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Hudson Bay Camp - Gamma Brand

Posted by CliffStamp 
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Hudson Bay Camp - Gamma Brand
March 11, 2012 02:50AM
A shot :



- Survival Tool
- Junglas
- Cold Steel Bushman
- Hudson Bay Camp

Specifications :

- blade is 0.25" thick, 9.5" long
- handle is paper stone
- steel is Z50Cr14 (similar to 12C27M, Krupp 4116, 420 HC, etc.)
- weight is 540 grams
- balance is 1 3/4" in front of the handle
- edge is 0.015" thick, 13-14 degrees per side
- convex primary grind

Making some shavings for firestarting, it cuts right alongside a #1260 Mora :

- penetration and control is high
-comfortable handle

[www.youtube.com]

In the kitchen it works extremely well as basically a heavy Chef's knife :



Chopping, it easily stands alongside a 14" Fiskar's Sportsman :



The only immediate concerns is that the handle is fairly slick, otherwise it fits the name fairly well and would be a very nice camp knife.
Re: Hudson Bay Camp - Gamma Brand
March 11, 2012 04:52AM
Sweet chopper Cliff!
Re: Hudson Bay Camp - Gamma Brand
March 11, 2012 05:56AM
Chum Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Sweet chopper Cliff!

It does handle the wood work very well, it was far too windy to catch much video, I need to get a muffler for the camera, but it easily went through the wood. What most stands out though is the balance of the design, it was just as capable in the kitchen. A little heavier than a Chef's knife yes, but unlike for example the Junglas which I would use and not be uncomfortable with, the Hudson Bay moves up a step to a knife which just fits in there, you don't feel like you are making something fit. I may make this my next kitchen knife for the edge retention trials if the Chicago Cutlery lasts another few weeks.
Re: Hudson Bay Camp - Gamma Brand
March 11, 2012 09:42PM
Ack! I just wrote a long edit to my post and now it won't allow me to edit it. I'm going to repost the whole thing before I lose it...

Your talk on controllability got me to thinking about some of my blades...

Here's my Boker Vox Bob. Despite being 7mm thick it is by far my easiest to control blade when cutting...


I can really wrap my hand around it and get the pad of my thumb forward and beyond where the blade starts...


Guiding tip cutting with my index finger...


Or I can put my hand much futher back when slicing with the tip...


By putting my thumb over the spine, nearly to the tip I can push cut with great control and force if need be...



In contrast my Cold Steel Espada offers a lot of reach and a locked in grip, but it doesn't offer much in the way of controlled cutting because my hand is so far back from the blade, as you pointed out with your Bushman Cliff. The handle does what is is meant to though... turn it into a fighter...


Here I am chocking up on it, but the blade can easily end up touching my finger dangerously...



My Spyderco doesn't offer much controllability either...




My M-Tech Hawkbill gives me more control than my Espada or Spyderco, but still falls well short of the Boker Vox...


I can choke up on it some, and it has it's own unique cutting control due to its downward facing tip...


Here's a much larger blade that actually has good controllability when cutting. Again, like Cliff's Hudson, I can get a decent portion of my hand over the blade...







I tend to like the blades, in general, that use the width of the blade itself as guard, as Cliff's Hudson Bay and my Boker Vox do. I think you tend to see that a lot in kitchen knives, and there is a obviously a good reason for it.

With the Hudson Bay, or the Boker Vox, you get that kitchen knife cutting control but in a much tougher design, making them very useful for wood carving of all kinds.

I hope I'm not hijacking your thread too much here Cliff, just wanted to throw my 2 cents in on the controllability issues. This seemed like a good place to do it.

One more thing! The last time I replied to one of Geoff's (the Gamma Brand guy) threads on Knifetest.com I was a bit heated over a perceived political issue. Perhaps I wasn't as nice as I should have been, politics does that to me sometimes unfortunately. I mean, of course he's going to have screwy political ideas, he can't help it being French and all (I kid! I kid!) Anyway... I have yet to hold a Gamma Brand knife, but from everything I've seen and read about them, Geoff is a true knife master. I doubt anyone can find blades with as functional, AND PRETTY LOOKING, handles anywhere. I truely mean that.

