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The "Why did you think that was ok" Sharpening Video Collection

Posted by me2 
Re: The "Why did you think that was ok" Sharpening Video Collection
March 17, 2015 11:48AM
Sungold sharpener Was recently told I should get one of these if I wanted to start a sharpening service..... Just had to share this. I actually feel insulted by this a bit.
Re: The "Why did you think that was ok" Sharpening Video Collection
March 17, 2015 12:08PM
Did that guy take that head out of the freezer?

www.theflatearthsociety.org

BIGFOOT FINDS YOU, YOU DON'T FIND BIGFOOT!



IT IS THE E-NEP THROWING BROTHERHOOD
Re: The "Why did you think that was ok" Sharpening Video Collection
March 17, 2015 12:17PM
Don't think so, then again he has the worst demo voice for a product, thus I will not rewatch it to make sure. Seems about as confident in his product as a guy hand feeding cobra's.
Re: The "Why did you think that was ok" Sharpening Video Collection
March 17, 2015 09:47PM
Not sure if that machine is a necessity, that is a little much, was the guy who told you that selling them or something?
Looks like it works at least, and in the video seems to run pretty quiet. I checked out the price, and was stunned. Makes the Wicked Edge or the Tormek seem outright thrifty!

___________________________________________________________________________________________
"Gotta love living in 2019 baby, (63rc too soft on a production knife)" -- Shawn Houston
"But can it cut a bamboo skewer?" -- Kyley Harris
"I am still discussing issues of steels and performance at this stage." -- Cliff Stamp
"Cause geometry cuts, .....steel determines the level and the duration" -- Roman Landes
"But in general, I'm all about high performance, Ergos, safety. That's why I've been accused of 'designing in the dark' " -- Sal Glesser
WordPress YouTube Facebook Patreon
Re: The "Why did you think that was ok" Sharpening Video Collection
March 17, 2015 11:43PM
He as far as I know does not sell them, but is a charter member of the Georgia knife makers guild. So he isn't completely clueless I hope.
I actually stopped responding to the thread(which I started) to avoid a pointless argument. I felt like he was trolling for an argument.
Also the other videos by the company show a passable edge, but no true sharpness demos that I have seen really. Not saying they don't do it, but I haven't seen it yet.

Edit to add:
Just looked up the price, holy crap...
For the price I could buy every stone and tool I wanted and still have money left over.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/17/2015 11:56PM by TerriLiGunn.
Re: The "Why did you think that was ok" Sharpening Video Collection
March 19, 2015 10:20AM
This is a curious video :

[www.youtube.com]

The technique is solid, but he makes the same basic mistake that a lot of beginners make. He goes right to the final polish of newsprint and then discovers that the edge is ragged and catches on the newsprint and notes that you have to start over and repeat the process.

The knife should be able to slice the newsprint off of the coarse stone, if it doesn't then the apex isn't formed and it is pointless to continue to ultra-fine polishing compounds.
Re: The "Why did you think that was ok" Sharpening Video Collection
March 24, 2015 03:28PM
This is odd :

[www.youtube.com]

-200 grit belt
-butchers steel
-v-groove steel
-then a series of diamond stones

Constantly repeating he doesn't want a paper cutting / shaving edge, but a chopin' edge. He never clarifies exactly what he is doing to not get that high sharpness and what he does is pretty much the same thing as how he sharpens kitchen knives.
Re: The "Why did you think that was ok" Sharpening Video Collection
March 24, 2015 03:45PM
I watched this one from him - [www.youtube.com]

I have one encounter with 12 inch sabatier knife and not a very good video about it - [www.youtube.com] it is suitable for the topic - good example how not to sharpen:
- too much movement of the stones/plates
- no stable platform

and

in mine video I see one big problem - these 8+ inch french knives can be very thick behind the edge / 4+ mm at the spine/ and to cut well the secondary bevel needs to be pretty wide that the angle to be low enough - mine was not...

