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Emerson Knives Elvia

Posted by jasonstone20 
Emerson Knives Elvia
June 04, 2020 05:35PM
[emersonknives.com]

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"Gotta love living in 2019 baby, (63rc too soft on a production knife)"
--Shawn Houston
__
"I am still discussing issues of steels and performance at this stage."
--Cliff Stamp
__
"Cause geometry cuts, .....steel determines the level and the duration"
--Roman Landes
__
"But in general, I'm all about high performance, Ergos, safety. That's why I've been accused of 'designing in the dark' "
--Sal Glesser
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StoneSharpEdges

Jason D. Stone on YouTube



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/04/2020 06:00PM by jasonstone20.
Re: Emerson Knives Elvia
June 04, 2020 05:49PM
There is almost nothing about Emerson knives on spec that appeals to me :

[emersonknives.com]

-hollow grind
-S35VN
-57-59 HRC

"The Huck, Hard Use Camp Knife is exactly that! Take it with you on your adventures, cut your steak, cut your kindling. Whatever your outdoor task may be the HUCK is a great companion."

All three of those specs are the opposite of what I would want for performance reasons, hollow grind being the least issue.

-no advantage of high carbide steels in that kind of use, they just lower grindability
-a soft steel with a high carbide volume is weak AND hard to grind, not sure what that is supposed to be doing

The are also associated the the USN, which I can't even talk about as it would all be personal negative commentary.

BUT, if I had full disposable income - likely would buy one, no real idea aside from the fact that I have never have a personal issue with Emerson, and I can't say that with a lot of knife brands/makers.
Re: Emerson Knives Elvia
June 04, 2020 06:07PM
Cliff,
I just thought it was an interesting design. What steel do you think is good for production folders meant for EDC? I don't have anything in a higher carbide than D2, S30V, and Elmax. I prefer lower carbide steels, since I usually push cut and run high polished edges at low angles. I really like AEB-L, would love to get a knife in Nitrobe 77. I can get by with AUS 8/8Cr13, 154CM, S30V, or VG-10. I also would like a knife in M2, or Super Blue (or one of it's equivalents). I have a couple blades in 80CrV2, it is very nice at 64 HRC, although it rusts if you look at it sideways. Spyderco's SPY 27 looks interesting, I have been wanting to see a steel with those specs for sometime, as I think it would work well for a production folder.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gotta love living in 2019 baby, (63rc too soft on a production knife)"
--Shawn Houston
__
"I am still discussing issues of steels and performance at this stage."
--Cliff Stamp
__
"Cause geometry cuts, .....steel determines the level and the duration"
--Roman Landes
__
"But in general, I'm all about high performance, Ergos, safety. That's why I've been accused of 'designing in the dark' "
--Sal Glesser
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
StoneSharpEdges

Jason D. Stone on YouTube
cKc
Re: Emerson Knives Elvia
June 04, 2020 06:53PM
AEBL.. just so good.

here is the problem i have when someone asks what is good for EDC (not picking you you Jason grinning smiley )

do you want Every Day Carry, or Every Day USE.. EDU..

because i see a lot of knives out there for EDC, that literally never say EDU.

so if its EDC, pick any steel.. an armchair knife can be what ever it needs to be..
but EDU.. you want one that you can sharpen out of your pocket as needed. you want one that you can repair, out of your pocket.

This concept of an edc lasting for days, or even 1 day, until i get home is nonsense. EDU get damaged. damage needs repair unless you carry 2 knives in your pocket, and then a 3rd as backup for the 2nd.

so.. EDC.. anything..

EDU. AEBL, a very coarse diamond and a fine diamond..

----------------------------------------------------------------------
It's not Cliff, its Dr Stamp
#kebabstickcut, it's a thing - make it happen
Re: Emerson Knives Elvia
June 04, 2020 07:14PM
cKc,
Yes, use not just carry. I carry multiple blades along with a sharpener, so I don't worry about my knives getting dull.