Besides... french-blooded, knife nuts named Geoff HAVE to stick together! From one to another, I hope we see the other Geoff on these forums soon.
Re: Hudson Bay Camp - Gamma Brand
March 11, 2012 10:45PM
Chum Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Ack! I just wrote a long edit to my post and now
> it won't allow me to edit it.

I just reviewed the settings, there was a default of a 5 min editing time, it is now set to 60 mins.

> Here's my Boker Vox Bob. Despite being 7mm thick
> it is by far my easiest to control blade when
> cutting...

I think in general handles are often an afterthought, sometimes to the extent that it is obvious they are non function, or at a minimum not in the same class as the blade. One of the things that stands out to me often is why scales don't run up into the choil area. For example :





Now imagine that handle with the scales going up and over the index finger area. If that was done then that part is essentially a grip extension instead of an index finger cutout in the choil area.


> My Spyderco doesn't offer much controllability
> either...

I like many things about Spyderco knives, but that little space isn't one of them. It is there enough to cause a leverage disadvantage when cutting - but not so large you can use it as a point of control. That is one of their classic designs though, like the Buck 110 so it isn't likely to go anywhere soon.

> Here's a much larger blade that actually has good
> controllability when cutting.

I like the custom handle, what exactly is that knife?

> I tend to like the blades, in general, that use
> the width of the blade itself as guard, as Cliff's
> Hudson Bay and my Boker Vox do. I think you tend
> to see that a lot in kitchen knives, and there is
> a obviously a good reason for it.

Joe Talmadge was one of the first people to speak out about this as a feature and how it integrated control and security into the design of a knife. He even had a knife made which was meant to be a fusion of a camp and tactical knife. Trace Rinaldi made it :

[www.thrblades.com]

David Boye also used this design heavily, never really promoted as a tactical knife, but more of a utility, boat and food knife :

[boyeknives.com]

Fred Perrin also uses that design, and he has a strong martial background :

[www.edcknives.com]

The only real downside of it is that it forces a wide blade, Fred gets around that with the recessed handle so while the blade is dropped, it is to the index finger and not the entire hand.


> Anyway... I have yet to hold a Gamma Brand knife,
> but from everything I've seen and read about them,
> Geoff is a true knife master.

The main thing that struck me was character, you can learn skill, and with enough patience you can pretty much learn to do anything, but you either have character or you don't.
Re: Hudson Bay Camp - Gamma Brand
March 11, 2012 11:45PM
I'm blushing... No, seriously, hold your horses. I'm glad my work is appreciated, but I want it to be face value. No hype, no exageration. Cliff seems to have a good first opinion on the Hudson Bay Camp. Good thing for us both, he gets a knife he likes, and my making process are validated through user experience. But I'm no master! I'm just trying to do my job the way I would like others to do theirs (well, I'm aware I do what I like, it's a privilege compared to some peoples that were forced into jobs they don't like because life can be a bitch). User experience validate. OldSpice liked the N.1, and seems to still like it, but there's not even one year passed since he received it. Groguik likes his N.2 as well, but rarely get the chance to make it sweat how it's 8mm thick blade deserves. Both ordered from me again, so I guess they're happy with their purchase. Here again, good for us all, but it's not like if I had 20 years of experience behind me.

You know, it's not so easy to try to keep the head cool, have fair prices, etc. Everyday is a fight against vanity, to always work for and with the "custuser", be curious to learn and improve, and ready to accept criticism. I don't want ever to be the kind of stuck up bitch that almost insult a customer for reporting a failure, nor the kind of greedy personnage that use recognition only as a fulcrum to increase prices. I'm happy when I read a review from a satisfied user, but I feel uneasy when I read I'm a master. I'm just 25, and been making knives seriously only for a year and a half! I'm glad if my initial efforts are oriented in the right direction, and allow me to make the customer happy, but praises... I havent proved myself enought to deserve them.

Oh la la, Chum, you made me angry. I'm gonna eat frogs legs and drink champagne. Hope this will help forget that affront.
Re: Hudson Bay Camp - Gamma Brand
March 12, 2012 12:30AM
It's good to see you on here Madnum! I hope we can keep something as silly as politics kicked to the curb. I promise to do my best in that regard.

