IMO, a bad idea. Also a bad idea to put micrographs out there. I'm speaking from a makers standpoint. There really isn't an advantage for them. It's very easy for tests to be misinterpreted, improperly performed, or even disregarded by misguided buyers.
Re: Steel Hardness In Production Knives
July 06, 2019 05:17AM
me2,
I don't really see an advantage over edge retention testing. If the knife is performing well, I am not sure the other stuff is needed. I think this whole thing got started trying to check to see if Chinese budget knives were really the blade steel and handle material that were listed, and a few were caught. I agree that this info can be misinterpreted, I think it would be better to educate people on what to look for in a quality blade, and how to use there knives.

"I am still discussing issues of steels and performance at this stage."
--Cliff Stamp

"Cause geometry cuts, .....steel determines the level and the duration"
--Roman Landes

"But in general, I'm all about high performance, Ergos, safety. That's why I've been accused of 'designing in the dark' "
--Sal Glesser
Re: Steel Hardness In Production Knives
July 07, 2019 10:32AM



[www.youtube.com]

"I am still discussing issues of steels and performance at this stage."
--Cliff Stamp

"Cause geometry cuts, .....steel determines the level and the duration"
--Roman Landes

"But in general, I'm all about high performance, Ergos, safety. That's why I've been accused of 'designing in the dark' "
--Sal Glesser



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/23/2019 12:36PM by jasonstone20.
Re: Steel Hardness In Production Knives
July 17, 2019 08:26PM
More drama, this video is not making people happy on social media:
[www.youtube.com]

"I am still discussing issues of steels and performance at this stage."
--Cliff Stamp

"Cause geometry cuts, .....steel determines the level and the duration"
--Roman Landes

"But in general, I'm all about high performance, Ergos, safety. That's why I've been accused of 'designing in the dark' "
--Sal Glesser
Re: Steel Hardness In Production Knives
July 17, 2019 08:34PM
Another video:



[www.youtube.com]

"I am still discussing issues of steels and performance at this stage."
--Cliff Stamp

"Cause geometry cuts, .....steel determines the level and the duration"
--Roman Landes

"But in general, I'm all about high performance, Ergos, safety. That's why I've been accused of 'designing in the dark' "
--Sal Glesser



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/23/2019 12:37PM by jasonstone20.
Re: Steel Hardness In Production Knives
July 18, 2019 07:39AM



[www.youtube.com]

"I am still discussing issues of steels and performance at this stage."
--Cliff Stamp

"Cause geometry cuts, .....steel determines the level and the duration"
--Roman Landes

"But in general, I'm all about high performance, Ergos, safety. That's why I've been accused of 'designing in the dark' "
--Sal Glesser



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/23/2019 12:38PM by jasonstone20.
Re: Steel Hardness In Production Knives
July 20, 2019 09:47AM



video

Alchemy_1 makes an offer to buy one of two knives to test.

"I am still discussing issues of steels and performance at this stage."
--Cliff Stamp

"Cause geometry cuts, .....steel determines the level and the duration"
--Roman Landes

"But in general, I'm all about high performance, Ergos, safety. That's why I've been accused of 'designing in the dark' "
--Sal Glesser
sal
Re: Steel Hardness In Production Knives
July 22, 2019 08:35PM
Hi Jason,

I'm not able to see your videos. The spot says "This plugin is not supported". What ami I doing wrong?

sal
Re: Steel Hardness In Production Knives
July 22, 2019 11:41PM
sal,
I am not sure what the issue is. Can you access these videos or links?:
[www.youtube.com]





If you click this link, are all the checked boxes blue?

"I am still discussing issues of steels and performance at this stage."
--Cliff Stamp

"Cause geometry cuts, .....steel determines the level and the duration"
--Roman Landes

"But in general, I'm all about high performance, Ergos, safety. That's why I've been accused of 'designing in the dark' "
--Sal Glesser



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/22/2019 11:44PM by jasonstone20.
Re: Steel Hardness In Production Knives
July 23, 2019 12:39PM
sal,
I went and added the links to the videos, let me know if that works for you.

