me2
Sharpmaker vs. Waterstones
November 22, 2013 08:24PM
I've been fooling around with my water stones a lot more lately, determined to equal the edges I get off my 204 (Sharpmaker). So far, no dice. However, the sharpness tests are somewhat subjective. More on that later. Measured on a scale, my best push cutting edge has come off the 4k waterstone. However, it's only on one knife. I can't duplicate the Tojira sharpness on any other knife using the 4k stone. However, I get edges consistently off the fine white 204 triangles that will do things the 4k stone edges won't, like whittle head hair. However, and here comes the subjective part, the 4k edges will consistently push cut receipt paper while the fine 204 edges won't. So far, it's a toss up. I can get either edge very sharp, but the 4k takes more effort and different technique. This thing is just too soft for any but the very lightest passes with edge leading. Carter's deburring and stropping works well on this stone, followed by just the lightest edge leading passes, 2 or 3 per side. The thing is, I'm so used to using the 204, I can't say which gives the best edge until I have years of practice with just the 4k stone. On a happier note, my Gerber Remix push cuts receipt paper with just the edge off a 1k stone, and very careful honing. Right now, the best I can say is the sharpness tests are subjective and somewhat inconsistent, but push cutting thread on a scale leaves the 4k ahead by a few grams (11 g vs 15 g).
Re: Sharpmaker vs. Waterstones
November 23, 2013 02:51AM
maybe it has to do with the grits not being standardized?
i have no idea where this pic came from but maybe it can help you out in solving at least a part of the problem



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Artificial intelligence is no match for natural stupidity.
zujostix (Youtube)
Re: Sharpmaker vs. Waterstones
November 23, 2013 07:43AM
Me2. I wonder how you would find your results if you had a ceramic waterstone like the sigma or shapton? I almost never use my king stones 800 and 1000 for the same reasons. When I need a high polish I jump from the 1200 DMT right to a 4k/8k Norton stone. (Not a great stone either. Loads fast. But stays fairly flat)
I am quite interested in trying some better waterstones for my tools but as of now I can't justify the cost.
me2
Re: Sharpmaker vs. Waterstones
December 03, 2013 03:04PM
I'd like to just switch to a full set of Shapton Glass stones from 120x to 16,000x, but that'll have to wait. I'm determined to learn to use this 4k stone just because I don't believe it would be out there this long if no one could use it. I just sharpened my Salt 1 in H1 steel, hardening it more in the process (cough). I have resorted to stropping on the stone, as I can't consistently get edge leading passes without digging into the stone. However, after shaping on the 220, 1000, and finishing on the 4k, it would tree top hair and whittle head hair. This required a couple of Carter style deburring passes in some cedar wood, but it did work finally. The 4k also works really well on my Tojiro, but I haven't had the nerve to try the Spyderco ceramics on it.
me2
Re: Sharpmaker vs. Waterstones
December 14, 2013 01:33PM
Just did a head to head sharpening on 2 RADA paring knives, one finished on the Spyderco fine, the other on the King 4k stone. Going by cutting tricks (split hair, whittle hair, treetop, etc.), the Spyderco gives a better/sharper edge than the 4k. I tried both edge leading and trailing for the 4k stone, with edge trailing giving a slightly better edge. The fine and 4k are very close, but the fine consistently gives me a sharper edge, though according to the grit chart above, the finish on the fine is coarser. Now I want to try an 8k stone and the UF Spyderco triangles. This was all done with the Sharpmaker in bench stone configuration.
Re: Sharpmaker vs. Waterstones
December 14, 2013 04:19PM
Chris, to finish on the waterstone for best results it should be :

-freshly lapped
-used very lightly with multiple passes
-used just wet enough to grind

I like waterstones, but in the final stage of sharpening, compared to using solid abrasives they are very difficult unless the steel is inherently trivial to sharpen.