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Life is GOOD!

[www.youtube.com]
Re: The "Why did you think that was ok" Sharpening Video Collection
March 26, 2015 07:03PM
It looks like this guy is asking for advice, but check out what he gets in the comments:
What am I doing wrong:

___________________________________________________________________________________________
"Gotta love living in 2019 baby, (63rc too soft on a production knife)" -- Shawn Houston
"But can it cut a bamboo skewer?" -- Kyley Harris
"I am still discussing issues of steels and performance at this stage." -- Cliff Stamp
"Cause geometry cuts, .....steel determines the level and the duration" -- Roman Landes
"But in general, I'm all about high performance, Ergos, safety. That's why I've been accused of 'designing in the dark' " -- Sal Glesser
WordPress YouTube Facebook Patreon
Re: The "Why did you think that was ok" Sharpening Video Collection
March 26, 2015 07:23PM
What he is doing wrong is trying to use a waterstone to produce a high sharpness. It is possible, but it is among the hardest ways to approach it. Just ask Chris and Colin about their experiences compared to Nortons and similar stones.
Re: The "Why did you think that was ok" Sharpening Video Collection
March 26, 2015 08:01PM
Yeah, they are tough to learn on. It is probably the last thing I would recommend for someone just starting out.
Re: The "Why did you think that was ok" Sharpening Video Collection
March 26, 2015 08:14PM
To be frank, I would never advocate them for setting an apex, great for shaping but for actually making the blade sharp, I don't see why you would want to use them aside from the challenge.
Re: The "Why did you think that was ok" Sharpening Video Collection
March 27, 2015 12:18AM
Here are two articles were this woodworker went back to oilstones:
Oilstones 1

Oilstones 2

___________________________________________________________________________________________
"Gotta love living in 2019 baby, (63rc too soft on a production knife)" -- Shawn Houston
"But can it cut a bamboo skewer?" -- Kyley Harris
"I am still discussing issues of steels and performance at this stage." -- Cliff Stamp
"Cause geometry cuts, .....steel determines the level and the duration" -- Roman Landes
"But in general, I'm all about high performance, Ergos, safety. That's why I've been accused of 'designing in the dark' " -- Sal Glesser
WordPress YouTube Facebook Patreon
Re: The "Why did you think that was ok" Sharpening Video Collection
March 27, 2015 02:44AM
Agreed with Cliff...life is easier setting the final sharpness with the Spyderco stones.

_______________________________________________________________________________________________

Always in search of a good choppa'
Re: The "Why did you think that was ok" Sharpening Video Collection
April 17, 2015 04:49PM
How to sharpen a knife

Lucky, this is a fairly short video, but still painful to watch.
me2
Re: The "Why did you think that was ok" Sharpening Video Collection
April 18, 2015 05:43PM
How so?
Re: The "Why did you think that was ok" Sharpening Video Collection
April 18, 2015 09:32PM
I could be wrong but it looks like he pours mineral oil on a Japanese waterstone.
Re: The "Why did you think that was ok" Sharpening Video Collection
April 18, 2015 10:36PM
I am not sure that is a waterstone. I checked and it is referred to as a waterstone in some places but in others it isn't.

Note that there is nothing stopping you from using oil on waterstones. The old style ones just have such a weak bond since they break down so rapidly the effect of friction on the abrasive really isn't an issue. The modern ones like the Sigma Power 120 and others can be so porous that oil would drain right through them.

