A Reconsideration of Stropping

Jason,

That was the combination I started with. That combination ends up acting pretty fine and can quickly remove all slicing aggression from steels that are not highly wear resistant, so I would recommend limiting the number of passes.

I'm currently trying out 30 micron CBN emulsion and will have some pictures and comments about it in a week or two.

SD-
Yes, on the rare occasions I do strop, I keep it around 2-5 pps. I just got some 3M wet/dry AlO/SiC polishing paper, 30u, 15u, 9u, 3u, 2u and 1u. Also, I might try stone slurry on rough weave (like a firehose) linen and see how that works.

"I am still discussing issues of steels and performance at this stage." -- Cliff Stamp, May his memory be a blessing
"Life is GOOD", -- Stefan_Wolf, May His Memory Be A Blessing
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I have some pieces of scrap leather. I'm gonna have to try it now, though I haven't stropped regularly in years.

Steel_Drake,
On low (1095, 3cr13, 5cr13, AUS 6, X55/1.4116/1.4110/4116 ect) and mid carbide (8cr13, AUS 8, ATS 34/154CM) steels with low PPS on the strop (ie less than 5 passes per side) does the micro convexity appear, using the metal polishes? Can you take a microscope image of the edge with 2 pps up through 5 pps? Thank you!


Edit:
Also, check out the YouTube by Cliff:
[youtu.be]

It seems that the micro-convexity is a similar concept just a smaller scale to how Cliff is doing the regrind/edge bevel/apex. Or am I just seeing things/wishful thinking?

"I am still discussing issues of steels and performance at this stage." -- Cliff Stamp, May his memory be a blessing
"Life is GOOD", -- Stefan_Wolf, May His Memory Be A Blessing
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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/06/2016 04:22AM by jasonstone20.

Jason,

I don't have time at the moment to watch the video or take fresh pictures for you, but existing work done by the Science of Sharp blog would seem to provide conclusive SEM imagery evidence that microconvexivity is generated to nearly the full extent a strop will do so within the first 3 passes per side.

I will take a look at the video and take some of my own pics when I have a chance.

S_D,
No need to take images then, I was just trying to differentiate between the 2-5pps and the 20-30pps, and was wondering if it was just the wear resistant steel. I have good results with 2-5pps, and on SoS's blog he shows that the edge is cleaned up with that many. But I usually don't use high carbide steels, just usually easy to sharpen stuff. Thank you for your time.

"I am still discussing issues of steels and performance at this stage." -- Cliff Stamp, May his memory be a blessing
"Life is GOOD", -- Stefan_Wolf, May His Memory Be A Blessing
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Steel Drake:
I found some very good information about stropping on the Wicked Edge Forum, here is a post in a thread that has a lot of information:
[knife.wickededgeusa.com]

"I am still discussing issues of steels and performance at this stage." -- Cliff Stamp, May his memory be a blessing
"Life is GOOD", -- Stefan_Wolf, May His Memory Be A Blessing
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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/22/2016 07:05PM by jasonstone20.

Steel_Drake,
Interesting thing I saw when I re-read Todd's (Science of Sharps) work of the micro-convexing, is that he does 20 pps edge trailing to raise a slight foil edge first, and that elevated edge leading passes leave micro chips. I haven't had a chance to discuss this with Todd, and last time chatted with him on a forum he clarified a lot of his method, and what we see in his blog is mostly the results and a little of the method, generally speaking. Also, I think he was talking about straight razors, and with the thin, very acute angles that are used, it could explain the micro-chipping. I have been using his method for micro-convexing on knives, and I get great results, and haven't killed an edge or lost slicing aggression when using it, so something is working with Todd's method.

"I am still discussing issues of steels and performance at this stage." -- Cliff Stamp, May his memory be a blessing
"Life is GOOD", -- Stefan_Wolf, May His Memory Be A Blessing
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I tried this stropping technique with Blue Magic metal polish on my free hanging strop that has rough weaved linen (the kind that looks like firehose) with 10 PPS, then Enkay Green on the other side on the linen, 10 PPS, and then 10 PPS on clean leather. Excellent results. I haven't killed the slicing aggression on a knife using this method yet, or ruined the high sharpeness. I am not sure what effect it has on edge retention, however.

"I am still discussing issues of steels and performance at this stage." -- Cliff Stamp, May his memory be a blessing
"Life is GOOD", -- Stefan_Wolf, May His Memory Be A Blessing
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An interesting discussion on the use of pasted strops (for straight razors):
[badgerandblade.com]

"I am still discussing issues of steels and performance at this stage." -- Cliff Stamp, May his memory be a blessing
"Life is GOOD", -- Stefan_Wolf, May His Memory Be A Blessing
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I am resurrecting this thread. Two free hanging strops made in China from imported top grain leather incoming. Will load with Ken Schwartz 45 micron and 16 micron diamond. Gotta test them.

