Diamond Waterstones

Hello Jason,

Thank you for the response. I had my hands on the Venev bonded diamond before and I can confirm that while they are good, they could be better. I am very interested in the bonded CBN stones now.

It seems to me that BBB's CBNs are made for him only? Are there any viable alternative bonded CBN stones (or diamond)?

[www.edgeproinc.com]
Must say I am intrigued.

I am currently on a life project and every penny must be spent wisely.

Okay, reading the comments above on the Venev Bonded Diamond I do have very similar results. So it seems the Venev Diamond are good for what they are, and they can't produce fine edge. Turns out the abrasives aren't as good as they are advertised.

Some time ago I bit the bullet and went full WE and managed to learn a lot from the closed system. (Everything is proprietary so the only variable is my skill).

I am super intrigued by the Matrix Diamond now.

vigilconfido,
Naniwa makes some diamond waterstones, I don't know of any other bonded CBN stones.

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"Gotta love living in 2019 baby, (63rc too soft on a production knife)"
--Shawn Houston
__
"I am still discussing issues of steels and performance at this stage."
--Cliff Stamp
__
"Cause geometry cuts, .....steel determines the level and the duration"
--Roman Landes
__
"But in general, I'm all about high performance, Ergos, safety. That's why I've been accused of 'designing in the dark' "
--Sal Glesser
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StoneSharpEdges

Jason D. Stone on YouTube

Quote
jasonstone20
vigilconfido,
Naniwa makes some diamond waterstones, I don't know of any other bonded CBN stones.

[www.amazon.co.jp]
God bless Amazon, now I see it I need to get it.

vigiloconfido,
I forgot to mention and give a link for the JKI diamond waterstones. They are about the same price, have excellent feedback, and also don't have as much as a burring issue:
[www.japaneseknifeimports.com]

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gotta love living in 2019 baby, (63rc too soft on a production knife)"
--Shawn Houston
__
"I am still discussing issues of steels and performance at this stage."
--Cliff Stamp
__
"Cause geometry cuts, .....steel determines the level and the duration"
--Roman Landes
__
"But in general, I'm all about high performance, Ergos, safety. That's why I've been accused of 'designing in the dark' "
--Sal Glesser
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
StoneSharpEdges

Jason D. Stone on YouTube

Thank you Jason, they certainly looks interesting. I wonder who may be OEMing them?

vigiloconfido,
I am not sure who is making the JKI stones.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gotta love living in 2019 baby, (63rc too soft on a production knife)"
--Shawn Houston
__
"I am still discussing issues of steels and performance at this stage."
--Cliff Stamp
__
"Cause geometry cuts, .....steel determines the level and the duration"
--Roman Landes
__
"But in general, I'm all about high performance, Ergos, safety. That's why I've been accused of 'designing in the dark' "
--Sal Glesser
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
StoneSharpEdges

Jason D. Stone on YouTube

Michael Christy:

Metallic Bond Diamond:
[youtu.be]

Resin Bond CBN:
[youtu.be]

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gotta love living in 2019 baby, (63rc too soft on a production knife)"
--Shawn Houston
__
"I am still discussing issues of steels and performance at this stage."
--Cliff Stamp
__
"Cause geometry cuts, .....steel determines the level and the duration"
--Roman Landes
__
"But in general, I'm all about high performance, Ergos, safety. That's why I've been accused of 'designing in the dark' "
--Sal Glesser
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
StoneSharpEdges

Jason D. Stone on YouTube

With regards to the venev stones it looks like the issues they were having were due to the binder containing medium-hard particles of 7u in size. This means that the 1200F and 2000F stones would not leave a finish finer than the 800F stone.

