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Things that are actually ok - sharpening videos

Posted by CliffStamp 
Re: Things that are actually ok - sharpening videos
November 20, 2014 04:58AM
I agree completely Camber, or my experience does anyway. Sharpening in the shop where I work is viewed as a black art, and other employees imply I'm a serial killer for knowing how, and that the time I spend on the stone is time dodging real work.

This is despite the facts that despite cutting 30 kilograms of salads a day they've stopped complaining about their wrists, they work faster with less waste, and the salads have been staying fresher for longer.

Because of their jibes and complaints, I've just been essentially scraping off the damage, reaching a crude apex and then just handing them the knife with a plea for them to not steel the edge with 15kg+ pressure. They still climb over each other for these knives though, (and end up throwing them into shopping trolleys, scraping and cutting on steel benches). Going further than that just earns more complaints, and they cannot notice a difference in edge retention because they scrape the edge on the board and abuse the edges anyway, as long as I don't leave a burr it's all good in their hood.
Re: Things that are actually ok - sharpening videos
November 20, 2014 07:14AM
Quote
SecondCrack

... I've just been essentially scraping off the damage, reaching a crude apex ...

What do you use and what is the typical sharpening time?
Re: Things that are actually ok - sharpening videos
November 20, 2014 12:50PM
$12 SiC stone, or Norton SiC stone (about $25 here). The Norton is harder than the other stone, and the fine side is finer and nicer to use (it breaks down at the right speed, regardless of the hardness on the knife, and tends to leave a finer finish) but the difference is not that great, and I think the cheaper stone cuts faster.

Sharpening time ranges from 2-3 mins for a knife that I've sharpened before without gross damage, to 15 minutes to cut a new bevel on a knife that has been damaged or steeled (the edge refuses to form until 3-5 sharpen/hard distress cycles). Probably about 5 minutes on average. The knives are 3 dollar Kiwi brand chef pattern stainless, very thin, with a fairly variable heat treatment.
Re: Things that are actually ok - sharpening videos
November 20, 2014 01:12PM
I can see why the 15 minute sharpening would tend to have some people make a few comments regardless of the outcomes. People often have this odd "grass is greener" viewpoint even if the reason their grass is dead is because they hydroseeded road gravel.
Re: Things that are actually ok - sharpening videos
November 20, 2014 04:04PM
It's not the 15 minute knives that elicit comments though, If a knife doesn't sharpen up well I quickly move on and leave them for time I'm off the clock (they would be thrown away if I wasn't personally interested in diagnosing and addressing the problems.) About a third of the time the knife is fine, I just made a bad stroke or two in my haste, but the other two thirds have a junk edge.

The owners appreciate the time I spend on the stone, even though they are told by others it takes me half an hour per knife. If I wasn't interested in the process and looking for practise, I wouldn't bother at all. The people I work with make the job significantly less satisfying than it would otherwise be, but I came from the big-leagues of idiots and bullies so it's still good.

The geometry on these knives is what I think let's me get away with what I do with the apex, they are thin stock. Perhaps over time as the cut-crew gets more used to knives that aren't fully blunted they will get more picky, but for now the cost benefit doesn't favour me going any further. At home I go further with the edge out of pride, but the knives don't last for similar reasons.

For a while I used to frown on pull-through sharpeners, but people and knives I've encountered are really starting to show me where they have their place. Even those devices need to be used properly though!
Re: Things that are actually ok - sharpening videos
November 28, 2014 04:42PM
Wooden edge pro which uses full size stones :



Re: Things that are actually ok - sharpening videos
November 28, 2014 05:02PM
That is neat and it would be so easy to make. I really like it. If you used DMT plates that would negate the need to reset the angles with every stone change. Maybe I will make one.

www.theflatearthsociety.org

BIGFOOT FINDS YOU, YOU DON'T FIND BIGFOOT!



