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Keffeler Custom

Posted by CliffStamp 
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Keffeler Custom
July 05, 2012 05:27PM
After watching Noss's review of the custom monster for Dan I contacted him about making one last year, we discussed a lot of things. Initially I wanted really heavy stock, but it was very difficult to get, and I had some experimental ideas about HT. The knife ended up at 0.272" stock, and a rough finished weight of 1255 grams.

Enclosed partial tang :



Extended grip :



Large blade :



I got a recent update from Dan :



The handle needed some finishing work (shaping and texturing) and is now being sheathed. It will be very interesting to compare this to a similar in intent but very different in execution, a modified version of his larger Forrester pattern.



Re: Keffeler Custom
July 05, 2012 06:12PM
Drool.
Re: Keffeler Custom
July 05, 2012 07:54PM
Funny, the last picture is really misleading, it looks like it would be similar to a Camp Tramp / Basic 7 in size.

I also finally was able to track down my 18" AK Khukuri from HI so I can do a comparison of :

-Keffeler
-cKc
-18" Ang Khola
-CS Kukri Machete
-Caine

As they are are larger style blades. I was going to see if I could get Gav to sell me his Excalibur but he already had it sold.
Re: Keffeler Custom
July 06, 2012 10:06AM
That's a damn big knife. What do you hope to gain with that angle of the handle?
Re: Keffeler Custom
July 10, 2012 07:04AM
That is an awsome looking knife. LOVE IT !



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/10/2012 07:05AM by Noss.
Re: Keffeler Custom
July 11, 2012 03:21AM
Funny, it was your video on Keffler's blade that convinced me to pull the trigger on this one, I actually wanted him to make it out of the same stock, which he thought was funny as he had that just for a integral project. But unfortunately (or maybe fortunately for my wrist) it wasn't practical because for some reason not a lot of people want that thickness in a knife so you can't buy the stock - silly knife users.

I may actually be tempted to do an on boxing of this knife as it is a bit on the north side of extreme and it is simply going to dwarf what people think of when they think of large knives as it is even a decent sized parang, especially if you take advantage of the rear grip. I may even buy some 2x4 out of white pine which is commonly used in the chopping competitions as that video would be kind of amusing. I would however need to build a platform which could actually take the shock of the impact.

Silliness aside, this is a working knife, and I look forward to using it alongside a few others in the same general class to explore some things I am curious about.
Re: Keffeler Custom
July 11, 2012 11:37AM
Can you imagine the reaction if you do an unboxing and show it next to some other popular knives like the BM
Re: Keffeler Custom
July 13, 2012 01:50PM
Yeah it would have been a heavy blade if he made it out of the same stock he made mine. I would like to try it in the field but it's going to add some serious weight to my pack and I have to send it back to him.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/13/2012 01:51PM by Noss.
Re: Keffeler Custom
July 13, 2012 02:39PM
Quote
styx
Can you imagine the reaction if you do an unboxing and show it next to some other popular knives like the BM

Perspective is a funny thing.

For awhile (this is late nineties) the biggest baddest chopping knife was the ATAK from Kevin McClung. Earl Stewart, who was running Knife Forums at the time, and was a dealer for McClung had claimed to have an open challenge for chopping where he would put an ATAK vs any other knife and he had always won and claimed the other knife. Now if you ever have seen an ATAK, and you know a little about knives you would realize this is pretty ridiculous - but these really were the dark ages. There was no way to know the edge angle/thickness, balance/weight of knives and there were constantly arguments such as blades cut better because of how they were forged / hardened.

A number of reviews started to come out showing this was nonsensical. Mike Swaim did huge comparisons on rec.knives showing how weight/heft and edge angle/thickness were was controlled performance and once you knew this you could very roughly rank blades just by doing a visual inspection and giving it a simple swing. A number of people did reviews on the ATAK directly and the results were very poor, low chopping ability and high edge fragility, lots of chipping on just regular wood (Nemo and Fred, Mike Turber, etc. . ). These sealed the end of discussion of the ATAK from that perspective and McClung went out of the public forums - though he never lost his core popularity and his prices continued to climb.

The Trailmaster and Battle Mistress clashed for awhile with even ads almost against each other with very strong implications and for awhile it looked like we would see a direct head to head with each other at Blade but it never happened. Now the doors have opened and much of the juvenile fantasy is gone and you can easily find the specification on knives, and it isn't that hard to find actual direct comparisons in general, though it still is a bit of an issue to sort out some conclusions. Just imagine, if you think it would have an impact now, just imagine if this reveal was done back at the height of the Battle Mistress popularity on the forums. But yeah even now, it is likely to be a bit of an eye opener.




Quote
Noss
Yeah it would have been a heavy blade if he made it out of the same stock he made mine.

Yeah I am not certain if it would be practical, but that is why experimentation is enjoyable anyway and besides, it isn't like it is difficult to find a 1/4" bowie with a 10" blade.

