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Naniwa 5000 grit stone; loads like lightning

Posted by ognennyy 
Naniwa 5000 grit stone; loads like lightning
July 22, 2018 02:06PM
I'm fairly new to water stone sharpening, or just knife sharpening in general. I'm sharpening a bark river Fox River Elmax (very hard steel it seems). I started with a 600 grit Naniwa Chosera and progressed through a 1000 Naniwa, 2000 Shapton pro, 3000 Naniwa Chosera, and trying to finish out with a 5000 grit Naniwa.

I understand that the higher grit a stone, naturally the faster that stone will load and metal will build up on the surface. You'd think that the hardness of 60-62 RC would mean metal would come off more slowly. But this Naniwa 5000 loads so fast it's just incredible. If I don't clean it every 30 seconds or so on my leveling stone, it just stops being effective because it's so loaded.

Has anyone else had this experience? Is the Naniwa 5000 indeed a fast loading stone, or is this just the case with all higher grit (5000+) stones? I can't imagine the later to be true. My 3000 grit Naniwa Chosera pretty much doesn't load at all, no matter how long you use it. Has anyone had experience with the Naniwa Chosera 5000 grit stone? It's pricey but if I can use it for more than a minute without needing to clean it due to loading I'll consider picking one up. How about Shapton 5000?

Thanks
Re: Naniwa 5000 grit stone; loads like lightning
July 22, 2018 02:31PM
ognennyy,
Try using a light slurry.

"Gotta love living in 2019 baby, (63rc too soft on a production knife)"
--Shawn Houston

"I am still discussing issues of steels and performance at this stage."
--Cliff Stamp

"Cause geometry cuts, .....steel determines the level and the duration"
--Roman Landes

"But in general, I'm all about high performance, Ergos, safety. That's why I've been accused of 'designing in the dark' "
--Sal Glesser
Re: Naniwa 5000 grit stone; loads like lightning
July 22, 2018 06:21PM
Hi Jason,

Do you mean use something like [www.amazon.com] to clean the stone once it has loaded?
Re: Naniwa 5000 grit stone; loads like lightning
July 23, 2018 02:48AM
Do you have any pics?

I have a Shapton 5000, I tried a few times and it loaded pretty fast. I never really liked it, but I didn't put that much work into getting to know it, and I was just learning waterstones at the time.

My King 6000 can get kind of loaded depending on the steel, but it's never made me think it's too loaded. At other times it doesn't load at all.

Sorry, I know none of that is an answer.

If you have a pic, please post. That might help.
Also, can you tell if it is polishing / doing anything to the edge? It usually doesn't take long on my King 6K to get some results.

I've always thought in general with waterstones (as indicated by the large number of grits in every line) that you're not supposed to spend to long at any grit (not that you are), in order to minimize loading and dishing.

_______________________________________________________________________________________________

Always in search of a good choppa'
Re: Naniwa 5000 grit stone; loads like lightning
July 23, 2018 07:49AM
Quote
C Amber
Do you have any pics?
I did not take pictures this time around. I will take some next time for sure.


Quote
C Amber
Also, can you tell if it is polishing / doing anything to the edge? I've always thought in general with waterstones (as indicated by the large number of grits in every line) that you're not supposed to spend to long at any grit (not that you are), in order to minimize loading and dishing.

The stone does polish and remove metal, at least before it loads. Every stroke I make between the start of the belly and the blade tip leaves a streak of metal on the surface, so clearly it's working. That is what seems so strange to me, and what motivated my question in the first place.

My 3000 grit stone is a Naniwa Professional Chosera (https://www.sharpeningsupplies.com/Naniwa-Professional-Stone-New-Chosera-P552C159.aspx) It feels smooth but at the same time I can feel tiny amounts of vibration, I can feel it cutting the metal. It sounds weird but the stone almost "tells me" when I'm doing it right. And it has never, ever loaded on me, no matter how long I've spent on the stone. Further, it has never actually looked to me like it needed to be leveled (even though I do level before I use it).

My Naniwa 5000 (https://www.amazon.com/Sharpening-stone-Specialty-SP-450-NANIWA/dp/B072N2SLQH/ref=sr_1_9?ie=UTF8&qid=1532356783&sr=8-9&keywords=Naniwa+Sharpening+Stone+5000) is quite the opposite. It feels spongy, and if I get careless with my angle control it very easily catches the edge and you can visibly see where my blade shaved off a tiny piece of the surface. I can't really feel it cutting the metal. And every time I move the blade across the stone you can see the line of metal left on the surface of the stone. I have to level this stone every 30-60 seconds during use because it doesn't take long before the entire surface is the color of metal instead of the original color of the stone.

