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Easiest Way For High Sharpness Edge

Posted by jasonstone20 
Easiest Way For High Sharpness Edge
August 07, 2016 07:46AM
I have been thinking about easier ways to get high sharpness edges, ie head hair whittling( mostly a push cutting measurement, 3x90° x-grain push cut on phonebook paper), and at the least beard hair (3x90° with the grain phonebook paper push cut) whittling. What is the easiest way (stones, techniques, sharpening systems) that work for you?
I am talking about sharpness and equipment/techniques like this:

[youtu.be]

[youtu.be]

[youtu.be]


For me, using Cliff's burrless sharpening with muddy stones to prepare the apex, and then apexing/microbeveling/deburring with a sintered ceramic hone or high grit diamond plate (followed by a fewpasses on a loaded strop, if desired or necessary) or using Murry Carter's waterstone technique works the best for me freehand. The Edge-Pro Clone, Gatco EdgeMaker, Lanksy Diamond 4-Rod Turndox, DMT Magna-Guide Aligner workbest for me as far as guided systems achieving head-hair whittling sharpness.

Also, it makes high-sharpeness edges (mostly measured by push cutting) to finish with higher grit abrasives, ie 4k+ JIS grit. Is there an easy way to reach this sharpness level with coarser grits (325# diamond, Fine India, Soft Arkansas, 1k King, ect), as it takes some effort to achieve this for me.

"I am still discussing issues of steels and performance at this stage."
--Cliff Stamp

"Cause geometry cuts, .....steel determines the level and the duration"
--Roman Landes

"But in general, I'm all about high performance, Ergos, safety. That's why I've been accused of 'designing in the dark' "
--Sal Glesser
Re: Easiest Way For High Sharpness Edge
August 07, 2016 09:00AM
The absolute most screaming sharpness I can get is with low carbide steel off a 1k/6k King. On apexing, I use alternating edge into strokes followed by maybe 4-5 edge trailing strokes. Easily push shaves arm hair at that point.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Bill22252 on YouTube. "See you space cowboy"

Resident Emerson Fanboi

Folding knives are fun, fixed blades are important.
Re: Easiest Way For High Sharpness Edge
August 07, 2016 09:12AM
Bill,
I get great results off of my Steelex/Woodstock 1k/6k also, it's one of my favorite stones, as the 1k side is nice and muddy, while the 6k polishes and cuts relatively fast, and I can do edge leading passes also. I have been wanting to get a King 6k, a have a few 1k's by King. How do you like the King 6k?

"I am still discussing issues of steels and performance at this stage."
--Cliff Stamp

"Cause geometry cuts, .....steel determines the level and the duration"
--Roman Landes

"But in general, I'm all about high performance, Ergos, safety. That's why I've been accused of 'designing in the dark' "
--Sal Glesser



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/07/2016 09:14AM by jasonstone20.
Re: Easiest Way For High Sharpness Edge
August 08, 2016 03:24PM
Jason: The King 6k is temperamental. It loads quickly unless you use optimal pressure; the difference between optimal pressure to get the stone to cut and gouging it feels like about a half a pound.

It benefits from being hit with a nagura before use as well as regular flushing. As a finishing stone, you get blistering edges if you do your part.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Bill22252 on YouTube. "See you space cowboy"

Resident Emerson Fanboi

Folding knives are fun, fixed blades are important.
Re: Easiest Way For High Sharpness Edge
August 08, 2016 05:41PM
Bill,
Nice. Sounds a little more tricky than the 6k side of the Steelex stone I have. I like the Norton 8k also, it just takes figuring out the right technique for what you want from it.

"I am still discussing issues of steels and performance at this stage."
--Cliff Stamp

"Cause geometry cuts, .....steel determines the level and the duration"
--Roman Landes

"But in general, I'm all about high performance, Ergos, safety. That's why I've been accused of 'designing in the dark' "
--Sal Glesser
cKc
Re: Easiest Way For High Sharpness Edge
August 08, 2016 07:34PM
I'm sure the easiest way to get a high sharpenss edge is to send it to Cliff because I'm sure he enjoys sharpening, and then wait for it to come back.

Costly sure. time consuming.. check. Easy.. smiling smiley

----------------------------------------------------------------------
[data.gearbastion.com]
KnivesAndStuff (YoutTube)
Re: Easiest Way For High Sharpness Edge
August 08, 2016 07:55PM
cKc!
Ha!