The problem is that the surface is uneven and it changes as you grind, especially on the softer stones so the angle of the stone to the edge varies consistently and you need a very smooth averaging process to even out all the little changes. You also need very little mud as other wise it runs into the edge and rounds it off. Some of these things you can combat with edge trailing which is why Carter always does edge trailing on the final stone.
me2
Re: Sharpmaker vs. Waterstones
December 15, 2013 07:41AM
A good lapping is probably in order. I have been using it to shape and sharpen the Tojiro about every other week or so. It has some hollows and such that need to be removed, and a portion of the surface is glazed. Edge trailing did produce a slightly better edge, but multiple edge trailing strokes seems like it would leave a burr, as seen in Verhoeven on a 6k stone. The question I find myself asking lately is why finish with stones like this one if they are such a PITA. The ceramics are all but idiot proof for honing/sharpening. They don't need to be lapped, they will cut any steel, they stay flat, it's basically impossible to dig into one with a knife edge or point, etc. The only drawback I can find is they glaze quickly and need to be kept clean, but if only used for finish honing, where a couple dozen strokes are all that's needed, this isn't an issue. I try to keep in mind that my issues could also be just from being much more proficient with ceramics, having only been using the 4k stone off and on for a couple of years, with multi month breaks in between.
me2
Re: Sharpmaker vs. Waterstones
December 15, 2013 06:16PM
This afternoon I lapped and flattened my 220/1000/4000 grit stones. All are King except the 220, which is Norton. All are water stones. I resharpened the RADA paring knife guinea pig. I was able to get an edge that is just shy of the edge off the 204 (Sharpmaker) white stones. This may be the limit of what I can do off this stone, but I'm gonna try a few more times. I was able to use edge leading strokes without peeling off the surface of the 4k stone. I did finish with a few (5-6 pps) edge trailing strokes. This produced a slightly sharper edge, perhaps equal to the 204 fine stones. It will whittle beard hair, but will not whittle head hair. The 204 edge will whittle head hair on the first or second try. I tried multiple times with the 4k and it is just shy of doing it.

I'm slowly thinking that I'm going to just move away from water stones. Everyone else seems to love them, but they seem a lot of hassle for me. I can get an edge off a Norton Coarse/Fine India combo stone that will whittle beard hair, it 2 steps, with no particular care, sitting in the floor watching Sleepy Hollow. The wear rate is quite high, and if I'm not careful, when lapping them, they will get out of level/square/parallel and require much more lapping to restore, or the surfaces won't match on my sharpening blocks. Now, this makes a good case for learning to freehand sharpen without blocks/guides, but it's still a PITA that doesn't apply to other stones. I like trying new stuff, but this really seems a lot of work to me, with (so far) inferior or just equal results.
Re: Sharpmaker vs. Waterstones
December 15, 2013 06:31PM
Chris,

The main advantages of waterstones is ironically not the actual sharpness but properties such as :

-feel
-finish left (aesthetic look on the large flats on japanese knives)
-water vs oil as a lubricant
-no loading
-versatility in finish/speed (amount of water, amount of mud/slurry)
-rate of material removal at a given finish

However in terms of raw sharpness and efficiency of producing the same, there is no comparison to me comparing them to a true-flat plate either in diamonds or solid ceramic, and likely the Norton though it has been awhile since I used them.

As you have seen, there are just so many little things that waterstones do which make the sharpening involved. Now you can get very hard waterstones which reduce many of the issues, again as long as you lap them frequently.

This is why many people will lap the waterstones religiously before they use them with a diamond plate, this makes the sharpening a lot less complicated.

These issues seem to be the dirty little secret of waterstones.
me2
Re: Sharpmaker vs. Waterstones
December 15, 2013 06:40PM
That's it. I'm going to Home Depot tomorrow and getting one of the Norton economy stones. Some people just like an involved sharpening process. Some people like to try out new stuff. Some people just want a sharp edge. For the first 2, water stones seem to work great. For the latter, not so much.

The Shapton glass stones seem to be very hard. Are they better for finishing than the ceramics? The fellow at the wood working shop where I bought my 4k stone was very impressed by the edge off the 16,000 Shapton. His plane blades would shave his arm. eye rolling smiley
Re: Sharpmaker vs. Waterstones
December 16, 2013 09:27AM
I have not used the Shapton GlassStones but I have pieces of various Shapton's and they are very hard and work well as splash and go, but I would not pick them as being superior in terms of final sharpness. The main advantage of them is the same as their weakness, you can resurface them easily. I still have Titanium smeared into both medium and fine Spyderco stones from an experiment years ago. Nothing will take it out short of I assume a dissolving acid.