Concerning your remark about moving quickly through the grits... I often look at the apex, test the blade apex by feel, and look under the scope to get a feel for the minimum number of strokes on any one grit I can get away with. My relative inexperience is making that a slow learning process for me though. Having one Elmax knife and another in A2 is making that learning curve even steeper, as I'm beginning to realize that the two steels are worlds apart in their hardness and grain character.
Re: Naniwa 5000 grit stone; loads like lightning
July 23, 2018 08:40AM
ognennyy,
No, I mean generating a slurry before you start sharpening. Like this: [youtu.be]

"Gotta love living in 2019 baby, (63rc too soft on a production knife)"
--Shawn Houston

"I am still discussing issues of steels and performance at this stage."
--Cliff Stamp

"Cause geometry cuts, .....steel determines the level and the duration"
--Roman Landes

"But in general, I'm all about high performance, Ergos, safety. That's why I've been accused of 'designing in the dark' "
--Sal Glesser
Re: Naniwa 5000 grit stone; loads like lightning
July 23, 2018 08:58AM
My experience in general with higher grit waterstones is that they are easy to cut into..the King 6K is like that, although I've learned to handle it and it rarely happens these days.

With respect to the loading, I have seen what you are describing. Does it happen with A2 as well?

The point of waterstones is that you want them to break down and release fresh grit, although not at too fast a rate (which is the balancing act between abrasive, type of abrasive, binder and binder amount). If it's not happening you may need to use more pressure, or start a slurry like Jason was saying ahead of time. Elmax is fairly wear resistant, and it may be be working on the edge, but wearing the grit smooth before it releases, which is where the pressure or slurry would come in.

Hopefully Cliff chimes in...I feel like I'm missing something here, and he's better at integrating all the things one should consider.

_______________________________________________________________________________________________

Always in search of a good choppa'
Re: Naniwa 5000 grit stone; loads like lightning
July 23, 2018 03:10PM
I think I will be making a habit of getting a slurry going before working the 5000 stone from now on. Thank you both C Amber and Jason for that suggestion. From what I remember so far I do like sharpening with a slurry on there. Previously I had discounted the slurry generated by leveling, and attributed the nice sharpening experience with a slurry to having just freshly leveled the stone, and also having removed the loaded metal stuck on the top. I never considered it might be the slurry.

C Amber I never really thought about it until now, but yes I do get the same quick loading on the 5000 when I'm sharpening my A2 knife. It takes longer than the Elmax knife, but it still happens pretty quickly. Odd that you mention pressure; I think you may be onto something. It takes me forever to sharpen that Elmax knife, but it gets extremely sharp (almost to the point of push cutting). On the other hand I can't get my A2 sharp enough to even slice cut copy paper. I think I'm using too much pressure when sharpening my A2, and not enough when sharpening my Elmax. Thanks for the pointers guys.
Re: Naniwa 5000 grit stone; loads like lightning
July 23, 2018 03:45PM
ognennyy:

little off topic:
Max achievable hardness of A2 is actually higher than that of elmax.
But if steel can be ground easily or not depends on a wear resistance - a different property.
Hardness will contribute to wear resistance increase tho..
F.e. can have 66HRC steel thats easier to grind than another at 40HRC.

Problem solving now:

1) Can you percept a sound feedback from the stone - do you hear when you grind the edge
and when you lower the angle to only glide the side ?

2) Can you measure how wide is the bevel you are trying to sharpen ?

3) Picture of the bevel ?

www.instagram.com/jscuttingtools
Re: Naniwa 5000 grit stone; loads like lightning
July 25, 2018 11:23AM
We've definitely hijacked my own thread at this point ha. But it's great info you guys are giving so no problem.

Between lightening the pressure wwwaaayyyy up when sharpening my A2 knife, slowing down, and paying more attention to the bevel angle, I got that thing razor sharp. JSCT apparently the wear resistance on that particular A2 knife is very low, because metal was coming off fast. So fast that I've basically rendered the knife useless in the two years I've owned it. But hey; I guess sharpening lessons are expensive. And the handle is still nice so there's that.
Re: Naniwa 5000 grit stone; loads like lightning
July 26, 2018 01:40AM
Elmax has 3 to 4 times more carbides so it is way more wear resistant and way more brittle..
I wouldnt say A2 has very low wear resistance it is relatively universal tool steel..
But unless you know how the knife was heat treated you wont know if A2
on your knife is adequate example or not..