Your handles and blade shapes look masterful to me. I mean that. Perhaps one day you can take my greedy capitalist pig money in exchange for one of your blades... Aw shit there I go again... Really, just kidding grinning smiley

It isn't hard to tell from looking how functional your knives are. On this Hudson Bay for instance... you did an excellent job with the tip. Yes the tip. It clearly meets a practical medium of having both good penetration ability and good strength. Most of the camp knives I see swing too far in one direction or the other. You either get an overly flimsy clip point that will break if put to hard use, or an overly rounded drop point that while tough will lack good penetration ability. Just my opinion, and a very generalized one, but that's how I see it. Your handles just look flat out excellent in form and function. My hat is off to you.

Cliff... The large blade I posted a picture of above is none other than one of my three Cold Steel Perfect Balance Throwing Bowies. Cheap, thick, well designed 1055 steel. They have an elongated handle which is for throwing balance, but I've found to just be useful in general. The knife chops pretty well for a 15 ouncer, and the handle is long enough to get a full two handed grip if need be. It's decent for batoning although not great. It sharpens VERY easily, and it is VERY tough. How tough? Not sure exactly but all three of my throwers have experienced a ton of hard throwing for a good year now. I've also done a fair amount of wood processing with them. No issues.

The handles... currently they are sporting my own custom made Duct Tape handles spinning smiley sticking its tongue out Nothing else I've tried can stand up to the throwing abuse I put them through. I purchased some horse stall matting that I plan to experiment with. I have an idea for a horse stall mat + paracord combo handle. We'll see. Until then the Duct Tape will have to do. That's digital camo pattern Duct Tape btw. I'll probably go with saftey orange next because sometimes I lose the damn things.
Re: Hudson Bay Camp - Gamma Brand
March 12, 2012 12:35AM
Madnumforce Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> You know, it's not so easy to try to keep the head
> cool, have fair prices, etc. Everyday is a fight
> against vanity, to always work for and with the
> "custuser", be curious to learn and improve, and
> ready to accept criticism. I don't want ever to be
> the kind of stuck up bitch that almost insult a
> customer for reporting a failure, nor the kind of
> greedy personnage that use recognition only as a
> fulcrum to increase prices.

One of the hardest things is fighting the mentality that can come from a group which can be self-feeding and even with the best of intentions can start to generate disinformation. As a maker if you realize that one of your customers is saying something which you know is starting to verge on exaggeration, and especially if they are being very vocal about it, multi-posts/forums, etc. then it isn't trivial to resolve it and keep the customer without offending them. One of the best ways is to simply be open and honest about performance and thus all customers are doing is validating, not creating which is what leads to the dark side.



More chopping done today, no surprises, I just wanted to confirm that the performance held over thicker wood and in particular that nothing strange happened with the handle. On thinner wood when the penetration is very high then cutting in general is so smooth that most handles will feel comfortable but when the blade stops in the cut at under an inch or so the feedback is amplified (as acceleration in the stopping of the blade and the resulting force is a direct function of the distance in the cut). No issues on cutting 2x4 and larger pieces of wood.



In some detail, there was no significant difference noted compared to the Fiskar's Sportsman in regards to number of chops required, and no real difference in fluidity of cut (and thus time) except on the thinnest woods. The only concern noted was on really deep cuts where the blade would go more than its depth into the wood it could close around the blade and the square spine could lodge the blade in the wood, a rounded spine would been of benefit here - that isn't a hard thing to do, even without power tools, but a 36 grit belt will break the edges almost instantly.

The only significant problem was that the edge rolled all along the contact area, just enough to be visible and reflect light. This happened after the first cutting session, about 150 chops or so, the edge was just deformed and immediately was restored just by a brief cleaning on my pant leg (which is denium + stone swarf) and then on the second session rolled again - which would be expected as the stropping just aligned the edge, it didn't remove the weakened metal.

Now while some may consider that 100+ chops should be expected to roll an edge, this simply isn't true for quality steel + hardening + sharpening. The Fiskars for example was not effected by any of the chopping and finished with no significant difference. I normally have to run multiple trials with the Fiskars against other tools before it has to be sharpened and this is always 1000+ chops. I confirmed that the edge on the Hudson Bay came from a power buffer and this explains the early rolling.

I will have to confirm this of course with more chopping after sharpening which I will do later.