However if you just use the ceramics for finishing (micro-beveling) then it is hard to see any complaint about them. The only one is that if you do not deal with loading then you will get burnishing and edge fatigue vs grinding and the issues it produces. At this point they are not as much stones as they are acting as a smooth glass/steel rod which can still produce a very sharp edge but it tends to be side biased and fatigued.
me2
Re: Sharpmaker vs. Waterstones
December 16, 2013 01:11PM
For anyone who's ever used them, the ceramics are pretty clearly finishing stones. There's no way I would try the work I do on the Tojiro as far as shaping on the ceramics. I did once, and it worked, but I don't think it would work again. That's all I've been using them to do for years now.
me2
Re: Sharpmaker vs. Waterstones
January 07, 2014 10:28AM
As a fun experiment I resharpened the Tojiro using the 1K King and finishing on the 204 medium triangles. The clear winner for finishing are the ceramics in the 204.
Re: Sharpmaker vs. Waterstones
January 07, 2014 04:51PM
I have to say thanks for this thread me2, I've always felt like my the size of my sharpening shaft was inadequate due to my not owning or using waterstones, now I feel like I've dodged a bullet. Cliff deserves a lot of credit too, but I do appreciate the fact you've documented your efforts and conclusions like this as well.

Above you mention a wear rate that is high, requiring conscientious lapping to correct; was that referring to the waterstones or the course/fine India? I ask, because I didn't think my course fine India wore very much or at all previously (using lubricants), but tried sharpening dry yesterday with a new IB8 stone (after you mentioned that too in another thread) and noticed what felt like a bit more stone particles and mud than previously.

I have a feeling it was a combination of using a brand new stone and eliminating loose grit it shipped with and clumping steel swarf feeling like stone, but I was interested to see if sharpening dry like this (contrary to Norton's instructions) ironically increases wear rather than just loading the stone up in your experience.

I'm not paralysed by fear of my Norton India stone wearing, but if It's going to wear, I'd like it to make sure it wears in a respectable way. I'd wear that wear without weariness.
me2
Re: Sharpmaker vs. Waterstones
January 07, 2014 06:41PM
I used my Coarse India for nearly 10 years without lapping it. When I finally did lap it, the dish was surprisingly shallow. The dust you see is likely a combination of loose grit on the stone and steel dust. Now, to be sure it wasn't flat, and I rounded one corner for use on recurve blades like the 710 and Vapor (which I've since sworn off BTW). If there were a way to lap it efficiently, I would have, but I don't know of one (suggestions welcome). I never had to lap the fine side, as I only used it for finishing/microbevels.

If you must have a flat stone for plane irons or chisels and such, water stones may work better, since they are much easier to flatten. However, for knives, especially for roughing/rebeveling, I never found it to be an issue with the coarse, and I used it for a lot of heavy rebeveling. The trick is the microbevel must have enough of an increase to overcome any slop you have in the roughing/shaping operation. I found an increase of about 3 degrees per side to work for the way I sharpen. I go from a coarse stone (220 Norton now) to a medium stone (1000 King) at either 17 or 12 degrees per side (dps), to the respective 204 (Sharpmaker) slots of 20 or 15 dps.

FWIW, I learned to sharpen on natural Arkansas stones, a soft and hard, followed by a ceramic rod. All these were basically impossible to gouge with a knife blade, and for keeping friends and my own knives sharp, they suffered no undue dishing. When my brother dropped the soft stone and broke it, the dish was 1/32" or so (from memory). Cliff may not like that, but it didn't bother me for knives. The slop I had freehanding at the time was much greater than that. My story might be completely different if I used chisels or plane blades a lot. If you just need to keep up your knives and those of friends/acquaintances, and don't do rebeveling a lot, I wouldn't think your Coarse India would wear appreciably in several years. The occasional, initial rebevel wouldn't hurt too much either, I don't think. However, if you do it multiple times on each knife, over the course of dozens of knives, you'll need a way to flatten it eventually.

It feels nice to know I'm not the only one who doesn't think too highly of waterstones for knives. It seems one needs to be able to repair or rebevel an edge without having to flatten the stone in the middle of the process. We here are rather demanding, but I've felt the Norton Coarse/Fine India combo was easier to use with better results than the King 220/1000 for a long time, but figured I must be doing something wrong.