IT IS THE E-NEP THROWING BROTHERHOOD
Re: Things that are actually ok - sharpening videos
November 29, 2014 08:11PM
Your video brought to mind this one I saw, to create bevels on a knife:
Bevel filing jig
Re: Things that are actually ok - sharpening videos
November 29, 2014 08:43PM
I always skipped past this video because it was in Russian or Ukrainian. I am glad I watched at least half of it, makes me think just getting the cheap Chinese knock off worth the $25, even though the stones are garbage and I live in Portland, OR, and would love to support Ben Dale, I just don't have the money. I already have the Gatco Edgemate, which since I got the Extra Coarse(AO) and Coarse(Diamond) along with the Ultra-Fine(Ceramic) it has the cutting speed at edge refinement to compare to my freehand work. I have had the Edgemate for so long I don't even notice it's shortcomings anymore, and it is way more versatile with the new stones.
Re: Things that are actually ok - sharpening videos
November 30, 2014 07:23PM
Instinctive Knife Sharpening

its not a big deal, no pictures, no gizmos, just coffee cups

an grizzled boy scout sharpens an opinel on bottom of coffee mug, and a cheap carborundum stone bought in 1950 for $1
dull up the knife by cutting into scotch bright
dry erase marker to color the edge
try take thin slice by cutting into stone, or coffee mug
strop on leather belt to remove burr
knife goes from won't slice paper at all, to will slice paper (and snag)
demonstrated a few times , once on coffee mug, once on stone, then little circles method on stone
zen tip, don't think about the angle, your mind and eye will find the angle ... sharp, don't think about it
no reflecting the light tip
maybe the stropping was too hard but its only a few strokes on a belt from his pants
the destressing the edge step with scotch bright isn't really a step of this sharpening method
but after watching this video I finally bought a stone (harbor freight 4side diamond), and I did manage to get paper slicing on a dull dollar store paring knife that wouldn't bite into paper ... all under 2 minutes also
feels great to be able to slice bread again smiling smiley



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/30/2014 07:24PM by ShaperAndMower.
Re: Things that are actually ok - sharpening videos
November 30, 2014 08:23PM
This is one of my favorite videos, besides Cliff's three step sharpening, it shows how simple and easy it can be.
Re: Things that are actually ok - sharpening videos
December 06, 2014 08:21AM
This is an interesting video, I give the guy credit for very efficient use of the stone/grit :



Re: Things that are actually ok - sharpening videos
December 06, 2014 08:25AM
Quote
jasonstone20
This is one of my favorite videos....

The only issue I have with that is that what he is doing will generally cause people to apply a micro-bevel. They then find sharpening very easy at first but after awhile they noted that everything starts to become harder to sharpen and the cutting ability and edge retention decreases.

It is similar to the video's where Jerry Fisk and others show how you can sharpen a knife with just a few passes on an India stone and leather, again this only works if you apply a micro-bevel and it quickly stops working as the micro-bevel keeps thickening.
Re: Things that are actually ok - sharpening videos
December 06, 2014 10:09PM
That is true and a very good point. I just think that if people believe sharpening is possible and simple, then they will get positive results by starting with the simple stuff and then progressing to full on sharpening, like burr sharpening or the three step method.
Re: Things that are actually ok - sharpening videos
December 06, 2014 10:33PM
That is a great video! Way to get everthing out of a stone that you can. Reminds me of Murray Carter in a way.
Re: Things that are actually ok - sharpening videos
December 08, 2014 11:51AM
I came across this while researching burr-brushes for burr removal:
WS shun sharpening machine, burr brush deburr
Re: Things that are actually ok - sharpening videos
December 15, 2014 11:29AM
Has anyone heard of or used this stone before? White/Pink AlO
Donaco Sharpening Stone
Re: Things that are actually ok - sharpening videos
December 15, 2014 12:08PM
Pink aluminum oxide (ruby) is a common industrial abrasive, not so common in sharpening stones. I have a bunch of them (not that one) which I intend to try out shortly.
Re: Things that are actually ok - sharpening videos
December 15, 2014 02:44PM
I actually have a couple of stones in that, the finish does seem finer than my 1200 diamond plate (it was advertised as 3000 grit), but then again it would be weird it it didn't. The one I mainly use does seem to like loading and remaining loaded though.
Re: Things that are actually ok - sharpening videos
December 15, 2014 02:45PM
This is a neat video, good idea for gouges, ect that need sharpening. Has anyone heard of the MicroMesh? 12k sounds nice!
Leather tool sharpening
Re: Things that are actually ok - sharpening videos
December 15, 2014 03:49PM
I have used this technique before, with thinner knives you need some material to insert in the clip so it doesn't wiggle and you lose your angle.
Clip Sharpening Trick