The other thing that stood out just confirmed while I don't like exposed tangs as the temperature was dropping in the afternoon and I could use the Fiskar's grip with no exposed metal far longer than I could the Hudson Bay as the exposed tang simply conducts heat (or lack of it) extremely rapidly. Of course it isn't a big thing to use gloves, but I don't like being forced to. A simple overwrap can solve this of course and also remove the issue with the slickness of the grip.
Re: Hudson Bay Camp - Gamma Brand
March 12, 2012 01:42AM
Chum Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>... one of my three Cold
> Steel Perfect Balance Throwing Bowies. Cheap,
> thick, well designed 1055 steel. They have an
> elongated handle which is for throwing balance,
> but I've found to just be useful in general. The
> knife chops pretty well for a 15 ouncer, and the
> handle is long enough to get a full two handed
> grip if need be. It's decent for batoning although
> not great. It sharpens VERY easily, and it is VERY
> tough. How tough? Not sure exactly but all three
> of my throwers have experienced a ton of hard
> throwing for a good year now. I've also done a
> fair amount of wood processing with them. No
> issues.

Ironically while people complain in general about throwing knives, actual dedicated throwing knives generally do tend to make useful cutting tools with a little regrind / handle work. The funny thing is how little there is wrote about this while it is commonly to write about the utility of tomahawks which are obviously intended for throwing, but still can be used for wood work (or weapons). That knife is basically a big bowie with a shallow sabre grind and a tapered tang without a handle. Using it as a kit knife and raising the grind, thinning the edge, etc. would easily turn into a non-throwing bowie profile. The only concern is edge damage if it is ground too thin and you miss the target, or if you like to do blade throws.

>
> The handles... currently they are sporting my own
> custom made Duct Tape handles spinning smiley sticking its tongue out Nothing else
> I've tried can stand up to the throwing abuse I
> put them through. I purchased some horse stall
> matting that I plan to experiment with. I have an
> idea for a horse stall mat + paracord combo
> handle. We'll see. Until then the Duct Tape will
> have to do. That's digital camo pattern Duct Tape
> btw. I'll probably go with saftey orange next
> because sometimes I lose the damn things.

That is the thing with the grips, they have to be extremely durable or they will break under impact hence the common leather wraps. It would be interesting to see the evolution of that knife if you ever decide to handle it and/or regrind it?

What distance do you throw from by the way, and is it rotation or non-rotation in the throw?
Re: Hudson Bay Camp - Gamma Brand
March 12, 2012 02:36AM
I typically throw between 20 and 40 feet and I almost exclusively throw by the handle. I've tried many methods but I can get the most accuracy by throwing from the handle. I throw very hard, almost like I'm trying to throw a baseball past a hitter.

I've have been designing, in my head, a spear like thrower/chopper. I remember you had shown me a link to a Jungle Honey. Interesting but not exactly what I have in mind.

Lately I've been considering small double bit axe designs.

I want the perfect blend of wood processing chopper and thrower... ideally smiling smiley
Re: Hudson Bay Camp - Gamma Brand
March 12, 2012 02:52AM
Chum Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> I want the perfect blend of wood processing
> chopper and thrower... ideally smiling smiley

Typically I doubt that traditional tools were not multi-use as it isn't like it was trivial and they were collected, even today you can see this with machetes where the same blade is tool and weapon. The only concern with throwing and using is what would happen when you miss. For example if I could hit the target repeatidly there would be no issue throwing the Hudson Bay and it would easily release from the handle. The problem is that if I miss and that edge flies into a rock on a bounce then it would get pretty badly impacted. If I was to throw recreationally every day it would rapidly wear the blade.

The main concern though would be hits that actually stuck but did not stick properly. If the blade went in, but was at an angle and so all that force of the throw suddenly went laterally basically trying to pry the tip out of the target. Unless the target is soft, like matting + foam this would be very likely to take the tip off. Now with something like the Battle Mistress, no issues as the tip is heavy enough to pry with anyway and the handle material (Micarta) is also extremely durable so it goes back to am I willing to wear the knife out in a year or so by edge impacts on missed throws (assuming I also keep it sharp enough to work as a cutting tool).

However if you have the knife purely when you throw it for hunting or as a weapon then this really isn't a concern because the volume of throwing isn't so high anyway. I think the ideal solution is to have two knives, one a dedicated throwing knife, a little over built and another which is almost identical except it has a thinner tip and edge to make it cut / penetrate easier. You then use one knife for your recreation, and you have the other to carry and use (and of course throw) as necessary.
Re: Hudson Bay Camp - Gamma Brand
March 12, 2012 07:44AM
And the paperstone handle would rapidly break if it's impacted repetedly.
Re: Hudson Bay Camp - Gamma Brand
March 12, 2012 03:46PM
Madnumforce Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> And the paperstone handle would rapidly break if
> it's impacted repetedly.