For those interested, you may try www.congresstools.com. They make machinist's stones and have several grades in grits from 60 to 1200. They look perfect for Cliff's scrubbing style of free hand sharpening and are pretty cheap. I may try them before the Norton India stones, thought Congress Tools sells them as well, and may be owned by Norton for all I know.
Re: Sharpmaker vs. Waterstones
January 08, 2014 04:50PM
From what I can see, Congress Tools are a separate company to the Saint Gobain umbrella of abrasives companies. I'd like to buy some of the Moldmaster and Flexcut stones for my Chinese edge pro knock off; apparently the former are a durable and fast cutting silicon carbide based stone, while the Flex Cut stone (600 grit) leaves a very very fine finish, and they are 5 or 6 dollars each (1"x6"x0.25"winking smiley.

I thought it would be loose particles; my other stone didn't wear much like that, but it had been about 6 or 7 years since it was new. I remember lapping it rarely with a cheap silicon carbide stone and it did a very good job of keeping it flat and fresh faced. Not that I ever noticed it out of flat, but I did notice some uneven wear when lapping, it was gone within 20 strokes any way, and the surface was clean and sharp again, and the SiC wold move towards flat too. I think in the time I owned it and lapping it briefly every six months, I lost maybe 2mm off the course, and less off the fine side.
me2
Re: Sharpmaker vs. Waterstones
June 13, 2014 09:40PM
I tried playing with the 4k stone again tonight. I am finally getting a light enough touch to use the 4k for edge in final honing. It has to be basically dry or just barely damp. I specifically went 220 Norton/1k King/4k King and tried to sneak up on the edge with the 4k after distressing and removing the visible flat with the 1k. Seems pretty involved, and it still doesn't equal the edge I can get with the same or even less effort off the fine Sharpmaker (204) rods/flats.

I know which edge finishing/honing techniques work best for me, but I also am beginning to think one should be able to finish with a variety of techniques/procedures to allow use of whatever honing tools may be available.
Re: Sharpmaker vs. Waterstones
June 14, 2014 04:39AM
You're not alone me2. I continue to try to use my Shapton 5K and my King 6K when I sharpen, which is not super frequent, and while I've gotten somewhat improved results from going extremely light and keeping it very wet, and also from edge trailing strokes, the Spyderco stones still give better results.

_______________________________________________________________________________________________

Always in search of a good choppa'



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/14/2014 04:45AM by C Amber.
Re: Sharpmaker vs. Waterstones
June 16, 2014 07:10AM
There is a claim that the waterstones will give better edge retention than the ceramics because the ceramics will load so easily they will burnish the edge vs abrading it. Any evidence of this in use?
Re: Sharpmaker vs. Waterstones
June 16, 2014 07:37AM
Hmm, this is tough to say. It's been rare that I haven't used the ceramics after trying out the water stones, just because I like that little extra bit of sharpness (especially since I have feelings of inadequacy at not getting true push cuts, lol).

However, in the small instances I can compare, I would say no. Both last way longer than I ever expected an edge could when stropping and as boxed edges were my baseline. The edges I get off the ceramics are several orders of magnitude better in edge retention than I was getting off of a strop (say for chopping, a 10-20 minute chopping session would no longer shave, but off of the ceramics, there is little to no change in the edge after that amount of work given not hitting inclusions).

I think it would take someone pushing edges through as much work as you do to notice a difference, if there is one. I say that because the work I do is very light, and infrequent, so with most edges I sharpen, I end up resharpening long before they need it, just because I don't like that there is a small spot reflecting light, I want them back at the tree-topping stage, or, in the case of the kitchen knives, my wife cuts on a ceramic plate.

I only use the ceramics for final sharpening though, no shaping. So once I have it shaving sharp off a King 1K or a Norton Economy say I will go through the deburring process on 1-3 of the Spyderco stones, looking at most at 9 strokes per side on each stone, so only 6-27 strokes per side. In that sense the stones are rarely very loaded.

_______________________________________________________________________________________________

Always in search of a good choppa'
Re: Sharpmaker vs. Waterstones
July 03, 2014 09:30AM
I have been comparing waterstones, (king, shapton, norton, naniwa and a bester 1200. The grits i have in each stone are king, 800, 1000, 4000, 6,000. Shapton pro 320 and shapton glass HR 1k, 4k. Norton 1k&4k. Naniwa 2k green brick of joy and superstone 10,000 grit. I know I know i went overboard on waterstones but i wanted a little variety in my life. I also have dmt dia sharps in 220, 325, 600, 1200, and 8,000 and a spyderco 302 UF ( one side heavily lapped and smoothed by a 325 grit diamond plate.