"I am still discussing issues of steels and performance at this stage."
--Cliff Stamp

"Cause geometry cuts, .....steel determines the level and the duration"
--Roman Landes

"But in general, I'm all about high performance, Ergos, safety. That's why I've been accused of 'designing in the dark' "
--Sal Glesser
Re: Easiest Way For High Sharpness Edge
August 08, 2016 07:56PM
Kyley: Ha. Very true.

Jason: With waterstones, I have found that a lot of the difficulty goes away if you use them primarily as finishing stones and you lap them after every use.

Even the 1K stone I consider to be for polishing out the scratches and burr from something like a coarse diamond or AlOX stone.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Bill22252 on YouTube. "See you space cowboy"

Resident Emerson Fanboi

Folding knives are fun, fixed blades are important.
Re: Easiest Way For High Sharpness Edge
August 08, 2016 08:02PM
Bill,
I agree. I found that I can condition other stones if I use the right selection when flattening my waterstones, to minimize waste. I was flattening after each use, but have been a little lazy lately....

"I am still discussing issues of steels and performance at this stage."
--Cliff Stamp

"Cause geometry cuts, .....steel determines the level and the duration"
--Roman Landes

"But in general, I'm all about high performance, Ergos, safety. That's why I've been accused of 'designing in the dark' "
--Sal Glesser



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/08/2016 08:05PM by jasonstone20.
Re: Easiest Way For High Sharpness Edge
August 10, 2016 06:11PM
Jason,

For my money, I don't think its going to be practical to beat using a Sigma Power Select II 1k to cut off the old apex and shape the edge bevel until it no longer reflects light from a directed light source, and then set the apex using 30 micron CBN emulsion on a suede bench strop with about 10 passes per side.

Total time from cutting off the old apex to push-cutting newsprint at 90 degrees across the grain is about 5 minutes.

I actually shot a video of myself doing just this. I'll post a link once I have it up on YouTube.
Re: Easiest Way For High Sharpness Edge
August 10, 2016 06:32PM
Steel_Drake,
I have been meaning to get a SPS II 1k/6k combination stone.

"I am still discussing issues of steels and performance at this stage."
--Cliff Stamp

"Cause geometry cuts, .....steel determines the level and the duration"
--Roman Landes

"But in general, I'm all about high performance, Ergos, safety. That's why I've been accused of 'designing in the dark' "
--Sal Glesser
Re: Easiest Way For High Sharpness Edge
August 19, 2016 08:09PM
Here's some more sharpness tests, these are also taken to a very high grit >1 micron, angle and grit description are in the video description:

[youtu.be]
[youtu.be]
[youtu.be]
[youtu.be]

"I am still discussing issues of steels and performance at this stage."
--Cliff Stamp

"Cause geometry cuts, .....steel determines the level and the duration"
--Roman Landes

"But in general, I'm all about high performance, Ergos, safety. That's why I've been accused of 'designing in the dark' "
--Sal Glesser
Re: Easiest Way For High Sharpness Edge
September 04, 2016 12:13PM
I have found that a light touch when apexing can make a huge difference in get a knife into the high sharpness range.

Cliff,
Some knives seem to take a high shapness edge easier than other. I keep going back and forth between whether or not it's my technique, the steel, or the apex geometry, or a combination of all of the above. Am I just seeing things, or is this an accurate assessment?

"I am still discussing issues of steels and performance at this stage."
--Cliff Stamp

"Cause geometry cuts, .....steel determines the level and the duration"
--Roman Landes

"But in general, I'm all about high performance, Ergos, safety. That's why I've been accused of 'designing in the dark' "
--Sal Glesser
Re: Easiest Way For High Sharpness Edge
September 04, 2016 02:57PM
Steels can make a large difference yes, so can geometry.
Re: Easiest Way For High Sharpness Edge
September 04, 2016 07:00PM
Cliff,
Thank you, I had been wondering about that. After I posted the previous, I got to thinking that to clarify it is the steel itself, and how it's been heat treated, much more than the class of steel or type of steel. For example, I have some samples of 420J2 that are stellar, and take a high sharpness readily, and then some which struggle to get sharp at all. The twoa samples I have right now of AEB-L, for instance, one behaves different at 60HRC, which it seems to be like a nice 420HC or AUS6/8, while the other at 64HRC, it is phenomenal for sharpening, getting a high sharpness easily, high polish, corrosion resistance, and high sharpness edge retention.