I keep meaning to experiment with oil on some of the stronger bond modern waterstones.
Re: The "Why did you think that was ok" Sharpening Video Collection
April 18, 2015 11:07PM
I couldn't really tell, there was a discussion of it in the YouTube comments.
I inadvertently got a small part of my Steelex 1k/6k stone surface coated in oil, about half the size of a quarter, and it changed the look and feel of the surface, and in use it instantly loads and it is hard to get clean in that spot, not what I would call a good thing to happen to the stone.
Re: The "Why did you think that was ok" Sharpening Video Collection
April 18, 2015 11:26PM
That is interesting, it might be that the oil is preventing the stone from forming a slurry. I have some small pieces of waterstones, I think I'll do some experimenting .
Re: The "Why did you think that was ok" Sharpening Video Collection
April 19, 2015 12:27AM
Yeah, it's weird. I was going to see if someone knew how to fix it. I tried running it under hot water and even scrubbing it. Dishsoap helped get it clean from loading, but it didn't fix the problem. Also, I didn't put the oil directly one the stone, I was drying after using it and there was some newspaper I was using to wrap a vintage oilstone in when I was restoring it's surface, and I mistakenly put the waterstone near the newspaper, and the oily newspaper got bumped into the waterstone, and I don't know how long it had been that way before I discovered it.
Eli
Re: The "Why did you think that was ok" Sharpening Video Collection
April 19, 2015 02:30AM
Quote
CliffStamp
Note that there is nothing stopping you from using oil on waterstones.

If you are willing to accept that the stone is ruined if you don't like the oil after all.

My success in cleaning oil from porous stones is marginal, sub 10 percent. The main success is a Carborundum razor hone. I suspect that most things that I used on inert stones (lye, bicycle chain degreasers, paint thinner, gasoline, acetone, boiling water) will do harm to the binders of softer waterstones. I have read but not tried that one can put western Aluminum/Silicon Carbide stones in a fire and burn them out. Has anybody with this?
Re: The "Why did you think that was ok" Sharpening Video Collection
April 19, 2015 06:11AM
Eli-
I have heard of people boiling oilstones to degrease them.

The spot on my waterstone that got the oil on it us very small, it isn't a big deal, an it is right on the edge of the stone, so it really doesn't get useds, although somtimes I do like to use the ends of the stone. I figured it would just wear away from lapping and use, this was my first time using the stone since it got oil on in. Also, it was the 6k side that got the oil, don't know if that makes a difference.
Re: The "Why did you think that was ok" Sharpening Video Collection
April 19, 2015 08:40AM
A little work with oil on a King 1000 waterstone (resin bond) :



The stone was initially dry as it had not been used in awhile. I coated it with oil and it soaked in, much slower than water but still working its way into the stone. I did this a few times and then started to sharpen. However the surface dried quickly as the oil kept moving into the stone. However it would cut very similar to using it with water, generate that fine slurry that King stones are known for, it just felt thicker due to the high viscosity of the oil.



I soaked the stone in water to fill it up and then used more oil on top, this was more productive as the oil just floated there.



Going back to water, the water beads on the surface due to the oil, however it works similar to with water, forms a thinner slurry :



This is a mix of oil and water as they mingle in the slurry generated. The reason it is so black is that the chisel is full of rust. This just wipes off :



--

Again if this seems like a crazy idea, oil is used as a lubricant on resin bonded abrasives in industry. Water is never argued to be a better choice from a grinding perspective, it is just lower cost. Will I continue to use oil on this stone? Likely not, the stone breaks down so fast it doesn't have the excessive wear / loading which happens if you use a Norton India/Crystolon with water.

However some people are pretty anti-water. A couple of people who work in outside shops have noted that using water is just more uncomfortable and the risk of freezing can damage stones. If they had a King and they liked how it worked as an abrasive then rather than abandoning it for a Norton then they could just use oil.

In reality there is no such thing really as an oil or waterstone, they are just called this because they are traditionally used that way. It is like for example you call a knife a fillet knife because it is commonly used to fillet fish. But just look at the difference between a Japanese and Western fillet knife. Each one of them is likely to look at the other one as not a real fillet knife but they work perfectly fine for filleting for the other.

