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The "Why did you think that was ok" Sharpening Video Collection

Posted by me2 
me2
Re: The "Why did you think that was ok" Sharpening Video Collection
July 01, 2014 05:25AM
Wait, did you say that or him? As is usual, I couldn't get through the whole thing.
Re: The "Why did you think that was ok" Sharpening Video Collection
July 01, 2014 08:30AM
What are you referring to?
Re: The "Why did you think that was ok" Sharpening Video Collection
July 01, 2014 09:00AM
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me2
So how is that prevented in carbon steel knives?

It isn't but axes tend to be used less frequently, if you are using them at home then you have the means to easily dry/oil them. Axe heads are often made out of very simple steels which will rust very fast so taking a head up to a extremely fine polish and leaving it even slightly damp makes little sense. But again, maybe in the very next part he carefully dried and oiled the axe. However packing around that many stones which themselves require significant maintenance and lots of water is a bit of stretch. If the axe is not damaged then it has to be sharpened very rarely, if it is damaged then those stones will not deal with it effectively.

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fervens
It also looks like he is using a lot of pressure by how much flexing the table is doing. But you can't see the ground so...

Stones cut with very little force, if you are using beyond what is needed to cut you are just wasting abrasive and damaging the steel. There is no need to use very much force at all when you are finishing and it definitely isn't going to help with getting a clean apex. This is also contradictory to many of the things he says where he will talk about letting the tool do the work, using minimal effort to be safe etc. (all of which make sense) and then using that much force on the stones.

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And personally, i'll use a circular motion when convexion cause it allows me to relaxe my wrists while at the same time keeping a controlled amount of slop.

The Bruks axes he typically uses, and most axes have a pronounced curvature, you will not hit it with slop you have to actually rotate the axe head to match the curvature. It is easier for most with a small puck stone used on the axe held stationary as you can see where you are grinding. It can be done on the stone directly, but it isn't as trivial as just using small circles and it can be done with any honing motion.

Again here my point is what he is saying doesn't translate to what has to be done, that that it is impossible to do it as he is saying if you know what is going on and do more than what is said. If you didn't know how to make a convex bevel on that axe it would not result from just following what was said.
me2
Re: The "Why did you think that was ok" Sharpening Video Collection
July 01, 2014 09:31AM
I can't help but think it should be obvious that you should dry off a carbon steel axe head. It's so obvious that I didn't even think someone would hone with water stones and forget to dry the bladeThen again there are a lot of things that are obvious that get missed.
Re: The "Why did you think that was ok" Sharpening Video Collection
August 13, 2014 05:07PM
Video :





This makes it look like sharpening a ceramic knife is trivial, however the procedure described is unlikely to produce results unless the angle the blade is ground is less than 15 dps or similar so the guessed ~20 dps bevel is just a micro-bevel. As well a 600 grit DMT finish is very coarse for ceramics.
Re: The "Why did you think that was ok" Sharpening Video Collection
August 13, 2014 07:01PM
I have never tried to sharpen a ceramic knife (don't have one) but I have noticed that the harder materials seem to cut easier and faster on the diamond plates than softer steels. I have sharpened some carbide router bits on the xf stone that I have and based on material removed/time it seems to cut faster.

www.theflatearthsociety.org

BIGFOOT FINDS YOU, YOU DON'T FIND BIGFOOT!



IT IS THE E-NEP THROWING BROTHERHOOD
Re: The "Why did you think that was ok" Sharpening Video Collection
August 14, 2014 09:25AM
Mark: Have you ever sharpened low carbide steel on diamonds? I think it would be kind of doubtful that they would be cut slower than high carbide material.

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Bill22252 on YouTube. "See you space cowboy"

Resident Emerson Fanboi

Folding knives are fun, fixed blades are important.
Re: The "Why did you think that was ok" Sharpening Video Collection
August 14, 2014 11:08AM
Yeah I do it all the time. Maybe it is because the low carbide steels feel soft on the stone in comparison. I can't really explain it. It is something I have noticed but not had the time/inclination to study further.

www.theflatearthsociety.org

BIGFOOT FINDS YOU, YOU DON'T FIND BIGFOOT!