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/15/2014 03:50PM by jasonstone20.
Re: Things that are actually ok - sharpening videos
December 16, 2014 02:37PM
Not a bad video, not sure what is means by micro-chipping and the prevention of it.
Wicked Edge Sharpening
Re: Things that are actually ok - sharpening videos
December 25, 2014 07:39PM
This guy has very practical videos on sharpening :





He shows just how simple sharpening can be and how very solid results can be obtained with very basic stones.
Re: Things that are actually ok - sharpening videos
December 25, 2014 11:40PM
I like his videos also, for the same reasons.
Re: Things that are actually ok - sharpening videos
March 16, 2015 02:48PM
As a different sort of viewpoint on sharpening :





His approach is very simple, practical and this is a guy who works with his knives so there is some merit there in functional performance. Now if you look at the sharpness he achieves, then many here may likely claim it isn't actually very sharp compared to what can be obtained. However from a practical perspective - is this really significant.

Take a look at the knives he notes are literally a couple of decades old and see how little wear they show because of the heavy/frequent use of a steel which is really minimizing metal loss through sharpening. These are all very tough/ductile steels, 5Cr13 is a common stainless and it is nearly an ideal material for that type of use.
Re: Things that are actually ok - sharpening videos
March 18, 2015 11:37AM
How to Sharpen A Knife:
Looks like standard burr sharpening, although there is a big girt jump, and the final grit is pretty high in my opinion for the everyday knife user.

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"Gotta love living in 2019 baby, (63rc too soft on a production knife)"
--Shawn Houston
__
"I am still discussing issues of steels and performance at this stage."
--Cliff Stamp
__
"Cause geometry cuts, .....steel determines the level and the duration"
--Roman Landes
__
"But in general, I'm all about high performance, Ergos, safety. That's why I've been accused of 'designing in the dark' "
--Sal Glesser
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Jason D. Stone on YouTube
Re: Things that are actually ok - sharpening videos
March 18, 2015 12:18PM
The butcher video was great. Nice and simple, as well as being practical.
Re: Things that are actually ok - sharpening videos
March 25, 2015 07:06AM
Look at the before and after shots here :





It is interesting how we can have two such differing viewpoints, see Joe Calton's video where he talks about the same issue from the completely opposite perspective.



Re: Things that are actually ok - sharpening videos
March 27, 2015 03:01PM
It is interesting. I find it funny with so many right ways to do things, that if you explore different ways to solve the same problem, you can end up with a better understanding of the mechanisms at work.
Re: Things that are actually ok - sharpening videos
March 31, 2015 10:39AM
This is Bob Kramer displaying his kitchen sharpening kit:
Sharpening with Bob Kramer:
I found this interesting because of two things. One, that he doesn't spend a lot of time sharpening, he makes it quick, and two, his burr minimization and de-burring seem almost too quick.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gotta love living in 2019 baby, (63rc too soft on a production knife)"
--Shawn Houston
__
"I am still discussing issues of steels and performance at this stage."
--Cliff Stamp
__
"Cause geometry cuts, .....steel determines the level and the duration"
--Roman Landes
__
"But in general, I'm all about high performance, Ergos, safety. That's why I've been accused of 'designing in the dark' "
--Sal Glesser
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
StoneSharpEdges

Jason D. Stone on YouTube
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