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Things that are actually ok - sharpening videos

Posted by CliffStamp 
Things that are actually ok - sharpening videos
June 04, 2014 05:10PM
Video :

[www.youtube.com]

Jon has a lot of decent videos on sharpening. This is an example of one :

-clear explanation of how a micro-bevel at a high angle can add durability but remove slicing (cutting) ability

This is a very nice example (and discussion) of how you have to sharpen knives to best suit how they are used and that what can work for one and increase performance can actually decrease performance in another, even similar, knife.
Re: Things that are actually ok - sharpening videos
June 04, 2014 05:37PM
That was a nice video. Good presentation qualities as well, between the demo and the clear dialogue.

_______________________________________________________________________________________________

Always in search of a good choppa'
Re: Things that are actually ok - sharpening videos
June 30, 2014 03:50PM
Mors :





Being practical, instead of buying stones Mors suggests you just make them with some backing, tape and sandpaper. Given the low cost of sandpaper and how much work you can do on clean wood before you have to sharpen a knife, those stones would last a long time. Plus he also noted you can just move the coarse one to fine duty as it gets worn, so it is likely you are mainly going to be making new coarse ones when need be. Given they are just thin metal (or similar) with tape + paper they are very light and you can pack/carry them anywhere.

However the part he says at the end about using a knife on leather so fast that it gets hot enough to reharden the steel is nonsensical. I wish people would just stick to what they know as people like Mors know a lot, but there you are obviously not getting the steel ~1450 F on the strop so it isn't being hardened, it also isn't even going to get hot enough to do much of anything. He mentions that it gets so hot it can be uncomfortable on the skin, but that is ~118F or so, that is far to low to do anything to steel.
Re: Things that are actually ok - sharpening videos
July 06, 2014 04:50AM
friction forging with a hand strop!
Re: Things that are actually ok - sharpening videos
July 06, 2014 08:30AM
This may be a bit curious :





But notes he says to :

-calm down, go slow
-don't use much pressure

That is likely a semi-soft blade (compared to a lot of what is discussed here), and since he is using a butchers steel he is likely ending up with a semi-filed edge and with minimal work, ~5 seconds he can keep that blade cutting for a long time and would likely have it professionally reground on occasion.
Re: Things that are actually ok - sharpening videos
July 10, 2014 04:21PM
Not exactly sharpening, but it could be used as such :



Re: Things that are actually ok - sharpening videos
July 14, 2014 06:31AM
A rod end bearing would make that jig a lot nicer to use I think, but would significantly eat into the primary advantages of it, being very low cost, and ease of finding the materials and putting it together.

I've thought about make a knife or two; if or when I do, making a jig like this would be definitely on my list. I've also thought about a jig like this for holding bench stones, like a giant edge-pro. Benefit would be limited, and the same old jig-related cons would apply, so I'll just go on dreaming of it whenever I begin to lose patience on getting a decent bevel on a troublesome knife.
Re: Things that are actually ok - sharpening videos
July 14, 2014 07:41AM
I made jig like this that held my dmt bench stones. I used it to reprofile my Esee laser strike. It worked well enough but, it was cumbersome bordering on awkward/slightly danderous. I could probably have made it better I just didn't think I would use it often enough to justify the time.

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Re: Things that are actually ok - sharpening videos
August 10, 2014 03:52AM
This is an interesting video :





It is impossible to argue it doesn't work as it does obviously, but so much of what is said not only isn't correct it is nonsensical such as the edge is actually rehardened on the strop, that in order to shave your arm you have to use a strop and similar.

I find it interesting that someone who has developed things like the Super Shelter has taken such a passive approach to sharpening.
Re: Things that are actually ok - sharpening videos
August 10, 2014 11:48AM
Wow, a strop works by burning off the burr? You need 300 strokes on the strop? Like you said, he gets a useable edge for sure (for his purpose) but surprising his rationale for his actions.
Re: Things that are actually ok - sharpening videos
August 20, 2014 04:07AM
There are a lot of harsh complaints about carbide sharpeners based on the fact that if use them with a lot of force then you can damage the blade. This is true however (of a lot of abrasives not just carbide) but you don't have to use them in that manner, they can be used more like a smooth steel and in that case they work well if you use a LOT of passes (as in hundreds).