Why we ve hijacked ? I am still waiting for the questions to be answered
so can proceed with more questions and maybe a solution soon..
Or building the slurry totally resolved it ?

www.instagram.com/jscuttingtools
Re: Naniwa 5000 grit stone; loads like lightning
July 26, 2018 04:18AM
If lightening the pressure on the A2 increased your sharpness, my guess is that by doing so you got less abrasive release, and so less loose grit sliding into the edge and keeping you from getting high sharpness (a common issue with waterstones that breakdown...hence why Cliff recommends final apexing with hard stones that don't breakdown). And I would also guess, at higher pressures, you got more abrasive release bc the A2 is less wear resistant so the grit of the waterstone could cut into it and be pulled out / broke free, releasing new abrasive.

With the Elmax, if it was getting sharper with the heavier pressure, I would think, because it's more wear resistance, the grit wasn't being pulled out / broken down, but rather was just being worn down, and getting smoother and smoother. w/o releasing new abrasive.

_______________________________________________________________________________________________

Always in search of a good choppa'
Re: Naniwa 5000 grit stone; loads like lightning
July 26, 2018 04:21PM
Quote
JSCT
Elmax has 3 to 4 times more carbides so it is way more wear resistant and way more brittle..
I wouldnt say A2 has very low wear resistance it is relatively universal tool steel..
But unless you know how the knife was heat treated you wont know if A2
on your knife is adequate example or not..

Why we ve hijacked ? I am still waiting for the questions to be answered
so can proceed with more questions and maybe a solution soon..
Or building the slurry totally resolved it ?

Until I read through all of your answers I did not realize that lack of slurry and too much pressure was actually a problem for getting my knife to maximum sharpness. I can build slurry using my lapping / leveling plate, but it's kind of a pain in the rear. My original question for this thread was, is my Naniwa #5000 stone a piece of garbage that loads and breaks down quickly? I think based on all the responses here, including the C Amber post above this one, the answer is that yes, it's a garbage stone.

I got a nogura stone from amazon the other day, but the stone is extremely hard and it does not build a slurry on my Naniwa #5000 very well. So I'm still stuck having to lap my Naniwa #5000 every 30-40 strokes. I need to either get a diamond lapping stone like in the youtube vid that Jason linked above, or get a Shapton or Naniwa Chosera #5000 soon. Or I can learn the proper pressure to use, for each knife, on my current garbage #5000 stone? I'm not sure which is the best option. Does one option sound better than the others to any of you?
Re: Naniwa 5000 grit stone; loads like lightning
July 26, 2018 04:23PM
Quote
C Amber
If lightening the pressure on the A2 increased your sharpness, my guess is that by doing so you got less abrasive release, and so less loose grit sliding into the edge and keeping you from getting high sharpness (a common issue with waterstones that breakdown...hence why Cliff recommends final apexing with hard stones that don't breakdown). And I would also guess, at higher pressures, you got more abrasive release bc the A2 is less wear resistant so the grit of the waterstone could cut into it and be pulled out / broke free, releasing new abrasive.

With the Elmax, if it was getting sharper with the heavier pressure, I would think, because it's more wear resistance, the grit wasn't being pulled out / broken down, but rather was just being worn down, and getting smoother and smoother. w/o releasing new abrasive.

Thanks that explanation makes complete sense to me. If I were to summarize this information; the less wear resistant a specific knife, the less pressure you must use when sharpening? When I say it that way it sounds so simple and obvious, but apparently it was a lesson I needed to learn the hard way.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/26/2018 04:24PM by ognennyy.
Re: Naniwa 5000 grit stone; loads like lightning
July 27, 2018 05:54AM
I will be honest, no offence:

1) It isnt a garbage stone.
2) Its You using it inappropriately.

Despite that, there would be way how to get more of your stone, perhaps:

You are looking for an "instant advice" without giving sufficient information
which would allow to proceed with problem solving.
(and auto-ignore importance to answer simple questions).
These are complex problems and having superficial attitude
cant help you resolve anything.