IT IS THE E-NEP THROWING BROTHERHOOD
Re: The "Why did you think that was ok" Sharpening Video Collection
August 14, 2014 11:22AM
It could simply be loading.
Re: The "Why did you think that was ok" Sharpening Video Collection
August 14, 2014 12:28PM
That is definitely a possibility.

www.theflatearthsociety.org

BIGFOOT FINDS YOU, YOU DON'T FIND BIGFOOT!



IT IS THE E-NEP THROWING BROTHERHOOD
Re: The "Why did you think that was ok" Sharpening Video Collection
August 29, 2014 06:06PM
I would not say this is a fail :





Except read the description and then look at the demonstration of sharpness in the video :

"There's a whole lot of bad to worse advice about knife sharpening on the internet these days - most of it being espoused by guys who work in cubicles, and are warriors in their own minds. That's sad, it really is. Once the factory edge is gone off these guys' knives, they'll never be sharp enough to do more than spread softened butter again. Such dull knives are dangerous - not because they're sharp, but because you have to push so hard against the blade to cut even a clothesline that slips are inevitable. I like my knives to part a deer's hide with a mere touch. And I get that. Here's how."

He also notes that he gets a fine shaving sharp edge. I don't think that is achieved and while a lot of what he says is true, some of it makes no sense and a lot of what he does is specific to only certain types of knives.
Re: The "Why did you think that was ok" Sharpening Video Collection
August 29, 2014 08:10PM
Oh this one is just a beauty:

[youtu.be]

He seems to have changed the title as it used tovbe something along the lines of "best way guaranteed"

He uses old worn out belt on top of power sharpening, grinds way too excessively? Reworks the entire bevel to a hollow , which I don't really see being superior to a flat for chisel, and of course uses our favorite way to deburr...runs it on wood a couple times.


In the comments I'm interested that someone claims they can make them a chisel which will "never need to be sharpened" which I'm interested in seeing how he can make such claims and what type of obsidian he makes then out of.

If you go through the old comments however you see my favorite way to reply to criticism however. He just goes "hahahahaha" to half of them.

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Coffee and Blood
Re: The "Why did you think that was ok" Sharpening Video Collection
August 30, 2014 04:01AM
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Shurdi3

He uses old worn out belt on top of power sharpening, grinds way too excessively? Reworks the entire bevel to a hollow , which I don't really see being superior to a flat for chisel, and of course uses our favorite way to deburr...runs it on wood a couple times.

Hollow ground faces on chisels make it easier to work the front in subsequent sharpenings on stones so often the first thing a lot of people is grind a hollow on a face with a grinder. The amusing thing about that video is that he seems to almost be proud of the fact he over heats the steel, but his tools, his money.

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In the comments I'm interested that someone claims they can make them a chisel which will "never need to be sharpened"

Its a cold chisel, they are not sharp as you would describe a knife to be sharp. He likely just quenches the edge or similar.
DK
Re: The "Why did you think that was ok" Sharpening Video Collection
September 07, 2014 09:05PM
i love how he haphazardly and continuously slaps the knife back and forth on the steel(me wondering how he still has two hands) and then says he's not stupid enough to run his hand down the knife to check the edge. it made me giggle, and yes i realize i am being ignorant but, sometimes you just have to laugh. i may put up a how to of my own on my channel for steeling, maybe not though as i'd recieve a lot of negative criticism on "how i was doing it wrong" even though i learned to do it by being trained as being a part of the meat cutters union and i would go weeks without having to resharpen my knife while cutting many many tons of beef up.

"knives save lives" on youtube
all i want for christmas is more arm hair -DK-
Re: The "Why did you think that was ok" Sharpening Video Collection
September 11, 2014 08:47AM
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DK
...maybe not though as i'd recieve a lot of negative criticism on "how i was doing it wrong"

Look at a fish filleting video, there always guys who rant about the fish being wasted no matter how/why the fish is being processed. There are lots of people who hate their lives and only get enjoyment by finding the fault in others.