Here is a practical review of one of the most villainized sharpeners, the dreaded carbide pull-through :





In short, yes a few semi-hard pulls does not make the blade razor sharp, in fact when it is demo'ed it barely is able to slice photocopy paper but as the OP notes :

-this is for his cheap knives which have rough use
-he uses it when he is out/around and doesn't have the time/inclination for more precise sharpening

and he also makes a point about emergency situations (such as extreme cold) where this very simple mechanism is still functional where trying to do something like use a more precise rod system isn't practical for him.
DK
Re: Things that are actually ok - sharpening videos
August 21, 2014 08:42AM
though there was some useful insight to be found and in no way do i mean to disrespect the RCAF but, there is also eight kinds of crazy in this video and i can't unwatch it.

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all i want for christmas is more arm hair -DK-




Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/21/2014 08:56AM by DK.
Re: Things that are actually ok - sharpening videos
August 30, 2014 06:57PM
There is not a lot of information in this video, but it does violate some of the common arguments people make about traditional japanese knife sharpening. I just like the very natural/ease way the guy sharpens and handles the knife :




Re: Things that are actually ok - sharpening videos
October 31, 2014 12:21PM
I keep seeing these videos pop up on YouTube, and people ask about them. They look like they have good info in them to me, Japanese knifes get comlicated with their specific task orientated blades and.grinds.

[www.youtube.com]
RFL
Re: Things that are actually ok - sharpening videos
November 02, 2014 03:16PM
Traditional burr based sharpening:







Not at all horrible technique, but used as an introduction to sharpening it stresses the necessity of high force in both edge grinding and in stropping off a burr. This may lead to some confusion as to what is more important; abrasives or high force/pressure along the edge.

As a plus, the presenter gives a clear definition of exactly what honing is near the end of the video (for Cliff's appreciation).
Re: Things that are actually ok - sharpening videos
November 05, 2014 10:22AM
I have severe resistance to this :





In particular the etch after the finish polish, however it is hard to argue against Carter's end results with sharpening.
Re: Things that are actually ok - sharpening videos
November 09, 2014 08:05AM
This is an interesting video :

[www.youtube.com]

The main problem I have with it is a comment made in the middle where Nick notes that he can't understand why people can take so long to sharpen a blade. It appears to me that he is sharpening a blade Fisk style where the edge is already formed and he is just setting the apex with a micro-bevel and calling that sharpening. Ethan Becker is another person who makes the same kind of argument/demo where he notes sharpening is just a matter of a few passes on a India stone (again, just a straight copy from Fisk) and you are done. Unless the person watching it knows this is a micro-bevel and/or the edge is already perfectly formed this is going to be a source of frustration.
Re: Things that are actually ok - sharpening videos
November 09, 2014 10:36AM
I've read on bladeforums, in a thread on applying the final edge, that he sharpens on the machine almost to zero and then finishes on stone, so yeah, basically what you are describing.

Here is the thread:
[www.bladeforums.com]

He doesn't exactly state that's what he does, but I think it's pretty clear he "shapes"...gets the apex all set to how he wants it and then applies a micro bevel

_______________________________________________________________________________________________

Always in search of a good choppa'
Re: Things that are actually ok - sharpening videos
November 09, 2014 02:54PM
Thanks, I asked on the video. I would be surprised even with jigging if you could restore the actual edge bevel that way. That is the problem I have with all of those videos, they are really going to confuse the issue to someone who doesn't realize the edge is already shaped and all that is being done is apply the apex bevel.
Re: Things that are actually ok - sharpening videos
November 09, 2014 04:02PM
Wheeler gets double cool points for wearing a pink Newfie Roolz t-shirt. Of course, given that he bench presses like 400 pounds, I suppose he can sport it. I've owned a couple of Nick's blades in 01, he sharpens to a high level, no doubt. It does sound like his bench stones are just to apply the final microbevel.
Re: Things that are actually ok - sharpening videos
November 09, 2014 05:41PM
I would love to own one of his large no frills choppers, but they are a bit outside my price range.

