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Water, Oil, or Dry for DMT Stones

Posted by me2 
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me2
Water, Oil, or Dry for DMT Stones
November 09, 2016 12:36PM
I have a DMT aligner pro kit on the way. I previously used DMT dry. Any suggestions on lubricant? Or was i doing it right before?
Re: Water, Oil, or Dry for DMT Stones
November 09, 2016 02:33PM
I use just water with the ocasional scrubbing with soap (like doing your dishes), and it works well. I tend to sharpen next to the kitchen sink though.
Re: Water, Oil, or Dry for DMT Stones
November 09, 2016 04:44PM
I tend to just use water or Simple Green. I would use baby oil if I was going to be doing a lot of work, but I try to avoid that on the diamonds.

_______________________________________________________________________________________________

Always in search of a good choppa'
me2
Re: Water, Oil, or Dry for DMT Stones
November 09, 2016 04:52PM
Why no oil on the diamonds? I was planning to use a light coat of mineral oil to see if it would work.
Re: Water, Oil, or Dry for DMT Stones
November 09, 2016 05:03PM
I have read that if you let the oil stay on the plate without wiping dry after use over time it could damage the plate, not sure on what mechanism though… my guess would be clogging of compacted in between the diamonds. I would say use oil, if you are ok with the cleanup and you don't forget to do it… it should cut better with less wear on the diamonds.
Re: Water, Oil, or Dry for DMT Stones
November 09, 2016 07:01PM
Undiluted Simple Green works for me. I'm sure you could water it down some but my recent experiment with the UF ceramic stone (which is notorious for clogging) seemed to work extremely well with this approach.

I think the better question might be under what, if any, circumstances would you want to grind anything without some kind of lubrication. I would think never.
Re: Water, Oil, or Dry for DMT Stones
November 09, 2016 07:29PM
Windex, water with a few drops of dishsoap, Smith's Sharpening Solution, oil. I have heard the issue with using oil on the plates also, but I haven't experienced any problems.

"I am still discussing issues of steels and performance at this stage." -- Cliff Stamp, May his memory be a blessing
"Life is GOOD", -- Stefan_Wolf, May His Memory Be A Blessing
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Re: Water, Oil, or Dry for DMT Stones
November 09, 2016 08:26PM
Oil in my experience with DMT does not damage the plates, in fact it is the first step I use in a full cleaning.
Also from my experience in aircraft and welding and here have no idea how it could damage the plates. Personally I think it is because oil tends to mask the abrasive enough to be noticeable and DMT knows this would have a negative appearance on their marketing of diamond abrasives. But that is just my opinion.
RFL
Re: Water, Oil, or Dry for DMT Stones
November 09, 2016 10:16PM
I have several DMT plates, and WD-40 or any light oil works very well. Grinding the apex or edge bevels is always very fluid, with limited glazing of the surface. Furthermore, washing the plates after using light oil is very efficient and productive. When I used water or windex as a cutting fluid, I would have to scrub the plates clean due to excessive loading. WD-40 is definitely the best cutting fluid for DMT plates, however mineral spirits or baby oil (light mineral oil) works fine.
Re: Water, Oil, or Dry for DMT Stones
November 10, 2016 02:33AM
I meant I try to avoid doing a lot of extensive grinding on the diamonds

_______________________________________________________________________________________________

Always in search of a good choppa'
Re: Water, Oil, or Dry for DMT Stones
November 10, 2016 03:35AM
RFL,
When I used Windex, when the stone would load, I just rinse it with a few squirts of the windex and any swarf comes right off. Have you tries rinsing with Windex?

"I am still discussing issues of steels and performance at this stage." -- Cliff Stamp, May his memory be a blessing
"Life is GOOD", -- Stefan_Wolf, May His Memory Be A Blessing
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RFL
Re: Water, Oil, or Dry for DMT Stones
November 10, 2016 05:06PM
On the finer plates (XF and XXF) I can spray the loaded surface and blot off most of the swarf, to make the plate semi-clean. On the coarser plates (XXC, C, F), spraying and blotting is not very effective. It is much more productive to wash off the swarf with liquid dishwashing soap and water, or comet cleanser.
Re: Water, Oil, or Dry for DMT Stones
November 10, 2016 10:03PM
RFL,
That's funny you mentioned the difference between the coarse and finer plates, I just noticed the same thing, but I thought it was just oil swarf residue that wasn't rinsing off.

