The Benefits Of Plain Stropping

Often, stropping can ruin your slicing aggression and ruin your edge. I have found that minimal stropping works best, if you have to strop. I suggest using a plain strop first, like palm stropping suggested by knife maker Joe Calton. A barbers strop works well also. I have found that with plain stropping, ie not with an abrasive paste, you can refine the edge, keep slicing aggression, and not ruin the sharpness of your edge. However, I find no stropping to be ideal for EDC use or where slicing aggression is wanted.

edit: -- Murray Carter technique of stropping on newsprint has also worked very well for me, as well as Ernest Emerson's stropping on cardboard.

"I am still discussing issues of steels and performance at this stage." -- Cliff Stamp, May his memory be a blessing
"Life is GOOD", -- Stefan_Wolf, May His Memory Be A Blessing
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Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/16/2019 03:37AM by jasonstone20.

for me, besides straight razors, stropping is more of a method to clean an edge, perhaps get me out of a bind where my edge is dull but I just need to make a couple more cuts before the job is done and I can get to a stone. or a rough total sharpening job in a bind.

I like palm stropping for both straights, and to clean regular knife edges and perhaps wake them up a bit

for emergency sharpening, when you are away from the truck, old 2x4's imbedded with dirt, cinderblocks, rub dirt onto your jeans leg and strop on that, sharpening on sandpaper, ect….

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Joe,
I only strop in certain situations like the ones you mentioned. Usually for kitchen knives or EDC use you don't need to strop in my opinion. For straight razors it is almost a must. I don't shave, but that is what I have read.

"I am still discussing issues of steels and performance at this stage." -- Cliff Stamp, May his memory be a blessing
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Has anyone notice steel removal with plain linen and plain leather?

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I've been using the plain side of a strop I recently got, mostly on Class 2 steels (CPM154, D2), and I haven't really seen anything like that. I do think of it as more of a "strop for good luck" lol.

Luisknivacc,
Have you tried cleaning the leather? I get black steel residue when I clean my plain leather strops

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I was chatting on Instagram DM's with Tom Blodgett of Jende Industries (which was nice since we used to chat all the time when Ken Schwartz and Tom had the Sharpening Forum together, and I hadn't realized how much I had missed talking with him), and I asked him what he thought of plain stropping, like newspapers, linen/canvas, and linen. He said that he thought that most likely the edge was being aligned/straightened. I think he might me correct about that, especially when dealing with high grit finishes, and the micro-burr.

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I think there is some steel removal with plain stropping. This strop hasn't been cleaned in over a year.
Here is what my dirty strop looks like:







Canvas Close Dirty:


Canvas Super Close Dirty:


Leather Close Dirty:


Leather Super Close Dirty:


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Here are some images of my FlexCut Strop loaded with FlexCut Gold Stropping Compound, dirty and clean areas, for comparison:

Flex-Cut-Strop-Clean-Far


Flex-Cut-Strop-Clean-Near


Flex-Cut-Strop-Dirty-Far


Flex-Cut-Strop-Dirty-Near


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Are you saying this is what your strop looks like after a year, and you never applied any compound to it?

a few things can happen with plain leather or anything..

1, flakes of wire edges are being pulled off and embedding into the leather
2. the knife wasn't cleaned 100% with alcohol and degreasing before going to the strop and it is basically transferring sludge from the edge that came from slurry of oils, waters, stone, steel..

if its vegetable-tanned leather, there is very little in there that can wear a steel, but you can be burnishing the steel, and having residue come off it. or rubbing long enough transfer some of it.

there are many times after sharpening where I've wiped down a knife with a dry cloth and it looks clean, but getting a wet cloth with alcohol will take a smear of grey off the blade.

Quote
jasonstone20
I think there is some steel removal with plain stropping. This strop hasn't been cleaned in over a year.
Here is what my dirty strop looks like:

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cKc,
Yes, I don't use compounds on these parts of the strop. The leather is Russian Leather, the strop is an vintage CERTIFY'D CCCP strop. I clean the leather with alcohol, and I use soap and water for the canvas part.