I was curious how it would work in the field compared to a more regular sized knife as there was a bit of flak on that being made just to pass the destruction test and not to actually be a functional tool.
Re: Keffeler Custom
July 13, 2012 02:45PM
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CliffStamp
Quote
Noss
Yeah it would have been a heavy blade if he made it out of the same stock he made mine.

Yeah I am not certain if it would be practical, but that is why experimentation is enjoyable anyway and besides, it isn't like it is difficult to find a 1/4" bowie with a 10" blade.

I was curious how it would work in the field compared to a more regular sized knife as there was a bit of flak on that being made just to pass the destruction test and not to actually be a functional tool.

Well when you look at how Dan's competition knives perform and then you looked at how that thing chopped. Well I think it didn't match peoples expectations. And surely the knife would of still been top of the line durability in a smaller stock.
Re: Keffeler Custom
July 13, 2012 03:15PM
The main thing in performance is the edge thickness/angle as the competition knives are very thick, it isn't uncommon for them to be well over 1/4". The Benchmade for example is over 0.3" thick :





With a decent grinder and a ceramic belt, Dan would be able to drop the flats down and reduce the edge to 0.015-0.025/10-15 dps in less than ten minutes.

But of course if you took a cutting competition knife and smashed it into the concrete you are likely to get damage into the primary as these knives can even get damaged on knots in wood.
Re: Keffeler Custom
July 13, 2012 05:50PM
As an update, the sheath is finished. Dan will be getting the knife back next week and it should ship shortly after that, so looks like I should have it within a month.
Re: Keffeler Custom
July 25, 2012 01:53PM
Update :




and sheathed :


Re: Keffeler Custom
July 25, 2012 03:18PM
Wow!
Man, i wish i would have know you were interested in the excalibur. Now seeing all these monsters you have, i will have to make you one as well lol. What a beasts. Excalibur would fit perfect in the group. Although, that is a fierce an famous competition i would be worried to put my amateur work against. I wasnt even planning on selling my excalibur but a customer who bought lot of fairly expensives knives from me (lol he also have one of ryanrrxs sharpened prybars, that why he started buying my knives actually after he realized what he bought from him lol) asked me if i would consider selling it to him and i broke and sold it with goal of making myself a new one that will be even better.
My hands and wallet ache just from the thought of grinding another monster like that lol.
Looking forward to see the videos about these big guns Cliff.
Re: Keffeler Custom
July 26, 2012 02:21AM
Quote
gavko
... (lol he also have one of ryanrrxs sharpened prybars, that why he started buying my knives actually after he realized what he bought from him lol) ...

Funny, that would make for a hell of a comparison. Ryan is an interesting guy, it would be even more interesting to see how much his knives change in the same period that you have been making knives. The main problem is that he isn't evaluating his knives consistently and reacts not well at all to any criticism.

He puts a lot of effort into it obviously, huge investment with his new grinder, doesn't spare expense on the steels and is getting decent at sharpening but really he would benefit from some open discussion. And what is up with the nuts and bolts on the handles?
Re: Keffeler Custom
July 26, 2012 12:28PM
Quote
CliffStamp
Quote
gavko
... (lol he also have one of ryanrrxs sharpened prybars, that why he started buying my knives actually after he realized what he bought from him lol) ...

Funny, that would make for a hell of a comparison. Ryan is an interesting guy, it would be even more interesting to see how much his knives change in the same period that you have been making knives. The main problem is that he isn't evaluating his knives consistently and reacts not well at all to any criticism.

He puts a lot of effort into it obviously, huge investment with his new grinder, doesn't spare expense on the steels and is getting decent at sharpening but really he would benefit from some open discussion. And what is up with the nuts and bolts on the handles?

I think i mentioned it in one email in the past, his problem is this,
He isnt all that bad when everything is alright, BUT,
He has anger issues, is lazy and talks too much.
So the combination of those, when a lazy guy who thinks and pretends to know more then he actually does makes something not because of love but because of the hustle To make money. And when you try to help the guy in any way, or even better when the guy works for you and you tell him what he should do, it leads him to lose his temper... The main problem is the big talk.
Nuts and bolts lmao. I too couldnt believe how much longer he will use that embarassing hardware. Or how much longer before he puts in the effort to drill the whole at least somewhat even throughout the handle...
He should focus on making a good functioning simple knives and forget about the bs complex ground, crappy pattern looking handle knives because he clearly cant to either yet. I think the main problem is the reasoning behind his knifemaking. You know what they say... Money spoil things...

Cliff, a question. Im thinking about making 2 or 3 more exact copies of the exalibur 2.0 i ground yesterday. Cpm3v, cpm s35vn and 1095. What do you think? Should i go for it?
Despite the crazy work (my hands still hurt from yesterday) its just my absolute favorite blade i've done so far. Its gonna be expensive so i might end up not selling them, but if there is a knife i would not mind not being able to sell... This is it smiling smiley
Re: Keffeler Custom
July 26, 2012 05:28PM
Quote
gavko

The main problem is the big talk.