Cliff,
I always wanted a CQC-8 and/or a Commander from Emerson. There is just something about the ergos and the super grippy G10 that are a great combination.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gotta love living in 2019 baby, (63rc too soft on a production knife)"
--Shawn Houston
__
"I am still discussing issues of steels and performance at this stage."
--Cliff Stamp
__
"Cause geometry cuts, .....steel determines the level and the duration"
--Roman Landes
__
"But in general, I'm all about high performance, Ergos, safety. That's why I've been accused of 'designing in the dark' "
--Sal Glesser
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
StoneSharpEdges

Jason D. Stone on YouTube
Re: Emerson Knives Elvia
June 04, 2020 08:07PM
It has to be considered, this is a personal issue because it comes down to what you want. Here is what I want, if a knife is to be used for cutting mainly clean materials, no impacts :

-simple steel, hardened for maximum strength

For dirty materials, impacts :

-simple steel, ideally can be filed (< 60 HRC)
-hardened for maximum toughness (prevent chipping, gross fracture)

The reason is :

-sharpen very fast, high sharpness, minimal burr formation (that means it doesn't form)
-strongly resists damage (rolling or impact)
-abrades with simple abrasives (I have very fancy and expensive ones yes, including diamond and cbn, stones, sprays, papers, etc.)

This means :

-W1, O1, SB, AEB-L, M2, etc.

and then

-1084, L6, etc. .

My brother however hates sharpening, and he will use knives until they are extremely dull, like literally they are ripping material. He will favor something like D2 at maximum strength for a smaller knife, similar tastes on larger knives.

The main thing is you have to match the steel/hardening to your preferences.
Re: Emerson Knives Elvia
June 04, 2020 08:08PM
Another thing that made me want an Emerson, is that SuperSteelSteve did a prying test with a few knives: A Kershaw Emerson, an EKI Emerson, and a Strider folder. He then hammered each knife into a board, 1" deep. The only knife that did not break was the EKI Emerson. Steve attributed this to the EKI Emerson being 0.125" thick stock. The Kershaw was 0.110" stone, and the Strider was thicker than them all, but it was S90V or M390, so Steve said the tip broke on that knife because of the steel and HT. Not sure if this is right, but it was interesting to watch.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gotta love living in 2019 baby, (63rc too soft on a production knife)"
--Shawn Houston
__
"I am still discussing issues of steels and performance at this stage."
--Cliff Stamp
__
"Cause geometry cuts, .....steel determines the level and the duration"
--Roman Landes
__
"But in general, I'm all about high performance, Ergos, safety. That's why I've been accused of 'designing in the dark' "
--Sal Glesser
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
StoneSharpEdges

Jason D. Stone on YouTube
Re: Emerson Knives Elvia
June 04, 2020 08:16PM
Cliff,
That is what I have tried to explain to people, unsuccessfully. The steel choice should depend on what and how you are cutting, sharpening concerns and opportunities. Since I push cut instead of slice, and favor high polished edges because of that, I like steels that have a good edge stability. I have noticed that with steels like D2, 154CM, VG-10, if I take them under 15° DPS, they can microchip in use sometimes, but this doesn't always happen. It happens more often if I use diamonds and ceramics vs waterstones, for burr sharpening. I should try the diamonds and ceramics without forming a burr. This doesn't happen with my samples of S30V steel I have in a few knives, I am liking it as an EDC steel for how it sharpens and wears. It doesn't seem that a lot of production folders are using simpler steels these days, at least in the models I like. Everything seems to start at S30V and up, except for the budget models. One reason I do like the budget models.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gotta love living in 2019 baby, (63rc too soft on a production knife)"
--Shawn Houston
__
"I am still discussing issues of steels and performance at this stage."
--Cliff Stamp
__
"Cause geometry cuts, .....steel determines the level and the duration"
--Roman Landes
__
"But in general, I'm all about high performance, Ergos, safety. That's why I've been accused of 'designing in the dark' "
--Sal Glesser
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
StoneSharpEdges

Jason D. Stone on YouTube
Re: Emerson Knives Elvia
June 04, 2020 08:38PM
This video :

[www.youtube.com]

That blade which is slightly thinner, has a completely different grind. For reference, strength is quadratic with thickness, there isn't a magic number. The reason why the Emerson blade is strong is because it is essentially not deeply ground, so it is behaving almost like flat stock. Strength is also linear with width. I could not find the Strider video, but if it was thicker, and not more deeply ground, and it broke easier then it likely had some kind of preexisting fracture. Note it isn't consistent to say S90V is weaker than the Emerson steel, but the Emerson is stronger than the production/Emerson, as that is inconsistent with carbide behavior (in one case more carbide makes the steel stronger, in another it makes it weaker).