I prefer diamonds, finished with the UF ceramic, I can not tell a difference in edge retention from the waterstones, or the ceramics. I do clean the ceramic with Bar Keepers friend, but loading up has never been an issue for me during a sharpening session.

I can add more about individual stones, but i dont want to derail.the thread unless someone is interested.
Re: Sharpmaker vs. Waterstones
July 03, 2014 09:46AM
Quote
Ranger

I can add more about individual stones, but i dont want to derail.the thread unless someone is interested.

Yes.
Re: Sharpmaker vs. Waterstones
July 03, 2014 10:07AM
I'd be particularly interested in your experience with the Green Brick of Joy. I have one, and have not had good luck with it...well it's worked well to increase the edge polish but not the sharpness.

_______________________________________________________________________________________________

Always in search of a good choppa'
Re: Sharpmaker vs. Waterstones
July 03, 2014 10:28AM
Quote
C Amber
I have one, and have not had good luck with it...well it's worked well to increase the edge polish but not the sharpness.

That is because only the Samurai can really utilize those stones, Chris has the same problem.

It is not commonly known but the Irish were extensively settled by Japan and thus all Irish people can trace their lineage back to feudal Japan. It is why I use waterstones so much. If you hang out with Old Spice and do a lot of weeaboo cosplay maybe it would help. I also have some Japanese water I will send to you, that could solve the problem as well.

--

After using the Bester 700 for awhile I am curious now how coarse I can go and still get decent edges without damaging them too much in the initial shaping and still be efficient. The Suehiro Dual-Stone looks interesting, I just ordered it and a few others from TFJ (Stu).
Re: Sharpmaker vs. Waterstones
July 04, 2014 11:26AM
Ok here we go, note I am on a phone (computer on the fritz) so apologies for typos or auto correct.

Shapton pro 320- it is a fast cutter, dishes slowly, its said to be splash n go.however i find a little soak maybe 3-4 minutes, make the stone perform better. Feedback is good, and this stone does produce a slurry. However at $60.00 I think there may be better coarse stones out there for the money, however this being the coarsest waterstone I have owned or used I cannot compare it to others.This stone really shines at taking out factory scratch patterns, or scratches left from an XC diamond.

Shapton Glass 1k HR- the glass stones are my newest stones so this will be my intial thoughts. True splash and go stone. Cuts faster than the king 800 or 1k and does not load period. Feedback is really lacking so I do not recommend it to anyone who is new to freehand sharpening.It is probably the fastest 1k stone i have used but the lack of feedback really is something to consider. The stone is very hard, and i suspect will last a long time. The edge from this stone can easily pop arm hairs and slice newsprint.

Shapton glass 4k HR- this stone cuts fast at the 4k level, again no loading, true splash and go, but again like the 1k feedback is lacking . I have not used this stone enough to know how refined I can get the edge, however i stopped after slicing toilet tissue.

King 800 and 1000 - I really love king stones, they were the first i bought and i still use them. For the money i think $30 a piece or cheaper for the brick sizes value wise they are top of the list. Yes they are the slowest stones I have, but for the beginner sharpener the slowness +the value are winners in my book. One can get a very nice edge off the 800 grit. Feedback is great, but water consumption is high, I would suggest permasoaking these stones if it is an option for you.These stones do dish quicker than others, so that is something to keep in mind, I generally just set a diasharp plate on top of the stone and if i can see light i lap the stone.

King 4k&6k- Super soft stones, I have tried these stones both splash and go, and soaking them and honestly I cannot tell a difference so i just use them splash n go style. One has to be careful when using edge leading strokes with these stones as you can easily cut your stone or wreck your edge with too much pressure. They load super fast, but for finishing i find this not to be a bad thing at times if this is the last stone I am using as the more the stone loads the more refinement you can get. Value again is excellent I cannot remeber the price of either stone but i do not believe I paid more than 40 dollars a piece.

Naniwa 2k Green brick of joy- I have a love hate relationship with this stone, and it all depends on what knife i am using. IMO this stone excels with carbon steels like 1095 or stainless steels like AUS8. With those steels the stone produces a nice mud and gives excellent refinement. The stone gives decent feedback during use and again depending on the steel it can load super fast. I use this stone splash n go style as well as i havent seen any benefit of soaking it. Of all the stones this one requires lapping the most. You can get a really nice edge off this stone depending on the steel, mud, and wheither or not its loaded or not. For polishing let the stone load, then start, but for sharpening the stone needs to be freshly lapped, and if it is not producing a slurry, either lap it a few times or I have found using a simple cheap kitchen knife works up a nice mud then i will switch to whatever knife i was going to work on. Im on the fence about this stone, as for some steels its great but others not so much, so I dont know if the value is there or not.