"I am still discussing issues of steels and performance at this stage." -- Cliff Stamp, May his memory be a blessing
"Life is GOOD", -- Stefan_Wolf, May His Memory Be A Blessing
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me2
Re: Water, Oil, or Dry for DMT Stones
November 11, 2016 03:58AM
Ok, I've been playing with the kit for a couple night now. I decided on water. I want something to keep the dust to a minimum. I also think using oil would make the clamp and stone holder way too slippery. For now, it will be water.

I took my wife's Chicago Cutler knife and sharpened it to an impressive level from the coarse all the way to the green extra fine. I used Cliffs scrubbing method on the stones and had to remove and reclamp the knife as the low angle I was using was causing the stone holder to hit the knob on the clamp. After rebeveling on the lowest setting for this knife, I increased the angle by one notch (approximately 4 dps), and added a microbevel with the green stone. It is just shy of tree topping, and is a considerable improvement over my first attempts last night. There is a learning curve to be sure, but its not too bad. The main thing is just figuring out how low you can go for a given knife. There is a nice chart that gives approximate angles for each setting and for different blade widths in 0.5", 1", 2", 3", and 4" increments.

The clamp also works pretty well in it's bench stone mode. I can see this being really useful for someone using 2 sided bench stones, where the thickness of the stone is constant. In this mode, the tightening knob is out of the way, as it's pretty far up the clamp. However, one side has a small brass nut/threaded bushing protruding slightly. I accidentally had it too low, and ground a little tiny bit off the bushing with my Norton stone. I was able to basically match my 12 dps back bevel on the small Partoku I was sharpening. I'm rebeveling a bit, as I did some pretty high angle passes on the 1k King stone, and want to get rid of the higher bevel from that. It's very nice to use on a bench stone, as you can use the entire surface pretty evenly and don't have to worry about angle control. I think Waterstones would be best, as I'm hesitant to put a lot of pressure on the stone and clamp for fear of warping or bending it. Oilstones seem like more pressure would be required to work efficiently. Unless you have a matched set of stones, it would be difficult to use this mode to get a nice wide polished bevel. My King is thinner than my 220 grit Norton, and this makes for a nice way of making microbevels, as the thinner stone is just slightly at a higher angle. A full set of DMT or other diamond stones would work for getting even edges on all grits. The angle can be adjusted by raising or lowering the stone relative to the clamp. This can all get really finicky pretty fast though, as my Norton 220, King 1000, and King 4000 grit stones are all different thicknesses.

The downsides are up next. This isn't a really good system if you like very thin bevels. The clamp gets in the way sometimes, depending on how low you want to go. Also, very narrow blades are an issue as well. For instance, a SAK Classic would be difficult to do, as the blade is less than 1/4" wide. It does offer consistency, and I keep having to remind myself I've got 15 years of practice with my guided blocks, bench stones, and Sharpmaker.
Re: Water, Oil, or Dry for DMT Stones
November 11, 2016 11:46AM
Chris,
On my kit I have had issues with the brass nut creeping. The instructions say after tightening to loosen the front screw a quarter turn, which helps this from happening. It can be pressed back in place, but over tightening the clamp causes it to creep again. Also, I just let the coarse plate grind a corner ibto the brass nut until it was flush with the clamp.

"I am still discussing issues of steels and performance at this stage." -- Cliff Stamp, May his memory be a blessing
"Life is GOOD", -- Stefan_Wolf, May His Memory Be A Blessing
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me2
Re: Water, Oil, or Dry for DMT Stones
November 11, 2016 12:58PM
That is likely what I'll end up doing as well regarding how the brass nut sticks out. I try to tighten the clamp as little as possible, and this is where I see possible issues with the oil. I could see the clamping power bring compromised by oil. It's good to know to watch for the creeping. Also, I would likely be tempted leave a knife I was working on clamped up till I was done, but the more I think about it, that would be a bad idea.