--

Steeling is one of those things which has as much legend and myth about it as there is fact. How can something so simple be so confused? Yet steeling is advocated as a necessary :

-first step only
-last step only (how can be it both?)
-to strength the edge
-to polish the edge
-to remove all of the microscopic burrs
-for the ultimate in sharpening
-it doesn't sharpen, it just hones (uh - what?)
-it doesn't remove metal
-it does remove metal, a lot if not careful

You can find the exact opposite things said, often because people are talking about very different things like : diamond rod, fine file, smooth rod, etc. .

If you are getting into sharpening it has to be one of the most confusing things you can try to research.
Re: The "Why did you think that was ok" Sharpening Video Collection
September 11, 2014 03:55PM
Di...didn't people say that it's used to remove any burr after sharpening (last step)? Then they said that it just alligns the burr, also I've heard people call it useless and you should throw away your kitchen steels, etc.

To be honest I've heard similar about stropping, which really confused me when I first started, and made me believe that it's the be all end all of sharpening.

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Coffee and Blood
Re: The "Why did you think that was ok" Sharpening Video Collection
September 20, 2014 03:17PM
This isn't a method but standard question :





This video was mentioned in another post. I asked a question about how he opens the blade which is by pressing directly against the edge. His perspective is that doesn't indicate lack of sharpness.
Re: The "Why did you think that was ok" Sharpening Video Collection
September 20, 2014 04:02PM
Cliff: I have heard similar things from some big slipjoint people. These sorts usually argue that sharpness isn't particularly important in a pocket knife due to the fact that their thin geometry will make up for it.

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Bill22252 on YouTube. "See you space cowboy"

Resident Emerson Fanboi

Folding knives are fun, fixed blades are important.
Re: The "Why did you think that was ok" Sharpening Video Collection
September 20, 2014 04:09PM
Quote
Bugout Bill

These sorts usually argue that sharpness isn't particularly important in a pocket knife due to the fact that their thin geometry will make up for it.

It isn't important at all if you don't want the knife to cut well.

The same type of argument was made in response to some video's by Kyley and Mike (and Jeremy and others) on how geometry influences cutting ability and certain knives simply didn't cut well. A few people did video's showing they could indeed cut things with knives with 0.035"/20 dps type bevels.

It is simply a matter of perspective, most collectors of that nature don't use knives and what they carry shows it.
Re: The "Why did you think that was ok" Sharpening Video Collection
September 20, 2014 11:04PM
Uhm... I think that depends. I mean I sharpen mainly for more slicing aggression, and care little for push cutting, so almost all of my blades I can push with my thumb with quite a bit of force without them cutting in my skin, while they will still slice newsprint easily and push cut on a bit of an angle. If I move it in an direction it tends to well... not be fun.



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Coffee and Blood



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/20/2014 11:35PM by Shurdi3.
Re: The "Why did you think that was ok" Sharpening Video Collection
September 21, 2014 02:54AM
It isn't necessary for a blade with a coarse finish to have low push cutting ability in general. Take a look at Colin's recent video's with low grit water stones. A sharp blade will have high ability in both, though often optimized for one over the other. The same way a blade with a very high polish doesn't mean it should slip on something if you try to draw cut.
Re: The "Why did you think that was ok" Sharpening Video Collection
September 21, 2014 03:58AM
I didn't say it was a coarse finish. It's off the opinel natural stone, which, for me at least, is a relatively high finish. I just prefer high slicing aggression in general.

I will be trying out some new stuff once I get my first big boy stones though

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Coffee and Blood
Re: The "Why did you think that was ok" Sharpening Video Collection
October 10, 2014 06:19AM
Cliff... a year or so ago when I told you about the 0.50 lev sharpening knife, you joked that it is a dirty stick.