Bester 1200- I recieved my stone with hairline fractures all over it as well as dimples throughout the entire surface. After calling CKTG and showing the owner pics, he told me to keep the stone and gave me store credit for the money for the stone. Anyhow this thing is a sponge i mean it needs water every 30 seconds or less. After lapping all the dimples out of it, I hated the stone for water consumption alone. The stone doesnt really form a slurry on its on so a few passes with a diamond is the key to this stone, it cuts fast, wears slow, gives excellent feedback.
But you haft to water the thing constantly. IMO the bester 1200 is as fast, if not faster than a shapton, with better feedback, and if used with a slurry gives a superior edge than the 1k shapton....

To be continued....



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/04/2014 11:46AM by Ranger.
me2
Re: Sharpmaker vs. Waterstones
July 04, 2014 01:53PM
Can you tell me what you mean by feedback?
Re: Sharpmaker vs. Waterstones
July 04, 2014 01:57PM
Appreciate the information.

Quote
Ranger
Shapton Glass 1k HR- the glass stones are my newest stones so this will be my intial thoughts. True splash and go stone. Cuts faster than the king 800 or 1k and does not load period. Feedback is really lacking ...

What exactly do you mean by feedback? I have seen it being used to describe a few different things.

Quote

Naniwa 2k Green brick of joy- I have a love hate relationship with this stone, and it all depends on what knife i am using. IMO this stone excels with carbon steels like 1095 or stainless steels like AUS8.

Where does it have problems and what are they?


Quote

Bester 1200- I recieved my stone with hairline fractures all over it as well as dimples throughout the entire surface. After calling CKTG and showing the owner pics, he told me to keep the stone and gave me store credit for the money for the stone. Anyhow this thing is a sponge i mean it needs water every 30 seconds or less. After lapping all the dimples out of it, I hated the stone for water consumption alone. The stone doesnt really form a slurry on its on so a few passes with a diamond is the key to this stone, it cuts fast, wears slow, gives excellent feedback.
But you haft to water the thing constantly. IMO the bester 1200 is as fast, if not faster than a shapton, with better feedback, and if used with a slurry gives a superior edge than the 1k shapton....

This stone is one of the strongest recommended stones on the market, interesting really as the others in the line up are not that much. Have you used other Besters? They way you describe it "it cuts fast, wears slow, gives excellent feedback. But you haft to water the thing constantly" is very similar to how I have described the Bester 700 I have, aside from the feedback comment as I am not sure exactly what you mean there.
Re: Sharpmaker vs. Waterstones
July 04, 2014 02:55PM
By feedback i mean you how the edge feels on the stone. Some stones have a different feeling if you go above or below angle and others even the sound of the knife against the stone changes depending if you are at the right angle or if you go abive or below angle.When I say s stone has low feedback i mean it is difficult to tell if your at your desired angle based on the feel.or even sound of the stone. Does that make sense knowing what im talking about and and actually putting it into words is 2 different things.
Re: Sharpmaker vs. Waterstones
July 04, 2014 03:11PM
The green brick has given me problems with zdp-189, especially and other harder steels, now with steels that are "easier" to sharpen like Aus8 or 1095 or even superblue the green brick does an ok job.On say zdp-189 for instance its like the stone isnt even abrading the steel. The best results i have had with the green brick came from sharpening a $7.00 wal mart kitchen knife.

I have not used other besters but i would like to try the 500 head to head against the shapton pro 320.IMO shapton glass stones are overrated. If you dont mind the super high water consumption I would say that the besters or beston stones are hard to beat. as long as the stone I recieved was just a fluke. The stone is going to crack into pieces at any time now. That and the bumps in the surface which had to be lapped out.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/04/2014 03:25PM by Ranger.
Re: Sharpmaker vs. Waterstones
July 04, 2014 08:08PM
Ranger- welcome to the forum. Is there a seller for water stones that you think is a stand out? Do you keep you stones soaked all the time, or do you let the dry?
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