"I am still discussing issues of steels and performance at this stage."
--Cliff Stamp

"Cause geometry cuts, .....steel determines the level and the duration"
--Roman Landes

"But in general, I'm all about high performance, Ergos, safety. That's why I've been accused of 'designing in the dark' "
--Sal Glesser
Re: Easiest Way For High Sharpness Edge
September 08, 2016 10:18AM
An interesting sharpening technique:

[youtu.be]

This level of sharpness this guy gets is amazing. I really wonder if I could every duplicate it, it gives me something to chase. It's interesting, and Cliff pointed this out years ago on this forum when he posted one of this guys videos, is how many dislikes and hateful comments he gets. Mind blowing.

"I am still discussing issues of steels and performance at this stage."
--Cliff Stamp

"Cause geometry cuts, .....steel determines the level and the duration"
--Roman Landes

"But in general, I'm all about high performance, Ergos, safety. That's why I've been accused of 'designing in the dark' "
--Sal Glesser
Re: Easiest Way For High Sharpness Edge
September 09, 2016 09:43AM
Well, I got as close as I ever have before, using KWB's Small Fixed Blade, AEB-L, Peter's Heat Treatment to ~64HRC:[www.instagram.com]

"I am still discussing issues of steels and performance at this stage."
--Cliff Stamp

"Cause geometry cuts, .....steel determines the level and the duration"
--Roman Landes

"But in general, I'm all about high performance, Ergos, safety. That's why I've been accused of 'designing in the dark' "
--Sal Glesser
Re: Easiest Way For High Sharpness Edge
September 09, 2016 10:46AM
Nice Jason. That is not easy at all.

_______________________________________________________________________________________________

Always in search of a good choppa'
Re: Easiest Way For High Sharpness Edge
September 09, 2016 03:25PM
Collin,
It's funny, I just tried the sharpest knives I had. The I had one knife that left fuzzy edges, I resharpened it, now it just tears the paper. The KWB just left almost a completely clean cut. I am pretty sure that there is some technique that helps also.

"I am still discussing issues of steels and performance at this stage."
--Cliff Stamp

"Cause geometry cuts, .....steel determines the level and the duration"
--Roman Landes

"But in general, I'm all about high performance, Ergos, safety. That's why I've been accused of 'designing in the dark' "
--Sal Glesser
Re: Easiest Way For High Sharpness Edge
September 09, 2016 03:30PM
Whoops, I too post the YouTube I was trying to imitate:
[youtu.be]

"I am still discussing issues of steels and performance at this stage."
--Cliff Stamp

"Cause geometry cuts, .....steel determines the level and the duration"
--Roman Landes

"But in general, I'm all about high performance, Ergos, safety. That's why I've been accused of 'designing in the dark' "
--Sal Glesser
cKc
Re: Easiest Way For High Sharpness Edge
September 10, 2016 01:36AM
problem with this test is that there is an infinite number of grades of toilet paper. this test is easy with the cheap as dirt mall paper, but not so much the comfy 3-ply deluxe grinning smiley

----------------------------------------------------------------------
[data.gearbastion.com]
KnivesAndStuff (YoutTube)
Re: Easiest Way For High Sharpness Edge
September 11, 2016 07:26AM
cKc,
You are right, the material plays a big factor it the test. Given that, on anything but the cheap, firm stuff, it's challenging. I have been working on it, ans you need a high polish, and the ability it execute a snap cut, then draw it down at the same time, otherwise you either get a small, clean cut, or a large tear. It's like all the sharpening 'tricks', part sharp knife, part materials cut, part technique, but the ones this guys doing are very impressive. The most impressive ones I have seen so far.

"I am still discussing issues of steels and performance at this stage."
--Cliff Stamp

"Cause geometry cuts, .....steel determines the level and the duration"
--Roman Landes

"But in general, I'm all about high performance, Ergos, safety. That's why I've been accused of 'designing in the dark' "
--Sal Glesser
Re: Easiest Way For High Sharpness Edge
September 11, 2016 09:25AM
cKc,
The video he has with the water soaked facial tissue is also very impressive:
[youtu.be]

Not sure how the quality of the tissue effect the display here. I have two different qualties of bathroom tissue and two different facial tissues, I will try out wet and dry to see if there's a difference between the quality of the materials, and how much of one.