To clarify, it might be the case that some of the bonds used on some stones would be damaged by oil. It isn't obvious to me why this would be the case as oil tends to be fairly inert. However some of the harsh cleaners contain acids and bases which could attack the bonding material and weaken or even dissolve it. This could lead to a rapid weakening of the stone and compromise the grinding ability.

It might be an interesting option that if you had a stone which was too strong, a common complaint about some Shaptons for example, to use an harsh cleaner, give it a slightly spray and then rinse it well. It should be possible to weaken some types of bonds. However many of the waterstones are now using vitrified bones just like the Norton India stones. On those stones the bond is very resistant to chemical attack as it is similar in nature fo the abrasive itself.
Re: The "Why did you think that was ok" Sharpening Video Collection
April 19, 2015 09:28AM
Where is the rest of that chisel? Is the handle broken right off?

www.theflatearthsociety.org

BIGFOOT FINDS YOU, YOU DON'T FIND BIGFOOT!



IT IS THE E-NEP THROWING BROTHERHOOD
Re: The "Why did you think that was ok" Sharpening Video Collection
April 19, 2015 09:43AM
Interesting, I wonder if what happened with mine is because it soaked into that part if the stone for probably a few days. The part of the stone that was contaminated with oil still cuts, it just loads fast, and that part of the stone goes completely black, and it doesn't just rinse of, I have to scrub it off with a sponge to get it clean.

On another note, it seems with my selection of sharpening videos that I come across and decide to post in the Why did you think that was ok/What is actually ok pinned posts, I am having trouble with black and white thinking, ie take it or leave it, so when I look back at some of the videos I posted, if only one thing in the video is something I disagree with as far as sharpening, even though the rest of the video is fine, I end up labeling it as a 'what not to do' video. On the otherhand, sometimes if I watch a video that is a sharpening method that works, but critical information is left out, and I have doubts about the video, I post it in the 'what's ok' video. Looking back at this, it's interesting, because it is typical behavior of someone who has the health conditions I do, but I don't recognize that pattern until I look back at my activities. When I go back and watch a video I posted, sometimes I get a completely different take in it then when I first watched it, especially if I had watched multiple videos from the same channel. Weird.
Re: The "Why did you think that was ok" Sharpening Video Collection
April 19, 2015 09:51AM
Quote
Mark a
Is the handle broken right off?

The handle was cut off and the tang peened over for a striking surface, the owner wanted it for tight cuts.

Quote
jasonstone20

The part of the stone that was contaminated with oil still cuts, it just loads fast, and that part of the stone goes completely black, and it doesn't just rinse of, I have to scrub it off with a sponge to get it clean.

What stone is it and how does it cut with water, does it readily form a slurry?
Re: The "Why did you think that was ok" Sharpening Video Collection
April 19, 2015 10:24AM
The stone is the Steelex Woodstock 1k/6k combination waterstone. Only a small part at the edge of the stone (the 6k side) got oil on it, about the size of half a $0.25 coin, so I can't tell if it does anything for a slurry, I just can tell that it cuts, loads, and is hard to clean.
Re: The "Why did you think that was ok" Sharpening Video Collection
April 19, 2015 10:50AM
Sorry, I should have been more clear, how does the rest of it act with water in terms of forming a slurry.
Re: The "Why did you think that was ok" Sharpening Video Collection
April 19, 2015 11:21AM
Cliff:
It is like most of the 3k-8k Japanese style watetstones I have used, they polish rather quickly and the stone doesn't really release a lot of grit, it is mostly just black streaks from where the metal was removed, and that mixed with water. If I want a slurry, I usually have to work one up with another stone first. Just for futher clarification, the stones I have used that I am referring to are the higher grit sides of these combination stones: Suehiro 1k/3k, Steelex Woodstock 1k/6k, and both sides if the Norton 4k/8k. Also I want to be clear, these stones all behave different, ie feel, feedback, polish, ect. Just they do seem to be similar when it comes to slurries. Then again, I also don't do large numbers of passes when using these stones, at a maximum 50 passes.
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