I want to try the bench stones on the Cold Steel Lite Hunter. It's currently my favorite fixed blade.
Re: Water, Oil, or Dry for DMT Stones
November 11, 2016 02:40PM
Chris,
Out of all the clamps I have used, the DMT aligner is the one I have liker the best. It's light, versatile in use and angle options, and because it's not metal, it grabs better and doesn't slip as much, as well as not scratching as much, although if it gets dirty it will. I like using glass cleaner with it.

"I am still discussing issues of steels and performance at this stage." -- Cliff Stamp, May his memory be a blessing
"Life is GOOD", -- Stefan_Wolf, May His Memory Be A Blessing
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me2
Re: Water, Oil, or Dry for DMT Stones
November 11, 2016 02:49PM
The ability to use it on bench stones is really a bonus. It takes a little creativity, but it definitely an advantage.
me2
Re: Water, Oil, or Dry for DMT Stones
November 21, 2016 12:16AM
Sharpened s few blades with the diamonds and found the S110 in my Manix was still a bit behind my other knives in terms of sharpness. I plan to cut some cardboard tomorrow then resharpen and repeat.

In addition, I've found the diamonds do not give as sharp an edge as either my King 1k or the Sharpmaker.
Re: Water, Oil, or Dry for DMT Stones
November 21, 2016 12:46AM
Chris,
What I find that helps for increased sharpness with this set-up is to raise the angle on or two settings and very lightly microbevel with edge leading passes and crossing the scratch pattern, heel to tip, tip to heal. Also I clean the plate before microbeveling and apply more water/windex/oil.

Edit:
P.S.
It might also just be that the diamonds are new and need to break in a little.

"I am still discussing issues of steels and performance at this stage." -- Cliff Stamp, May his memory be a blessing
"Life is GOOD", -- Stefan_Wolf, May His Memory Be A Blessing
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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/21/2016 12:47AM by jasonstone20.
Re: Water, Oil, or Dry for DMT Stones
November 21, 2016 12:59AM
My personal preference on diamond plates is to use mineral oil as I find that it really helps in keeping the metal swarf from sticking to the stone. I've been able to clean my DMT EF and EEF by just wiping off the oil and swarf with a rag occasionally and then re-applying oil.
me2
Re: Water, Oil, or Dry for DMT Stones
November 21, 2016 04:18AM
I have been setting the bevel at about 16 degrees (lowest setting) with the blue stone, then go up one notch and micro bevel with the red then green stones. I use water, but will eventually try oil.
Re: Water, Oil, or Dry for DMT Stones
November 21, 2016 03:52PM
Chris,
When I first got the system, I would sharpen until the light was no longer reflecting on the lowest setting, then set it for the highest setting, to two passes per side (4 in total), one heel to tip, tip to heel edge leading, on all the settings on down, until I was back at the lowest setting again. I would get screaming sharp edges, but I stopped doing it because of the time it took and I mostly freehand. When I do use it, I use it like you do, kind of like how I mentioned previous.

"I am still discussing issues of steels and performance at this stage." -- Cliff Stamp, May his memory be a blessing
"Life is GOOD", -- Stefan_Wolf, May His Memory Be A Blessing
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Re: Water, Oil, or Dry for DMT Stones
November 25, 2016 09:49PM
Mineral oil

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Re: Water, Oil, or Dry for DMT Stones
December 18, 2016 01:00PM
I use water and a bit of dish soap. This makes the knives easy to rinse off and use right away (I sharpen when I start using a knife, and realise the last person in the kitchen has trashed the knives), the stones stay clean, and everything is easy to clean up afterwards. Every now and then, I'll give my DMT's a once over with a pencil eraser, and that unclogs them and returns them to like new condition.