Yes, generally throwing handles tend to be soft, simple leather scales or similar. However I have taken a hammer to Micarta and G10, either of those would last an extremely long time as well. Even a decent wood scale would last quite some time especially if you used a slightly raised tang, which would have comfort issues though. Handles are generally considered to be disposable on throwing items though and are replaced fairly frequently on tomahawks and spears anyway.
Re: Hudson Bay Camp - Gamma Brand
March 12, 2012 04:40PM
I'm impressed with the density of the horse stall matting rubber. I can see why Keffeler puts it on his competition knives.

I was thinking that a handle specifically made to put the horse stall matting on might be the way to go. I don't think that stuff would have any problem taking impact, being rubber and all, and it should be very easy and cheap to replace. Additionally it should be excellent for absorbing shock.
Re: Hudson Bay Camp - Gamma Brand
March 12, 2012 06:42PM
Chum Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Additionally it should be excellent for absorbing
> shock.

The rubber grips have many excellent attributes, like you said they are fairly durable, and in general comfortable.

My main problem with them is that any texturing on them wears down very quick and they are also very easy to cut, tear or abrade. If you are willing to work with it yourself though, then it should not be a problem to shape/fit replacements. My brother actually owns a horse, I asked him for a piece of the matting awhile ago (unused) to play with.

Have you used the Cold Steel/Fallkniven grips, how does it compare to them?

By the way, an update on your machete and thai enep would be interesting to read if you have the time/inclination.
Re: Hudson Bay Camp - Gamma Brand
March 12, 2012 07:36PM
CliffStamp Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Chum Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
>
> > Additionally it should be excellent for
> absorbing
> > shock.
>
> The rubber grips have many excellent attributes,
> like you said they are fairly durable, and in
> general comfortable.
>
> My main problem with them is that any texturing on
> them wears down very quick and they are also very
> easy to cut, tear or abrade. If you are willing to
> work with it yourself though, then it should not
> be a problem to shape/fit replacements. My brother
> actually owns a horse, I asked him for a piece of
> the matting awhile ago (unused) to play with.
>
> Have you used the Cold Steel/Fallkniven grips, how
> does it compare to them?
>
> By the way, an update on your machete and thai
> enep would be interesting to read if you have the
> time/inclination.

Yeah I can see how the texturing on the horse matting could wear easily. I'm going to try a couple things to see if I can't get that to be less of an issue. One thing I'll try is to integrate paracord into the matting. Another I'm considering is taking a blowtorch to the outside of the matting to smooth it out. I would think it would still not be too slippery, and smoothing it out should cut down on wear... just guessing, haven't tried it yet.

As for the original grips on the Cold Steel Perfect Balance Bowies (if that is what you are referring to) they are just a pair of hard plastic slabs pinned onto the metal. They were actually quite comfortable and helpful. They couldn't stand up to repeated throwing however. Actually the slabs themselves held up fairly well, but the pins quickly bent. I took the slabs off after the first week of use.

I will definitely post about the Thai Machete "Unbreakable" when I get a chance. Been pretty busy lately. I'll also post about the E-nep, but will wait on that until after I put the horse mat handle on it.
Re: Hudson Bay Camp - Gamma Brand
March 13, 2012 12:05AM
Chum Wrote:

> ... and smoothing it
> out should cut down on wear... just guessing,
> haven't tried it yet.

The wear does slow down as the grip smooths on the Cold Steel and similar grips, you can really see it happen initially as the points wear right off. Interestingly enough, and rather appropriate, it follows the exact same curve as knives do for blunting the basic physics is the same.

A really dramatic difference that hardness (mainly) makes to wear can be seen if you compare the Cold Steel Kraton (rubber + Polystyrene) grips on their knives to the pure Polystyrene grips on the machetes. You can feel the machetes grips wear, but it is mainly to one times slower.