"I am still discussing issues of steels and performance at this stage."
--Cliff Stamp

"Cause geometry cuts, .....steel determines the level and the duration"
--Roman Landes

"But in general, I'm all about high performance, Ergos, safety. That's why I've been accused of 'designing in the dark' "
--Sal Glesser
Re: Steel Hardness In Production Knives
July 24, 2019 11:11AM
Banter 24_7 Talking Points: The Importance Of Hardness




"I am still discussing issues of steels and performance at this stage."
--Cliff Stamp

"Cause geometry cuts, .....steel determines the level and the duration"
--Roman Landes

"But in general, I'm all about high performance, Ergos, safety. That's why I've been accused of 'designing in the dark' "
--Sal Glesser
Re: Steel Hardness In Production Knives
July 27, 2019 07:35AM
[www.youtube.com]




Paddy calls for peace.

"I am still discussing issues of steels and performance at this stage."
--Cliff Stamp

"Cause geometry cuts, .....steel determines the level and the duration"
--Roman Landes

"But in general, I'm all about high performance, Ergos, safety. That's why I've been accused of 'designing in the dark' "
--Sal Glesser
Re: Steel Hardness In Production Knives
July 27, 2019 07:06PM
[www.youtube.com]




Alchemy_1 is going to start doing CATRA testing to add to the work everyone in this group is doing.

"I am still discussing issues of steels and performance at this stage."
--Cliff Stamp

"Cause geometry cuts, .....steel determines the level and the duration"
--Roman Landes

"But in general, I'm all about high performance, Ergos, safety. That's why I've been accused of 'designing in the dark' "
--Sal Glesser
Re: Steel Hardness In Production Knives
July 29, 2019 10:57PM
And.....drama:
[www.youtube.com]




"I am still discussing issues of steels and performance at this stage."
--Cliff Stamp

"Cause geometry cuts, .....steel determines the level and the duration"
--Roman Landes

"But in general, I'm all about high performance, Ergos, safety. That's why I've been accused of 'designing in the dark' "
--Sal Glesser
Re: Steel Hardness In Production Knives
July 30, 2019 03:16PM
Well, ApostleP turned off the comments on the video he made. People were calling him a Shill because he is friendly with the distributor that the Lionsteel knife that had the issue was bought from. We really shouldn't be having drama like this, I don't like it.

"I am still discussing issues of steels and performance at this stage."
--Cliff Stamp

"Cause geometry cuts, .....steel determines the level and the duration"
--Roman Landes

"But in general, I'm all about high performance, Ergos, safety. That's why I've been accused of 'designing in the dark' "
--Sal Glesser
Re: Steel Hardness In Production Knives
July 31, 2019 04:33AM
I'm glad I don't review individual knives
Re: Steel Hardness In Production Knives
July 31, 2019 06:55AM
Larrin,
Yeah, same here. Being a knife tester or knife reviewer isn't really something I want to do, and I respect those that do. I followed Cliff from the usenet days then to KnifeForums and BladeForums, and saw all the drama and nonsense he went through for just asking questions and trying to find answers. I have enough headaches in my life!

"I am still discussing issues of steels and performance at this stage."
--Cliff Stamp

"Cause geometry cuts, .....steel determines the level and the duration"
--Roman Landes

"But in general, I'm all about high performance, Ergos, safety. That's why I've been accused of 'designing in the dark' "
--Sal Glesser
Re: Steel Hardness In Production Knives
July 31, 2019 09:19AM
I invited several members of the group doing this work to join the forum. I did this for a few reasons, the primary being the ability to have a web searchable place to have their work documented and discussed. The discussions have mostly been happening on Discord Message Servers, YouTube comment section, and Instagram posts. These are all hard to search and access for reference, and I believe their work should be documented.

"I am still discussing issues of steels and performance at this stage."
--Cliff Stamp

"Cause geometry cuts, .....steel determines the level and the duration"
--Roman Landes

"But in general, I'm all about high performance, Ergos, safety. That's why I've been accused of 'designing in the dark' "
--Sal Glesser



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/31/2019 09:37AM by jasonstone20.
sal
Re: Steel Hardness In Production Knives
August 04, 2019 06:41AM
Thanx Jason. That works for me.

sal
Re: Steel Hardness In Production Knives
August 04, 2019 07:42AM
sal,
No problem, glad that fixed it.

"I am still discussing issues of steels and performance at this stage."
--Cliff Stamp

"Cause geometry cuts, .....steel determines the level and the duration"
--Roman Landes

"But in general, I'm all about high performance, Ergos, safety. That's why I've been accused of 'designing in the dark' "
--Sal Glesser
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