They have released a 1200F stone using a different binder without the 7u particles but have said that 2000F is beyond the limits of the technology.

https://www.gritomatic.com/products/venev-ocb-bonded-diamond-stone-for-edge-pro

Timmyboy,
Thank you for the link. That explains a lot about the 1200/2000 stone I have from them. It sharpens, but the 1200 side leaved a better edge and the 2000 side cut faster. The finish on either was no where near 3u/1u respective. I did like using oil with the stones, seemed to make them work better. I guess it's back to the DMT 8k Mesh/3u.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gotta love living in 2019 baby, (63rc too soft on a production knife)"
--Shawn Houston
__
"I am still discussing issues of steels and performance at this stage."
--Cliff Stamp
__
"Cause geometry cuts, .....steel determines the level and the duration"
--Roman Landes
__
"But in general, I'm all about high performance, Ergos, safety. That's why I've been accused of 'designing in the dark' "
--Sal Glesser
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
StoneSharpEdges

Jason D. Stone on YouTube

Well, I looked at my Venev #1200 (3u) / #2000 (1u) stone under 60X magnification with my pocket microscope. The bronze color side (which I assumed was the #2000/1u) under magnification, has a mix of small particles and larger particles. The grey side (which I assumed was the #1200/3u) has only fine small particles. I compared this to my 4x2" Surgical Black Arkansas, and the Surgical Black has a smooth surface, but small, medium, large, and even huge particles.

Surgical Black Arkansas:


Venev Bronze Side:


Venev Grey Side:


------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gotta love living in 2019 baby, (63rc too soft on a production knife)"
--Shawn Houston
__
"I am still discussing issues of steels and performance at this stage."
--Cliff Stamp
__
"Cause geometry cuts, .....steel determines the level and the duration"
--Roman Landes
__
"But in general, I'm all about high performance, Ergos, safety. That's why I've been accused of 'designing in the dark' "
--Sal Glesser
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
StoneSharpEdges

Jason D. Stone on YouTube

Quote
jasonstone20
Surgical Black Arkansas:

Hi,
That black Arkansas picture is just actually venev grey side
Here fixed it for you

Speaking of even huge particles. thats 1inch long quartz in granite countertop

____
Thanks
I don't mow



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/17/2019 08:02PM by ShaperAndMower.

ShaperAndMower,
Nice catch, thank you. Here is the Venev Grey Side:


------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gotta love living in 2019 baby, (63rc too soft on a production knife)"
--Shawn Houston
__
"I am still discussing issues of steels and performance at this stage."
--Cliff Stamp
__
"Cause geometry cuts, .....steel determines the level and the duration"
--Roman Landes
__
"But in general, I'm all about high performance, Ergos, safety. That's why I've been accused of 'designing in the dark' "
--Sal Glesser
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
StoneSharpEdges

Jason D. Stone on YouTube

I messed up and just did the thumbnails not the full sized images. Here they are:
Venev Grey Side:

Venev Bronze Side:

Surgical Black Arkansas:


------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gotta love living in 2019 baby, (63rc too soft on a production knife)"
--Shawn Houston
__
"I am still discussing issues of steels and performance at this stage."
--Cliff Stamp
__
"Cause geometry cuts, .....steel determines the level and the duration"
--Roman Landes
__
"But in general, I'm all about high performance, Ergos, safety. That's why I've been accused of 'designing in the dark' "
--Sal Glesser
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
StoneSharpEdges

Jason D. Stone on YouTube

The difference between the grey and the bronze side is interesting. All my dual venev sided stones have a bronze side and a grey side. I wonder if they are different binders as the grey side always feels smoother even though it is the lower grit.

F400 grey
F800 bronze
F1200 grey
F2000 bronze

Timmyboy,
Yes, that's what I was wondering since I first got the stone. Does your 1200 grey side leave a finer finish than the 2000 bronze side? The 2000 Bronze side also cuts faster. I condition both the same with a King 220 SiC stone.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gotta love living in 2019 baby, (63rc too soft on a production knife)"
--Shawn Houston
__
"I am still discussing issues of steels and performance at this stage."
--Cliff Stamp
__
"Cause geometry cuts, .....steel determines the level and the duration"
--Roman Landes
__
"But in general, I'm all about high performance, Ergos, safety. That's why I've been accused of 'designing in the dark' "
--Sal Glesser
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
StoneSharpEdges

