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Sharpmaker vs. Waterstones

Posted by me2 
Re: Sharpmaker vs. Waterstones
July 05, 2014 08:42AM
I bought my king stones in person at woodcraft , they sell shapton glass, nortons, kings, etc. I only have expierence with chef knives to go as far as online dealers. Tools from japan is supposed to be really good as well. I would just do a google search of what you are looking for and depending on your location I would go from there.

As far as permasoaking I keep my bester and a king 800 in water all the time. Some stones are ok to live in water, while others like the shaptons can or will crack if left in water or not allowed to dry properly. If you buy a shapton it comes with a list of donts for the stone that can cause it to crack.

I did buy a king 1k from amazon that was supposed to be the full sized brick, however when i recieved the stone it was the smaller stone, so I sent it back only to recieve a 1k/6k combo stone instead of the brick size 1k, so I said forget it and just kept the combo stone instead of the hassle of returning another stone.
Re: Sharpmaker vs. Waterstones
July 07, 2014 11:32AM
In regards to sellers, Stu from Tools from Japan stands out strongly, the only issue is that it is PayPal only, if you are ok wit that then his service is about the highest you can imagine.

I recently sent in an order for a large amount of stones, he sent me an email to confirm why I wanted them (it was an odd selection). I told him what I was intending to do, what I wanted, he then proceeded to describe what the stones did in detail and why he would recommend not to buy them, suggested a smaller list (much less cost) and threw in a stone for free which had some odd properties that could cause problems for some but likely would be interesting to experiment with.

I can't see how you would want more than that or even expect it to be frank.
Re: Sharpmaker vs. Waterstones
July 07, 2014 11:37AM
What is the odd one and why?

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Re: Sharpmaker vs. Waterstones
July 07, 2014 11:49AM
The stones? Because normally you don't buy close to a dozen stones of very similar class, but - experimentalist.
Re: Sharpmaker vs. Waterstones
July 07, 2014 12:27PM
No I know what stones you are getting. I wanted to know what the freebie was and how it poses problems for people.

www.theflatearthsociety.org

BIGFOOT FINDS YOU, YOU DON'T FIND BIGFOOT!



IT IS THE E-NEP THROWING BROTHERHOOD
Re: Sharpmaker vs. Waterstones
July 08, 2014 09:55AM
Quote
Mark a
I wanted to know what the freebie was and how it poses problems for people.

How about you order one you want with the order and when you get them if you can guess the that stone and the problems it causes then I'll pay for the stone you want.
Re: Sharpmaker vs. Waterstones
July 08, 2014 10:31AM
That is an interesting offer, I will have to pass. I can't afford to be wrong. If it is on the list I saw then I have a feeling I know which one and why, I will pm you with my thoughts.

www.theflatearthsociety.org

BIGFOOT FINDS YOU, YOU DON'T FIND BIGFOOT!



IT IS THE E-NEP THROWING BROTHERHOOD
Re: Sharpmaker vs. Waterstones
July 08, 2014 06:07PM
Hey cliff, what stones are yiu getting if any say coarse grit any 500 grit or less? Im abiut to buy a few myself in that grit range.
Re: Sharpmaker vs. Waterstones
July 08, 2014 06:30PM
I was going to buy basically all the interesting ones close to 100 grit and the ones from 400-600 grit. However Stu didn't think my choices were the best and is putting together a list of what would be useful/interesting. I will put up the list once it is finalized. I am also going to be getting some loose grits to play with, ultra coarse.

-Shapton 120, 180
-Sigma Power 120
-Taiga 300
-Ryu 300 (dual density)
-dual stone 300 (water and oil)
-Suehiro 320
-Chosera and Superstone 400

is where I started, but it has moved around a little.

I am going to stick with the dual stone both types (surface and water/oil) just because they are fairly interesting concepts and the others I will just go with what Stu thinks is useful. Essentially I am looking for something more coarse than the SPS-II 240 and between that and the Bester 700.
Re: Sharpmaker vs. Waterstones
July 08, 2014 09:11PM
I've been very tempted to get the dual grit one, but i have yet to actually use a true waterstsone extensively. I think that should be my first step. I am definately rooting for you to get that one though. Have you though about simply buy really coarse sanding belts and gluing them to a board? I believe i remember you saying you use worn belts for lapping and such. (i could be making this up)

I feel like we slightly derailed me2's thread...
Re: Sharpmaker vs. Waterstones
July 09, 2014 03:54AM
Cliff i am about to buy the glass 500 or possible a coarser stone (havent made my mind up yet), when I do though if your interested in trying the shapton pro 320 let me know, and i will donate it in the name of research. I really would like to have real world feedback by peope othwr than dealers on stones. Also I would like to see if ithers get the same results as me on the same stones.
Re: Sharpmaker vs. Waterstones
July 10, 2014 11:14AM
This is close to the final selection :

-superstone/chosera in 400
-shapton and sigma power in 120
-shapton moss 180
-dual density in 300
-dual stone (oil/water) 300
-sigma 3f carbon
-new cerax 400
-sigma 400

and various powders.

Some of these are likely not to be productive, but I am curious enough to see what happens.

I have lots of decent high grit stones; Spyderco ceramics, Henckels 3/8 k, SPS-II 3k, various 1 and 2 k stones, black arkansas, most SF diamond plate than is necessary (Atoma, and DMT), etc. .

Hence the focus on some decent coarse stones.
Re: Sharpmaker vs. Waterstones
July 11, 2014 03:32AM
I found a bester or beston (same thing i guess), in 220 grit so i purchased it. Very interested to see how it performs as the 1200 bester is capable of cutting new bevels itself.At thw price point its a steal IMO supposdly very hard like the other besters and doesnt dish like other coarse stones, I will be zero grinding a caly 3.5 and zdp-189 dragonfly.
Re: Sharpmaker vs. Waterstones
August 21, 2014 04:07PM
There are some pretty interesting stones here :



That King is so coarse you can see the individual grains. I will do a video on them the weekend as some of them have some very interesting properties such as :

-being a dual oil/water stone
-two different binders in the same stone (one hard side vs one soft side)
Re: Sharpmaker vs. Waterstones
August 21, 2014 04:56PM
Ohhhh, very nice. I'm excited!

_______________________________________________________________________________________________

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Re: Sharpmaker vs. Waterstones
August 22, 2014 07:09AM
The dual stone is rather interesting. What is the reasoning behind that?

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Re: Sharpmaker vs. Waterstones
August 22, 2014 08:02AM
Quote
Bugout Bill
The dual stone is rather interesting. What is the reasoning behind that?

It depends on which marketing copy you read :

-speed of a waterstone with the dish resistance of a oil stone
-the flexibility to work with oil or water
Re: Sharpmaker vs. Waterstones
February 12, 2015 01:49AM
Cliff, what happened to the Suehiro Dual-Stone (oil or water)?
Re: Sharpmaker vs. Waterstones
February 12, 2015 06:49AM
I still have it. I stopped doing stone evaluations for awhile as I ran into some problems with consistency of pressure. The pressure on the stone is critical in how they behave as I was getting inconsistent results. I have worked out most of the issues now and will be looking at it again.

What I was doing very carefully was looking at the range of pressure you can see as you move the blade across the stone. With a bit more careful inspection I found that at times I was only making minimal contact on the stone on both the stone area and blade contact area as I moved/rotated the blade. The pressure could easily be multiple times as high. I had thought initially that the largest influence (random) was the force applied, but that is pretty easy to constrain, the contact area not so much so.

I will be starting up the stone evaluations again shortly.
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