"I am still discussing issues of steels and performance at this stage."
--Cliff Stamp

"Cause geometry cuts, .....steel determines the level and the duration"
--Roman Landes

"But in general, I'm all about high performance, Ergos, safety. That's why I've been accused of 'designing in the dark' "
--Sal Glesser
Re: Easiest Way For High Sharpness Edge
October 05, 2016 10:48AM
Gold Dollar 208 Straight Razor, Surgical Black Arkansas:

[www.instagram.com]

There is definitely some technique in getting a big, clean cut, but the blade has to be as sharp as you can get it also. The more I try to accomplish these high grit sharpness cuts, the more impressed I am at someone who can achieve it.

I keep wondering how useful a ultra fine edge finish (8k-10k+) will be for EDC, and still have some fairly useful amount of slicing aggression.

"I am still discussing issues of steels and performance at this stage."
--Cliff Stamp

"Cause geometry cuts, .....steel determines the level and the duration"
--Roman Landes

"But in general, I'm all about high performance, Ergos, safety. That's why I've been accused of 'designing in the dark' "
--Sal Glesser
Re: Easiest Way For High Sharpness Edge
October 05, 2016 03:26PM
A Shapton 12K edge and apex still slices, not rope slicing but shoe strings and paracord it cuts well enough.
Re: Easiest Way For High Sharpness Edge
October 06, 2016 06:36PM
I tried again with a utility knife and a tight grit progression (1k, 3k, 4k, 6k, 8k, Welsh Slate Dragon's Tongue, 10 & 0.5 micron diamond paste strop on wood):
[www.instagram.com]

"I am still discussing issues of steels and performance at this stage."
--Cliff Stamp

"Cause geometry cuts, .....steel determines the level and the duration"
--Roman Landes

"But in general, I'm all about high performance, Ergos, safety. That's why I've been accused of 'designing in the dark' "
--Sal Glesser
Re: Easiest Way For High Sharpness Edge
October 06, 2016 07:41PM
Quote
jasonstone20
I tried again with a utility knife and a tight grit progression (1k, 3k, 4k, 6k, 8k, Welsh Slate Dragon's Tongue, 10 & 0.5 micron diamond paste strop on wood):
[www.instagram.com]
Hi,
thats a crabon blade right?
ever snap one sharpening?

____
Thanks
I don't mow smiling smiley
Re: Easiest Way For High Sharpness Edge
October 07, 2016 09:53AM
Yes, I think so because it rusts easily. I did break a smaller one that I use for evaluating sharpening stone grits.

PS: Between the Welsh Slate Dragon's Tongue and the diamond paste, I did 50 PPS on rough linen loaded with Blue Magic metal polish, then 50 PPS on rough linen with Enkay Green, then 50 PPS on bare leather on a hanging strop. The diamond paste was about 20 PPS for both the 10 micron and 0.5 micron.

"I am still discussing issues of steels and performance at this stage."
--Cliff Stamp

"Cause geometry cuts, .....steel determines the level and the duration"
--Roman Landes

"But in general, I'm all about high performance, Ergos, safety. That's why I've been accused of 'designing in the dark' "
--Sal Glesser
Re: Easiest Way For High Sharpness Edge
October 10, 2016 07:10AM
I think I have the hang of it now (at least the simple part and test). From what I learned taking the Box Cutter, I was able to use that technique with the Gold Dollar 208, still with the same Surgical Black Arkansas Stone:

[www.instagram.com]

"I am still discussing issues of steels and performance at this stage."
--Cliff Stamp

"Cause geometry cuts, .....steel determines the level and the duration"
--Roman Landes

"But in general, I'm all about high performance, Ergos, safety. That's why I've been accused of 'designing in the dark' "
--Sal Glesser
Re: Easiest Way For High Sharpness Edge
November 14, 2016 12:20PM
I think I have my technique and method down, I was able to get the Benchmade Griptillian to perfom close to what the staight razor can do:[www.instagram.com]

"I am still discussing issues of steels and performance at this stage."
--Cliff Stamp

"Cause geometry cuts, .....steel determines the level and the duration"
--Roman Landes

"But in general, I'm all about high performance, Ergos, safety. That's why I've been accused of 'designing in the dark' "
--Sal Glesser
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