Most people vastly prefer the Kraton as it is more comfortable as it is softer, I really prefer the pure Polystryene as it is more longer lasting and it is only really sharp for the first few initial uses and if you can ignore that, it breaks in very fast, assuming of course you put a proper grind on it so they don't cut like bats.
Re: Hudson Bay Camp - Gamma Brand
March 14, 2012 04:00PM
I would like to do some more stuff with the knives, I just haven't had the time or energy as usual to document anything. So hopefully I can share some more stuff soon.
Re: Hudson Bay Camp - Gamma Brand
March 14, 2012 09:42PM
Old Spice Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I would like to do some more stuff with the
> knives, I just haven't had the time or energy as
> usual to document anything. So hopefully I can
> share some more stuff soon.


Hey, great to see you again Old Spice!
Re: Hudson Bay Camp - Gamma Brand
March 15, 2012 03:39AM
Chum Wrote:
------------------
> Hey, great to see you again Old Spice!


Its good to talk to all you guys again, was worked for a bit.
Re: Hudson Bay Camp - Gamma Brand
March 19, 2012 07:39PM
Old Spice Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>I just haven't had the time or energy as
> usual to document anything.

Just so everyone is clear, I write the way I write and do things the way I do because that is how I enjoy it, believe it or not. However there is no requirement, or even desire on my part to imply than anyone else needs to use a similar style. The only thing I want to see is honesty, the amount of detail and content should be in the form that you enjoy working to and writing about.

I ask my brother about knives all the time and he has basically three ratings and they are all one word; sucks, decent, pretty good. Getting any more information out of him can be at times about as productive as trying to walk a cat, but he is 100% honest, doesn't care who made it or what it is made out of (usually doesn't even know), and has no desire to be friends (or enemies) with the maker/manufacturer.
Re: Hudson Bay Camp - Gamma Brand
June 12, 2012 04:11PM
Finally a bit of action :





I had been using the billhooks lately so my technique is a bit off, you should be able to cut cleaner than I am doing here easily.
Re: Hudson Bay Camp - Gamma Brand
June 12, 2012 05:48PM
Thanks Cliff for the testing and footage.

At least, it seems I converted someone to billhooks! I myself, as soon as I go in the wild, take the italian billhook. It's just the perfect kind of tool IMO. The only problem is the lack of sheath, and the difficulty to make one both secure and fast.

I'm not very impressed with the performance of the knife on that video. Yes, it seems your hits were a bit off, and that maybe you were not hitting with the sweet spot, but I would have hoped better, as it's a very soft and clear wood. The Hatchet on the other hand is a real killer at the job. I think I'll regrind mine soon.

Even though I hoped a better penetration, at least, it works chopping. But I'm a bit worried about how the edge would behave batonning, especially through knots. Z50 is usually a relatively resilient steel, but the thin edge profile might make it vulnerable. Who knows, if the conditions meet, it may result in a failure.

For the moment, I'm in a kitchen knives period, and I grind them as thin as I can before HT. I had issues, as most of the time, the faster cooling on the edge (oil quench) made it wobble like crazy, and the blades were absolutely useless. But I've found out that the edge is so thin, and the blade itself is not thick (rarely over 2.5mm), that temperature drops extremely fast even in still air. From the glowing orange (~1050°C) the austenizing temperature to dark red (~650°C), on the edge, it barely takes some seconds, and once there, I quench it in oil. Only minor blade curving occurs. I have to make another bunch (the first one was experimental) to make sure it works everytime, but that way I might have a technique to quench very thin edge, and avoiding the risks to overtemper it later while grinding to thin it. Only some grinding to remove the scale and make the surface even for finishing. Next step is to make a try with the same thick stock I used for that Hudson Bay knife, to see if the edge cools fast enough in air. And get hardness files to check result grinning smiley.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/12/2012 05:49PM by Madnumforce.
Re: Hudson Bay Camp - Gamma Brand
June 12, 2012 05:59PM
Quote
Madnumforce
I'm not very impressed with the performance of the knife on that video. Yes, it seems your hits were a bit off, and that maybe you were not hitting with the sweet spot, but I would have hoped better, as it's a very soft and clear wood.

The hit count was high, it was 8-12 and should be 6-8, but again it is clear that my cuts are not close to optimal. Note as well that the last hits are very weak as the board will break easily past 1/2 cut and I don't want the blade going out of control, if the 2x3 was actually on another piece of wood where I could actually swing heavily I would suspect 3-6 hits should be able to be achieved on that wood.