Similarly with such attitude it would be a coincidence that you
use your equipment appropriately and get optimal results.

www.instagram.com/jscuttingtools



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/27/2018 05:59AM by JSCT.
Re: Naniwa 5000 grit stone; loads like lightning
July 27, 2018 07:46AM
ognennyy,
It's an awesome stone. Japanese style waterstones, some more than others, are prone to loading. Some stones you can just rinse with water and wipe with your hand and they will come clean, others need a nagura stone, while others need to be lapped. Any sharpening stone needs proper maintenance, as they all load or glaze to some degree. Another thing I just though of is that make sure you did enough work on the stone right before the 5k (3k Chosera, right?), that should help with the loading also. You have an awesome set of stones, but waterstones can be tricky, especially when you are just starting out in sharpening (first year or two). Pressure on the last stone should be light if you want to get a higher degree of sharpness.

"Gotta love living in 2019 baby, (63rc too soft on a production knife)"
--Shawn Houston

"I am still discussing issues of steels and performance at this stage."
--Cliff Stamp

"Cause geometry cuts, .....steel determines the level and the duration"
--Roman Landes

"But in general, I'm all about high performance, Ergos, safety. That's why I've been accused of 'designing in the dark' "
--Sal Glesser
Re: Naniwa 5000 grit stone; loads like lightning
July 27, 2018 08:32AM
Quote
ognennyy
I'm sharpening a bark river…

Why do you use so many stones that are so close together in grit? That Chosera 1K-Shapton 2K-Chosera 3K progression is very tight, almost redundant. You could go straight from the Chosera 1K to the Super Stone 5K. Or omit the SS if you're not happy with it. Or go 600->2000.

Do you not get an adequate edge at lower grits? The Shapton 2000 and Chosera 3000 are nice finishers, it's difficult to improve on that edge.



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 07/27/2018 08:46AM by humphreyblowdart.
Re: Naniwa 5000 grit stone; loads like lightning
July 27, 2018 09:06AM
Quote
ognennyy
Thanks that explanation makes complete sense to me. If I were to summarize this information; the less wear resistant a specific knife, the less pressure you must use when sharpening? When I say it that way it sounds so simple and obvious, but apparently it was a lesson I needed to learn the hard way.

I hesitate to state it that strongly. It depends on the stone and how easily it breaks down. Also, while you can increase pressure, sometimes it's better to just get a stone that cuts the steel type more easily. Too much pressure can create premature dishing in the stone and other problems. So like if I'm shaping an wear resistant steel I use a Norton Crystolon or Diamonds or a really aggressive waterstone because they will cut faster w/ less pressure.

And I don't think it's a junk stone. I think it's just a matter of figuring out how to work it best. Takes time sometimes.

_______________________________________________________________________________________________

Always in search of a good choppa'
Re: Naniwa 5000 grit stone; loads like lightning
July 27, 2018 02:14PM
Quote
JSCT
I will be honest, no offence:

1) It isnt a garbage stone.
2) Its You using it inappropriately.

I'm sure my inexperience is causing me problems. And I'm starting to think I should not use my 5000 for my A2 knives. They are sharp off the 2000 Shapton and 3000 Chosera. Then they lose sharpness when I move to 5000. Probably I don't know how to use it correctly for my A2 knife. Or maybe 5000 is too fine of a grit for my A2 knives which seem to have low wear resistance.


Quote
JSCT
Despite that, there would be way how to get more of your stone, perhaps:

You are looking for an "instant advice" without giving sufficient information
which would allow to proceed with problem solving.
(and auto-ignore importance to answer simple questions).
These are complex problems and having superficial attitude
cant help you resolve anything.

Understood. I will make a point to slow down with the questions and pay more attention to each answer.
Re: Naniwa 5000 grit stone; loads like lightning
July 27, 2018 02:16PM
Quote
jasonstone20
Pressure on the last stone should be light if you want to get a higher degree of sharpness.

I will make sure to use very light pressure on my finish stone moving forward. Thank you.
Re: Naniwa 5000 grit stone; loads like lightning
July 27, 2018 02:24PM
Quote
jasonstone20
Another thing I just though of is that make sure you did enough work on the stone right before the 5k (3k Chosera, right?), that should help with the loading also.

Sorry I missed this part.

This is something I have really been focusing on lately, and it also closely relates to Humphreyblowdart's question. Yes, before moving to my 5k I use a 3k Naniwa Chosera. I really try to pay attention to making sure I don't move from one grit to the next before everything looks good at my current grit. Recently I've really been slowing down when sharpening. At 1000 grit or higher, every 40-50 strokes I stop and look at the edge and how light reflects from it. I feel it using my fingers and fingernail to see if it feels any sharper, and see if I have accidentally sharpened too much and allowed a burr to form. Then I do a paper cut test, and finally look at it under my microscope.