On the other hand, Mark of Molecule Polishing passed away not long ago. Prayer to the bereaved family.

I am thinking that as long as the blade has a good HT, and the edge isn't burnt, that if you want a push cutting edge, stropping is the way to go. I have managed to do pasted stropping and then plain stropping on good HT'd steel, and get the edge to pass the standing cigarette paper cutting test. This is ideal for me since, (yes I know you guys are probably tired or hearing it) I tend to push cut. The edge I am looking for will shave hair above the skin, just like a straight razor. This is the edge that makes me happy, it is one that will completely sever a head hair in both directions, either a HHT 0 or an HHT 3/4. My hanging CERTIF'D vintage Russian Leather strop is my weapon of choice, along with my other tools of the trade: Portland Knife House 1u Diamond Spray, Maggards 0.5 CrOx, FlexxCut Gold Compound and Knife Strop, Woodstock Red Compound, Woodstock Green Compound, and my very first green compound I used, Enkay Green. If you are careful, the edge should still slice paper towel, and folded paper towel.

"I am still discussing issues of steels and performance at this stage." -- Cliff Stamp, May his memory be a blessing
"Life is GOOD", -- Stefan_Wolf, May His Memory Be A Blessing
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I just sharpened the PM2 last night, and I noticed something. If the blade is passing a HHT 3/4 right off the stones, it has more of a chance to still pass a HHT 3/4 in the morning if sharpened at night. If you need to strop it to get it to an HHT 3/4, the blade will drop in sharpness more noticeably.

"I am still discussing issues of steels and performance at this stage." -- Cliff Stamp, May his memory be a blessing
"Life is GOOD", -- Stefan_Wolf, May His Memory Be A Blessing
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so whats happening to it overnight?

----------------------------------------------------------------------
It's not Cliff, its Dr Stamp
#kebabstickcut, it's a thing - make it happen

cKc,
A combination of corrosion and metal having a memory. There is a thread here somewhere and a few posts about this. I will try and track them down.

"I am still discussing issues of steels and performance at this stage." -- Cliff Stamp, May his memory be a blessing
"Life is GOOD", -- Stefan_Wolf, May His Memory Be A Blessing
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I have a horrible time searching for things on this forum. I did find this, however:
[www.bladeforums.com]

"I am still discussing issues of steels and performance at this stage." -- Cliff Stamp, May his memory be a blessing
"Life is GOOD", -- Stefan_Wolf, May His Memory Be A Blessing
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Quote

Apparently, knives will lose sharpness over time, even when not used at all, and not exposed to rust or corrosion.

Ah.. ok.. yes.. at the end of the day, the edge is microscopic, and susceptible to oxidation.

take any stainless steel and grind a bit off on a grinder and watch that dust corrode very fast.

it actually is rust and corrosion, but at a scale too small to see.
i guess most people are not oiling their knives after sharpening and ensuring there is no steel or debris on the edge.

for example, after sharpening, any steel or powder dust from the sharpening itself left on the blade or edge will corrode fast, and then eat into the touching steel from my experience.

once sharp, run the blade through something like rubber or leather to clean it off properly and rub it in vaseline to see if the problem reduces if you want to experiment.

with all my carbon knives etc.. when i have a strop available and i am at home. i always tend to swipe it one time before cutting on any new day.. thats normally enough to refinish the edge. especially for carbon kitchen knives that might get left damp

----------------------------------------------------------------------
It's not Cliff, its Dr Stamp
#kebabstickcut, it's a thing - make it happen

cKc,
That is what I was working on, finding what causes the edge sharpness to deteriorate. So far preventing corrosion has working the best, along with grinding off the burr or not forming one in the first place.

"I am still discussing issues of steels and performance at this stage." -- Cliff Stamp, May his memory be a blessing
"Life is GOOD", -- Stefan_Wolf, May His Memory Be A Blessing
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I am thinking that because I didn't strop and used oil for sharping, and only superficially wiped off the blade, that the edge was preserved.

"I am still discussing issues of steels and performance at this stage." -- Cliff Stamp, May his memory be a blessing
"Life is GOOD", -- Stefan_Wolf, May His Memory Be A Blessing
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yeah.. burr if there is one, is going to deteriorate faster as its thinner. more oxygen..

stropping might have an undesirable effect if the strop stuff is dirty and loaded.. those loaded particles will be glued to the apex by the compound. not sure if this is going to have a poor effect or not without a microscope detailed enough to see. final strop on dry leather helps clean it

----------------------------------------------------------------------
It's not Cliff, its Dr Stamp
#kebabstickcut, it's a thing - make it happen