To be completely honest I am also not 100% on the handle and don't want to risk a fracture this early in the game as I do not have that much experience with the knife and want to use it a lot more before putting it under stress that could damage it. Not saying it is a bad material, just have no experience with it is all.

This is why if you watch, at about the middle point you see me stop, chop, then stop, etc. . There was a very bad piece of wood which had a number of knots all jammed together and I could not cut them cleanly and the blade was twisting as they broke. I kept checking the edge to see if it turned as I did not want to keep chopping with the edge distorted as it would likely tear. However it handled it just fine, no issues.

It is a bit amusing you are not so happy with the performance considering the glut of video's which claim excellent chopping ability when it takes literally dozens of chops to beaver knaw through a piece of wood. But, hey, its good to have high standards.

Well yes, one of the problems with HT information in general is that it is commonly used on very thick pieces so the surface/air ratios are off completely for knives. Roman still argues that you can get retained austenite without oil, but I have not seen hard data unless of course you are talking mass volume of side/side knives where the knives in the middle are actually getting super heated air.

I don't think the edge would have a problem on knots from the dimensions, I am again a bit concerned about the handle and to be really honest while I tinker with blades with no effort, I don't have much inclination for rehandling. I will eventually get around to doing some splitting, but it is likely to be fall as most of the wood I have (see the cKc throwing video) has to season before I cut it up anyway.
Re: Hudson Bay Camp - Gamma Brand
June 12, 2012 06:19PM
If you're worried about Paperstone toughness, don't. It's not nearly as tough as Micarta, but it's damn resistant as handle scales, as the steel of the tang back it up, avoiding too much arching, where it's most vulnerable. When you fix scales on full tangs with pins, you worst ennemy is the wedging effect the pin has when you "mushroom" the head in a rivet shape. The technique is to only hit on the edge of the rivet, not on the flat top, so it expands the head diameter, but not the "shaft". That "shaft" expansion may have tremendous force, and that the cause of most scale splitting/cracking. So when I received Paperstone for the first time, I drilled three holes, put three pins in these holes, and brought it to the anvil, willfully hitting on the flat top. Any natural material (except very soft woods, maybe) would have split/cracked long before Paperstone did. And as I rivet pins with the right technique, there is almost no chance the shaft expanded, weakening the scales. And if ever it broke, I'd replace it with Micarta or G10.

But if you're talking about slipperiness, then yes, the glossy finish wasn't the right choice, especially for a chopper this weight and balance. But you could probably checker it gently with a coarse file, or with a dremel. Maybe even 36 sanding would do the trick. Next time I'll think about it BEFORE sending the knife.
Re: Hudson Bay Camp - Gamma Brand
June 12, 2012 06:42PM
Quote
Madnumforce
If you're worried about Paperstone toughness, don't.

I am at heart always an experimentalist, I know the theory, know what it is made of, but still there will be doubt until I see it in use.

Nice detail on the pins, I notice the construction is different, slightly domed. It is an interesting detail I know you have mentioned before. Here (NA) they are always flush, though I am not sure how they set them. There are a lot of cracks with wooden handles though which always lead to the pins which make me curious if it isn't internal expansion as you have noted.

No concerns about the grip, I can checker it fairly easily. I should actually get a checkering file and do it properly instead of using a saw like a hillbilly like I normally do.
Re: Hudson Bay Camp - Gamma Brand
June 16, 2012 04:07PM
Some more work, just getting some wood for a friend :



Re: Hudson Bay Camp - Gamma Brand
June 16, 2012 04:15PM
I know you are a function over form guy Cliff, but that Hudson Bay has both. It's nice to see such a massive chopper that's also a looker. It kinda gives me wood (pun intended ) smiling bouncing smiley
Re: Hudson Bay Camp - Gamma Brand
June 19, 2012 12:25AM
Hey Chum, this one is for you :



Re: Hudson Bay Camp - Gamma Brand
June 19, 2012 12:50AM
Awesome!!!

Oh and that first one really was brutal. I can just imagine Mad yelling at his computer screen... "Nooooooo! Why do you do this to my beautiful knife Cliff Stamp!?!?!"

But what a satisfying "THUNK" when it stuck. I have just never found the appeal of throwing small, lightweight, blades. It feels like throwing darts at a pub. But throwing a monster chopper like the Hudson Bay... you can hear deadliness in every "THUNK!" I love it!

Did your brother catch you doing this?