My conclusions from these observations: I do spend enough time on each grit before moving on. Unfortunately I almost always have a small burr form at the transition to the belly line, on every stone I use. You and C Amber have helped me address that issue in this post [www.cliffstamp.com]

Thanks
Re: Naniwa 5000 grit stone; loads like lightning
July 27, 2018 02:29PM
Quote
humphreyblowdart
Quote
ognennyy
I'm sharpening a bark river…

Why do you use so many stones that are so close together in grit? That Chosera 1K-Shapton 2K-Chosera 3K progression is very tight, almost redundant. You could go straight from the Chosera 1K to the Super Stone 5K. Or omit the SS if you're not happy with it. Or go 600->2000.

Do you not get an adequate edge at lower grits? The Shapton 2000 and Chosera 3000 are nice finishers, it's difficult to improve on that edge.

Hey Humphrey when I first started sharpening I had only a 1000 and 5000. I was not getting the results I expected. I believed that it was due to the large gap from 1000 to 5000. And I saw many of Virtuovice's videos on youtube where he used a 1000, 2000, and 3000. So I assumed my problem was that I also needed to progress through 1000, 2000, and 3000, before using the 5000. Now I am not so sure.

The 3000 Chosera gives me a nicer finish on my Elmax Fox River. For my Huntsman in A2 I do not know if 3000 gives me a better finish than 2000, I just haven't paid close enough attention. Do you believe I should just use my 1000 then finish with 3000 for Elmax or 2000 for A2, and skip the 5000?
Re: Naniwa 5000 grit stone; loads like lightning
July 27, 2018 04:09PM
Ognennyy.:
There is nothing like too high grit for the certain steel in terms of achievable sharpness.

1) Can you percept the sound feedback from the stone meaning if you can hear the difference
when you grind the edge and when you lower the angle to only glide on the side ?

2) Can you measure how wide is the bevel you are trying to sharpen ?
- this is critical to be able to realise and adjust pressure correctly.

In fact geometry (contact area) is lot more significant factor to speed
of grinding than the type of the blade steel.

www.instagram.com/jscuttingtools



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/27/2018 04:26PM by JSCT.
Re: Naniwa 5000 grit stone; loads like lightning
July 27, 2018 05:37PM
ognennyy,
Try de-burring before you start using the Naniwa 5k stone.

"Gotta love living in 2019 baby, (63rc too soft on a production knife)"
--Shawn Houston

"I am still discussing issues of steels and performance at this stage."
--Cliff Stamp

"Cause geometry cuts, .....steel determines the level and the duration"
--Roman Landes

"But in general, I'm all about high performance, Ergos, safety. That's why I've been accused of 'designing in the dark' "
--Sal Glesser
Re: Naniwa 5000 grit stone; loads like lightning
July 27, 2018 08:11PM
Quote
JSCT
Ognennyy.:
There is nothing like too high grit for the certain steel in terms of achievable sharpness.

1) Can you percept the sound feedback from the stone meaning if you can hear the difference
when you grind the edge and when you lower the angle to only glide on the side ?

2) Can you measure how wide is the bevel you are trying to sharpen ?
- this is critical to be able to realise and adjust pressure correctly.

In fact geometry (contact area) is lot more significant factor to speed
of grinding than the type of the blade steel.

JSCT

1) If I make very light strokes at a set angle (like if I pretend I am sharpening a straight grind instead of a convex edge) then yes I can hear a difference. With very, very light pressure at a set angle, the stone does give me feedback and I can tell when I'm on the apex edge. But I cannot hear it when I do the rocking motion for trying to do a continuous zero grind convex edge, which is what I'm trying to do.

2) If I'm being honest I don't really know how wide the the bevel is. Isn't a zero grind convex edge really just a series of thousands of very small bevels, set at increasingly obtuse angle as you move from the shoulder, down the bevel to the apex? I am not trying to grind / polish all the way from the spine down to the apex; but only a small portion of that. So if what we are talking about is only from the area on the bevel where I am beginning my grinding, down to the apex, that area is roughly 1mm.

This is a small knife I like to use for dressing small deer. I'm grinding a very small area, of a very small knife, and so each mistake I make is exaggerated. I have much more luck sharpening my larger knives.