Jason D. Stone on YouTube

BladeForums: Edge Pro Diamond Matrix Stones

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gotta love living in 2019 baby, (63rc too soft on a production knife)"
--Shawn Houston
__
"I am still discussing issues of steels and performance at this stage."
--Cliff Stamp
__
"Cause geometry cuts, .....steel determines the level and the duration"
--Roman Landes
__
"But in general, I'm all about high performance, Ergos, safety. That's why I've been accused of 'designing in the dark' "
--Sal Glesser
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
StoneSharpEdges

Jason D. Stone on YouTube

JKI 1k/6k stones:
[www.bladeforums.com]

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gotta love living in 2019 baby, (63rc too soft on a production knife)"
--Shawn Houston
__
"I am still discussing issues of steels and performance at this stage."
--Cliff Stamp
__
"Cause geometry cuts, .....steel determines the level and the duration"
--Roman Landes
__
"But in general, I'm all about high performance, Ergos, safety. That's why I've been accused of 'designing in the dark' "
--Sal Glesser
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
StoneSharpEdges

Jason D. Stone on YouTube



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/02/2019 08:56PM by jasonstone20.

Venev 1200/2000:
[www.bladeforums.com]

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gotta love living in 2019 baby, (63rc too soft on a production knife)"
--Shawn Houston
__
"I am still discussing issues of steels and performance at this stage."
--Cliff Stamp
__
"Cause geometry cuts, .....steel determines the level and the duration"
--Roman Landes
__
"But in general, I'm all about high performance, Ergos, safety. That's why I've been accused of 'designing in the dark' "
--Sal Glesser
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
StoneSharpEdges

Jason D. Stone on YouTube

DMD stones:
[www.bladeforums.com]

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gotta love living in 2019 baby, (63rc too soft on a production knife)"
--Shawn Houston
__
"I am still discussing issues of steels and performance at this stage."
--Cliff Stamp
__
"Cause geometry cuts, .....steel determines the level and the duration"
--Roman Landes
__
"But in general, I'm all about high performance, Ergos, safety. That's why I've been accused of 'designing in the dark' "
--Sal Glesser
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
StoneSharpEdges

Jason D. Stone on YouTube

[forum.spyderco.com]

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gotta love living in 2019 baby, (63rc too soft on a production knife)"
--Shawn Houston
__
"I am still discussing issues of steels and performance at this stage."
--Cliff Stamp
__
"Cause geometry cuts, .....steel determines the level and the duration"
--Roman Landes
__
"But in general, I'm all about high performance, Ergos, safety. That's why I've been accused of 'designing in the dark' "
--Sal Glesser
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
StoneSharpEdges

Jason D. Stone on YouTube

Well, I just got the new Venev 800(5u/7u) /1200 (3u/2u) OCB Pocket Stone as a gift (thanks Ben!). Looks nice, I can't wait to try it out.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gotta love living in 2019 baby, (63rc too soft on a production knife)"
--Shawn Houston
__
"I am still discussing issues of steels and performance at this stage."
--Cliff Stamp
__
"Cause geometry cuts, .....steel determines the level and the duration"
--Roman Landes
__
"But in general, I'm all about high performance, Ergos, safety. That's why I've been accused of 'designing in the dark' "
--Sal Glesser
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
StoneSharpEdges

Jason D. Stone on YouTube



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/27/2019 04:42PM by jasonstone20.

Ok, I tried out the new Venev OCB 800/1200 stone. Cuts fast, doesn't load that much with water, has good feedback, and polishes nicely. Definitely an improvement over the 1200/2000 Venev stone.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gotta love living in 2019 baby, (63rc too soft on a production knife)"
--Shawn Houston
__
"I am still discussing issues of steels and performance at this stage."
--Cliff Stamp
__
"Cause geometry cuts, .....steel determines the level and the duration"
--Roman Landes
__
"But in general, I'm all about high performance, Ergos, safety. That's why I've been accused of 'designing in the dark' "
--Sal Glesser
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
StoneSharpEdges

Jason D. Stone on YouTube

I just used the 800/1200 OCB Venev stone on the PM2 in S30V, it worked very nicely. I think since most of the knife world is stuck in high carbide mode (stupidly, if you ask me) these stones are the future of knife sharpening.