A higher carbide and harder steel will be stronger, but the difference in strength is minimal normally, unless you go really extreme like compare 10V to AEB-L, and even then you likely would not want to promote prying with 10V as the steel is brittle so you will get lateral failure readily due to things like repeated stress cracking (or cracking through machined points, etc. as corners will be a dramatic issue). This means even though it looks like you are not damaging it at all, suddenly under very low cycles you do something that always worked and then it just doesn't and fails because all those times you were prying and it looked ok, you were micro-cracking the steel. This is why prying tools don't have a high carbide volume.

I am glad these people are using knives, but you can't use one knife, take it to failure and make generalizations about steels, especially when there are so many different things about the knives, even if they were the same knife in every aspect aside from the steel. I would want to break more than one of them, and have that correlate to the materials data, and talk to the manufacturer before even offering an opinion.
Re: Emerson Knives Elvia
June 04, 2020 09:13PM
Cliff,
Yes, that is the video. I think I mixed up this video with the 3V Bugout video, which I think had the Strider. I was thinking that the EKI Emerson had a thicker grind to it that the Kershaw Emerson, and was also thicker in the tip.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gotta love living in 2019 baby, (63rc too soft on a production knife)"
--Shawn Houston
__
"I am still discussing issues of steels and performance at this stage."
--Cliff Stamp
__
"Cause geometry cuts, .....steel determines the level and the duration"
--Roman Landes
__
"But in general, I'm all about high performance, Ergos, safety. That's why I've been accused of 'designing in the dark' "
--Sal Glesser
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
StoneSharpEdges

Jason D. Stone on YouTube
cKc
Re: Emerson Knives Elvia
June 04, 2020 11:52PM
Quote
Jason
. Since I push cut instead of slice, and favor high polished edges because of that, I like steels that have a good edge stability.

At some point. i think we need to start a new thread on this and explore it and see if what you say is what you mean, vs what i think you mean.

i have watched a lot of people say that they push cut, when in reality they are not,

also i think it will factor into what is being cut.

will you for example only push cut a tomato? i would like to see this.
on a down cut typocally for example, it might look like a push, but it may move 1cm across while going down, like a CATRA cut. this utilizes all the little teeth for an easier cut. most "push" cuts in the kitchen are not really push cuts, just not long draw cuts, utilizing natural arm motion. its actually more effort ot push cut than let the knife follow elbow motion.

same in cardboard, or anything like that. if the blade is on a 45 then its an inline draw cut, not a push cut.


1" rope? will you really push down, and not use any horizontal draw to maximize the cut?

I'm at the point now, where this has confused me a lot as you repeat it, but i think i'd like to see examples if you dont mind to see if we are on the same page about what you mean.

the only genuine push cuts i think i ever do would be pulling my razor across my face.

slicing a steak.. can't really imagine how you'd push cut a steak unless you have a long knife or hold the steak in the air grinning smiley

----------------------------------------------------------------------
It's not Cliff, its Dr Stamp
#kebabstickcut, it's a thing - make it happen
Re: Emerson Knives Elvia
June 05, 2020 08:52AM
cKc,
Started a new thread:
[www.cliffstamp.com]

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gotta love living in 2019 baby, (63rc too soft on a production knife)"
--Shawn Houston
__
"I am still discussing issues of steels and performance at this stage."
--Cliff Stamp
__
"Cause geometry cuts, .....steel determines the level and the duration"
--Roman Landes
__
"But in general, I'm all about high performance, Ergos, safety. That's why I've been accused of 'designing in the dark' "
--Sal Glesser
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
StoneSharpEdges

Jason D. Stone on YouTube
Re: Emerson Knives Elvia
June 06, 2020 05:18PM
-Emerson
-Designed as a weapon
-Connection to martial arts weabooism

It'll sell just fine.

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Bill22252 on YouTube. "See you space cowboy"

Resident Emerson Fanboi

Folding knives are fun, fixed blades are important.
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