This is a bit of a topic change, but back to the earlier topic of stones and which I should be using. I wonder should I skip from Chosera 600 (if I ever need to go that low) right up to Shapton 2000? The Shapton 2000 doesn't seem to be too much finer than the Naniwa Super Stone 1000. And the Naniwa is very soft, like its 5000 counterpart, and I have a lot of trouble with it. The Shapton 2000 is very hard, I have an easier time with it.
Re: Naniwa 5000 grit stone; loads like lightning
July 27, 2018 08:17PM
Quote
jasonstone20
ognennyy,
Try de-burring before you start using the Naniwa 5k stone.

Hey Jason thank you I will try that soon.
Re: Naniwa 5000 grit stone; loads like lightning
July 28, 2018 04:23AM
It is good to maintain the thickness of the primary behind the edge but for that is pointless
to use high grit.. maybe 1000 max if you dont want to have deep scratches with your rocking motion.
Once you apex your edge with 1000grit.. forget the rocking motion - just try to adjust an appropriate
angle f.e. 15dps and try to hold it accurately. No rush.
Forget what virtuovice is obsessed with in his videos smiling smiley
Just go straight to 3000 and keep angle, alterante sides each pass,
use almost no pressure and ensure you are on your edge.
If you have a problem with technique just make passes slow.

There is no point to want to have full convex to the very edge other than visual.
if you have bevel there instaead of full convex it is a lot easier to observe
and diagnose problems as well.

www.instagram.com/jscuttingtools
Re: Naniwa 5000 grit stone; loads like lightning
July 30, 2018 04:12AM
Quote
JSCT
It is good to maintain the thickness of the primary behind the edge but for that is pointless
to use high grit.. maybe 1000 max if you dont want to have deep scratches with your rocking motion.
Once you apex your edge with 1000grit.. forget the rocking motion - just try to adjust an appropriate
angle f.e. 15dps and try to hold it accurately. No rush.
Forget what virtuovice is obsessed with in his videos smiling smiley
Just go straight to 3000 and keep angle, alterante sides each pass,
use almost no pressure and ensure you are on your edge.
If you have a problem with technique just make passes slow.

There is no point to want to have full convex to the very edge other than visual.
if you have bevel there instaead of full convex it is a lot easier to observe
and diagnose problems as well.

I don't care what the apex looks like, I just want it to be sharp. I'll give this method a go on my next few knives I sharpen, thanks man.
Re: Naniwa 5000 grit stone; loads like lightning
July 30, 2018 11:09AM
ognennyy,
Do you have a Spyderco Sharpmaker or Spyderco Tri-Angle Rods? Any hard stones, like a Arkansas stone, diamond plate, ceramic stone? A strop?
What type of sharpening style or techniques are you using? If you are just using waterstones, try the technique Murray Carter uses: [youtu.be] or what Big Brown Bear uses: [youtu.be]

"Gotta love living in 2019 baby, (63rc too soft on a production knife)"
--Shawn Houston

"I am still discussing issues of steels and performance at this stage."
--Cliff Stamp

"Cause geometry cuts, .....steel determines the level and the duration"
--Roman Landes

"But in general, I'm all about high performance, Ergos, safety. That's why I've been accused of 'designing in the dark' "
--Sal Glesser



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/30/2018 11:31AM by jasonstone20.
Re: Naniwa 5000 grit stone; loads like lightning
August 16, 2018 03:28PM
Quote
jasonstone20
ognennyy,
Do you have a Spyderco Sharpmaker or Spyderco Tri-Angle Rods? Any hard stones, like a Arkansas stone, diamond plate, ceramic stone? A strop?
What type of sharpening style or techniques are you using? If you are just using waterstones, try the technique Murray Carter uses: [youtu.be] or what Big Brown Bear uses: [youtu.be]


Hey Jason no I don't have any of those items you've mentioned. I invested a lot of money in the water stones I have so that's what I have available to me for the foreseeable future. Sorry actually I do have a strop. I finish with light stropping on my DLT leather strop loaded with white compound to get my sharpest edge possible.

Thanks for those vids. I see a lot in common between those videos, as well as all videos created by experienced knife sharpeners.

1) They don't use a lot of different stones. For example they go straight from a 1000 to a 6000. They do not use a lot of transition stones
2) They use very little pressure. When I watch them it seems almost impossible to me that they could get the results they do with such little pressure.
3) Almost a simple conclusion from the above two; they take off very little metal, and spend very little time on the stones.

On average when I sharpen a knife I use wwwwwaaaaaayyyyy more pressure than those videos. I sometimes use 600, 1000, 2000, 3000, then 5000 stones. I spend almost 15 minutes on each of those stones. I must take off 10 times as much metal as they do in these videos. In the end I get a satisfactorily sharp edge.
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