[www.youtube.com]

I think this guy believed it

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Coffee and Blood
Re: The "Why did you think that was ok" Sharpening Video Collection
October 10, 2014 10:41AM
Interestingly, I have on ocasion used my 1200 grit diamond stone to polish/ round my nails, just for the heck or it. As you'd imagine, it works quite well.
Re: The "Why did you think that was ok" Sharpening Video Collection
October 30, 2014 09:09AM
Note a video, however :

-[www.knifeforums.com]

This thread, though short has a very interesting collection of some of the oddest statements and perspectives on sharpening convex knives, convex bevel property in general and also the irrational almost kryptonite fear that Mike Stewart has against measuring. How do you know the proper angle if it isn't measured. It seems to be that they just look at it and can tell without measuring it if it is ok -and- this is such a secret that they can't tell anyone else and you have to pay to send it back to them for them to reset it. Compare this to Joe's perspective on measurement as noted here :

-[www.cliffstamp.com]

The idea at a basic level that a little stropping on an ultra fine compound radically alters the apex angle is also a bit farcical as the most it is going to do is increase it. What most likely happened is the constant heavy force stropping just left the edge in a highly strained / damaged state which readily started to take damage.
Re: The "Why did you think that was ok" Sharpening Video Collection
October 30, 2014 12:10PM
Reminds me of one of my favorite Thoreau quotes (http://classiclit.about.com/library/bl-etexts/hdthoreau/bl-hdtho-wald-16.htm):

"There have been many stories told about the bottom, or rather no bottom, of [Walden Pond], which certainly had no foundation for themselves. It is remarkable how long men will believe in the bottomlessness of a pond without taking the trouble to sound it... Many have believed that Walden reached quite through to the other side of the globe.... But I can assure my readers that Walden has a reasonably tight bottom at a not unreasonable, though at an unusual,depth. I fathomed it easily with a cod-line and a stone weighing about a pound and a half, and could tell accurately when the stone left the bottom, by having to pull so much harder before the water got underneath to help me. The greatest depth was exactly one hundred and two feet; to which may be added the five feet which it has risen since, making one hundred and seven."

It would be so simple to measure the edge thickness with a pair of calipers to know if the guy really thinned the edge (which of course he didn't--I wish it was that easy to thin out an edge!).
Re: The "Why did you think that was ok" Sharpening Video Collection
October 31, 2014 11:52AM
This is painful to watch. I think he was trying to copy Murray Carter, but he calls him by a different first name. He wonders why he doesn't get the tip sharp, some people give him advice in the comments. Check out the convexing method! But he did get the first knife to cut paper!
[www.youtube.com]
Re: The "Why did you think that was ok" Sharpening Video Collection
October 31, 2014 12:16PM
I get nervous and worry when someone starts to sharpen a knife, and says it's brand new, I don't want to mess up the edge. Not exactly something you say when you have confidance in what you are doing.
[www.youtube.com]
cKc
Re: The "Why did you think that was ok" Sharpening Video Collection
November 04, 2014 04:45AM
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CliffStamp
Note a video, however :

-[www.knifeforums.com]

This thread, though short has a very interesting collection of some of the oddest statements and perspectives on sharpening convex knives, convex bevel property in general and also the irrational almost kryptonite fear that Mike Stewart has against measuring. How do you know the proper angle if it isn't measured.
.

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ms 2014

Convex Edges are thicker than most people are use to. Trust me - it is still razor sharp and thinning it will make it feel sharper but not actually be sharper. it will be weaker and less stable.

Every Time I touch up a blade I push ever so slightly into the strop to get the right height of the spine for that knife.

99% of the problems people have sharpening a Convex are that they press too hard and do not have the spine high enough.

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ms 2005

I haven't had a chance to speak to Buzz on this and the only difference that I do is that I raise the spine about 13 degrees and do not press so hard.


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ms 2010
08-29-10 08:11.14 - Post#2202611

In response to roscoe1972

River Rock.

Convex Edges are easier to do than scandis.

Scandis are usually all Dented up and chipped - Convexes just need to be realigned.

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It's not Cliff, its Dr Stamp
#kebabstickcut, it's a thing - make it happen
Re: The "Why did you think that was ok" Sharpening Video Collection
November 07, 2014 01:40PM
This is the constant type of scythe sharpening I see on YT :





I can't see how this is sensible, or even optimal for an edge to cut grasses or for anything for that matter. It is :

-rapid slapping of an edge with a stone
-insensible methods of burr removal when / if that is mentioned
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