_______________________________________________________________________________________________

Always in search of a good choppa'
Re: Things that are actually ok - sharpening videos
November 09, 2014 08:38PM
Quote
CliffStamp
There are a lot of harsh complaints about carbide sharpeners based on the fact that if use them with a lot of force then you can damage the blade. This is true however (of a lot of abrasives not just carbide) but you don't have to use them in that manner, they can be used more like a smooth steel and in that case they work well if you use a LOT of passes (as in hundreds).





Here is a practical review of one of the most villainized sharpeners, the dreaded carbide pull-through :





In short, yes a few semi-hard pulls does not make the blade razor sharp, in fact when it is demo'ed it barely is able to slice photocopy paper but as the OP notes :

-this is for his cheap knives which have rough use
-he uses it when he is out/around and doesn't have the time/inclination for more precise sharpening

and he also makes a point about emergency situations (such as extreme cold) where this very simple mechanism is still functional where trying to do something like use a more precise rod system isn't practical for him.



What I used to due when I was learning to sharpen (well I'm still learning), before I learned proper burr removal, I'd sharpen to a burr and the lightly remove it with the
v-carbides sharpener. I still have a few blades around I sharpened like that, that I put away in the safe, and the edge is acceptable.
Re: Things that are actually ok - sharpening videos
November 10, 2014 02:13PM
This is a very simple, yet elegant sanding block :



Re: Things that are actually ok - sharpening videos
November 11, 2014 05:37AM
This would be great for me since I favor smaller stones. I find with the 8x2" stones, I feel like I have to much stone to use, especialy when the gremlins start coming out when sharpening, I shorten my strokes on the stone or do the Murray Carter/Ken Schwartz thing and hang out on the edges, stone turned sideways or not. I had been thinking, lately, that with sandpaper sharpening, a simple clipboard might also be a useful thing.
Re: Things that are actually ok - sharpening videos
November 13, 2014 12:32PM
damn you beat me to it. I was going to post that video along with another one once i worked out some minor issues. I was going to combine that one with this one.

video: [www.youtube.com]

I was also going to change form the clamps and rubber bands to something similar to what mark(?) did you you, cliff, with the wedges. The metal clamps can really tear up the sand paper and you lose the taughtness.
Re: Things that are actually ok - sharpening videos
November 17, 2014 08:12PM
Ghetto WE :



Re: Things that are actually ok - sharpening videos
November 18, 2014 12:05PM
This guy seems reluctant to do this video. Strange vibe. Also, he has the largest ceramics sharpening rod I have ever seen.
[www.youtube.com]
Re: Things that are actually ok - sharpening videos
November 19, 2014 09:59PM
This :





Is one of those things that really cause people on forums to freak out. Again it is a matter of perspective, what that guy gets paid to sharpen a knife the same people would never consider doing it for either. They could make as little as ten cents for sharpening a knife. The other thing to consider is that those knives get used harshly. These are not the kinds of knives where people freak out as being "abused" very easily. In fact the concept of abusing a knife is about as sensible as abusing a spoon.

An interesting thing to look at if you watch a few of those videos is that the blades are often very thin, so thin they often flex easily as they ride across the. The edge angles are as well very low, at times the edge is almost fully blended into the primary. The demand for cutting ability is very high. In general the only times you see heavy edge bevels is on cleavers and such which do a lot of bone work, common in fish markets.
Re: Things that are actually ok - sharpening videos
November 19, 2014 10:05PM
Most of the world still has knives sharpened that way. Hell, industrial kitchens too.

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Re: Things that are actually ok - sharpening videos
November 20, 2014 04:33AM
Where did you get video of me grinding that little Barteaux machete? Lol

As an aside, I feel that what most non knife people actually appreciate about a knife being sharpened is just the improved cutting efficiency, not the improved sharpness. Seems like most people wait until a knife is severely blunted, impacted, etc..like a butter knife, so actually putting an edge bevel that just approaches an apex is an improvement in cutting efficiency.

_______________________________________________________________________________________________

Always in search of a good choppa'



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/20/2014 04:35AM by C Amber.
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