Also, King has come out with a 1k Diamond Waterstone. It is full size and expensive compared to normal waterstones, but if you take J-Nats into account, the diamond waterstones are decently priced. I think the best by is the 3 stone 6 grit 1x6 Venev OCB stone set, if they are available now.

[www.gritomatic.com]
[www.ebay.com]

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gotta love living in 2019 baby, (63rc too soft on a production knife)"
--Shawn Houston
__
"I am still discussing issues of steels and performance at this stage."
--Cliff Stamp
__
"Cause geometry cuts, .....steel determines the level and the duration"
--Roman Landes
__
"But in general, I'm all about high performance, Ergos, safety. That's why I've been accused of 'designing in the dark' "
--Sal Glesser
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
StoneSharpEdges

Jason D. Stone on YouTube

I have never been a fan of diamond stones, but that is mostly bad experiences with the DMT stones. I don't have any high end steels to justify more stones, but these bonded diamond stones might solve my issues.

me2,
Yeah, they are a lot different than the plated diamond stones. They are more like the sintered ceramics from Spyderco (in general) and others, but use either diamond or CBN. There are some that also have different bonds.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gotta love living in 2019 baby, (63rc too soft on a production knife)"
--Shawn Houston
__
"I am still discussing issues of steels and performance at this stage."
--Cliff Stamp
__
"Cause geometry cuts, .....steel determines the level and the duration"
--Roman Landes
__
"But in general, I'm all about high performance, Ergos, safety. That's why I've been accused of 'designing in the dark' "
--Sal Glesser
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
StoneSharpEdges

Jason D. Stone on YouTube

Seeing what BBB can do with the CBN stones on Maximet is impressive. That's always been one of my issues with those types of steels. I could never get them that sharp. At this point it is not really an option for me. It seems like you spend 2x on stones to sharpen a knife you spent 3x on, and you get 10% to 20% more edge life and a pain to sharpen steel. No thanks.

I just got one of the new Venev Lynx OCB %25 1200(3/2u)/2000(1/0u) stone. Used it on the S30V PM2, doesn't load that much and leaves a nice polish. Left a arm hair tree-topping edge.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gotta love living in 2019 baby, (63rc too soft on a production knife)"
--Shawn Houston
__
"I am still discussing issues of steels and performance at this stage."
--Cliff Stamp
__
"Cause geometry cuts, .....steel determines the level and the duration"
--Roman Landes
__
"But in general, I'm all about high performance, Ergos, safety. That's why I've been accused of 'designing in the dark' "
--Sal Glesser
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
StoneSharpEdges

Jason D. Stone on YouTube

The things which need to be looked at for the stone is :

-does it release abrasive at all

(this would be a bad idea)

or

-does it have to be recut

If it has to be recut, how often and how do you do it.

Cliff,
The stones I have don't release abrasive. The closest way I can describe them is that they are like Spyderco Ceramic stones. The aren't permeable, you can use water, soapy water, or oil with them. You recut them with a SiC stone or Wet/Dry paper, and you can clean them with a pencil eraser. I treat and use them just like my Spyderco Ceramic hones.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gotta love living in 2019 baby, (63rc too soft on a production knife)"
--Shawn Houston
__
"I am still discussing issues of steels and performance at this stage."
--Cliff Stamp
__
"Cause geometry cuts, .....steel determines the level and the duration"
--Roman Landes
__
"But in general, I'm all about high performance, Ergos, safety. That's why I've been accused of 'designing in the dark' "
--Sal Glesser
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
StoneSharpEdges

Jason D. Stone on YouTube