Yeah, you can talk big, but you have to be prepared to be called on it and actually demonstrate it. Kyley for example is pretty open that in his opinion his own blades are very high performance - but he will demonstrate this and has no problem in defending his claims. But if you make the claims, don't demonstrate it and then lock down the comments on your video's when a few people make questions/points - well it is hard to take the claim of legendary a bit serious. I do have to give him credit for ambition though.

Quote

Cliff, a question. Im thinking about making 2 or 3 more exact copies of the exalibur 2.0 i ground yesterday. Cpm3v, cpm s35vn and 1095. What do you think? Should i go for it?

I will take the 3V or 1095 one, the 1095 especially if you can get the bainite that you have in that Survival Sword.

I would like a couple of minor alterations to the handle. I am not a big fan of the high carbide steels in larger blades as I use mine pretty extensively and I don't have many reservations about use as they are all working blades, even the pretty ones, and I like to be able to clean up the edge very quickly and minimize any chipping on harder contacts.

Clearing low scrub brush close to the roots for example can put the edge in contact with the ground on occasion, and working on deadfall, especially in the winter when it is covered in ice can bring the edge in contact with rocks. And there are idiots around here which spike wood with nails constantly which is a great way to start your day when the first few chops make that tell tale clang into steel.
Re: Keffeler Custom
July 26, 2012 07:58PM
i will try to start working on it as a side project. big sheet of 1095, some CADs, water jet and then have it Austempered by my friends Jared form onmivore blade works (well, his heat treatment guy rather, but hes the one who will help me to get it done...) it will be a long term project i feel though... too many steps and too much shipping. but it will save a lot of belts and elbow grease...
Re: Keffeler Custom
July 26, 2012 08:19PM
I really don't care about time, so if you ever to want to sell it just let me know and I don't mind paying for it now to make sure you don't get bound up in any resource issues. But if you want to make it for yourself, that's cool, can understand that as well.
Re: Keffeler Custom
July 26, 2012 08:21PM
no worry about resources. no problems with that. i will get it done sooner or later and you'll be the first on the list...
Re: Keffeler Custom
July 27, 2012 01:39AM
Cliff, do you have that picture i emailed you? can you draw into that those alternations you would want and email it back to me? i'll order some 3V and make it as one off custom...
Re: Keffeler Custom
July 27, 2012 02:58AM
No problem.
Re: Keffeler Custom
July 28, 2012 02:22PM
Quote
CliffStamp
I will take the 3V or 1095 one, the 1095 especially if you can get the bainite that you have in that Survival Sword.

1095 bainite? Is the Survival Sword (great name for a chopper btw) completely bainite, or is it bainite with a martensite edge a la Howard Clark's katana's?

How does 1095 bainite compare to L6 bainite?

One more thing smiling smiley Is 3V really superior to 5160 for a chopper? How do they compare in toughness and edge holding? I tend to believe all the trendy knife steels get a bigger reputation than they deserve. Keffeler does seem to really like 3V however, and I do value his opinion highly.
Re: Keffeler Custom
July 28, 2012 10:29PM
Quote
Chum

1095 bainite? Is the Survival Sword (great name for a chopper btw) completely bainite, or is it bainite with a martensite edge a la Howard Clark's katana's?

How does 1095 bainite compare to L6 bainite?

One more thing smiling smiley Is 3V really superior to 5160 for a chopper? How do they compare in toughness and edge holding?

The blade is listed as austempered, and on some of the pages he quotes one hardness so I would assume it is solid bainite : [selfrelianceessentials.com] .

There isn't a lot of reference on bainite that I have seen in regards to materials properties. I would suspect that there would be a greater difference in the properties dependent on exactly how the bainite is formed vs that difference in the steel. As a general inference you would expect higher impact toughness in L6 and higher wear in 1095, but again difference in how they bainite formed could make this moot.

3V has vastly greater wear resistance than 5160, and in general is likely to be a more clean steel (PM tool steel), but 5160 is easier to grind, easier to harden, not as expensive to buy and would be comparable (likely slightly higher in toughness)

In general I would pick a steel similar to 5160 as the higher wear resistance is not going to be of benefit in any way I can imagine, and will just make it more difficult to sharpen once the blade takes the inevitable damage.
Re: Keffeler Custom
August 09, 2012 11:17PM
The knife arrived, I have some video's uploading. This combination of power and cutting ability this has is pretty insane. I am using it in the most forward and weak position until I get a full feel of the cutting ability and still, it tears through wood. Really happy with how it turned out in all respects, grip, handle and sheath.
Re: Keffeler Custom
August 09, 2012 11:31PM
Can't wait to see/read more about it!
Re: Keffeler Custom
August 10, 2012 12:21AM
Interested in reading how you like the handle design during use.
Re: Keffeler Custom
August 10, 2012 02:49AM
First impressions :



Re: Keffeler Custom
August 10, 2012 03:39AM
That certainly is one hell of a blade you have there cliff. Where would you say the point of balance is?
Re: Keffeler Custom
August 10, 2012 03:40AM
Quote
Agith
That certainly is one hell of a blade you have there cliff. Where would you say the point of balance is?
he showed it in the video. it looks like 2-3 inches front of the handle top.