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not sure i'd use alchohol on leather. bad habit to dry and crack it. it really shouldn't be getting that dirty. lol

normally for a strop, with compound.. i just use an edge of a metal ruler or other scraper to scrape it clean and apply new compound, and never touch the leather in any way.

i personally just cannot see the point to using a strop without compound unless the goal is just to be burnishing the edge or realigning as a barber does on a straight razor. part of the value of the strop with compound to me is the correction of oxidation through a fine cutting action

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Quote
cKc
realigning as a barber does on a straight razor. part of the value of the strop with compound to me is the correction of oxidation through a fine cutting action

This is what I use if for. I have found you even can remove small burrs on the apex, using the canvas first then leather. I apply a light coat of oil after using the alcohol to clean the leather, nothing else I have found with get the strop clean. I only have to clean it every one or two years, depending on how much I use it.

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i have to say, both oil and and alcohol on leather are not good for a strop from what I've experienced, and what I've read. alcohol has a habit of drying and cracking, oil has a habit of collecting and holding humid moisture and making the leather soft and conducive to mold.

i guess this is not of those things where every where you go there will be difference advice on the matter. if its working its working.

if you are removing burr on the strop then the risk is too much particle build up will just damage the apex on future passes. personally before I get to the point of using the strop, its edge condition should already be without issue, and the strop is then refining it a bit.

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cKc,
The way I use the strop to deburr is for hard to remove microburrs, and if I get a small roll or demormation from using the knife. I also use it for coming of some natural stones, it seems to help the edge out. And for the aforementioned refreshment of the edge due to corrosion.

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"Life is GOOD", -- Stefan_Wolf, May His Memory Be A Blessing
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if it's working for you, then great.


i wish I had a strop here. but I cant be bothered spending the money on one

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cKc,
Well, to be honest, I learned about stop maintenance from your YouTube video on how to clean a strop. I still use the metal ruler/scraper technique for my pasted strops. I learned the alcohol and oil thing from the straight razor forums, and the concerns you raised are valid. Just when I am trying to strop on plain leather, I want the surface to be a smooth and clean as possible, and only alcohol gets the pores of the leather clear. I am concerned however, because they don't make these vintage style strops anymore, the quality in the new strops isn't as good as the old one (supposedly) and my apartment building has a mold problem.

"I am still discussing issues of steels and performance at this stage." -- Cliff Stamp, May his memory be a blessing
"Life is GOOD", -- Stefan_Wolf, May His Memory Be A Blessing
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yes. i see the straight razor forums use oil.. but I believe its done very spareingly and only when the leather appears to be drying out.

i would question why your strop is as dirty as it is, if that is really metal filings. i would simply take extra steps to clean the apex before going to the strop. even if you just use a piece of cardboard first.

as far as alcohol or oil go.. it prob depends how sparingly its being used.

Quote

the quality in the new strops isn't as good as the old one (supposedly) and my apartment building has a mold problem.

Old wives tale as far as I am concerned.
buy vegetable tanned leather so that its not reacting with the steel. this is fairly cheap to buy off amazon.

i was selling 12" x 3" strips loaded with compound for about $10usd of thick top quality hide..

just buy the leather and glue it to a flat piece of wood or something. and if its going bad.. $5 for a new piece of leather.

Free hanging strops are not good for knives.
straign razors are manufactured with the thick spine designed to be an angle guide for the strop so that you cannot lift the edge too high etc. this doesn't apply to a normal knife.

you want it flat, and hard like a bench stone. and simply lap it on the strop exactly like you would do trailing passes on a fine stone.
but if you would do 15 degrees on a stone, you'd do 13 on the strop to compensate for the give in the leather, otherwise you will round the edge.. too many people keep saying strops roll edges etc etc.. its all rubbish.. no different than rolling the edge on a stone.

leather is so cheap.. even with the strop you have. just go to amazon and order a 6x12" piece and make a couple of very large paddles.. but some cheap 2x4 to glue it onto with a wood glue.

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cKc,
Yeah, I made a bunch of strops myself. I just have practiced with the hanging strop for a while that I don't get unwanted results from it, and I don't use it with compounds. I am trying to figure out why the strops get dirty at all. I try and wipe the knives down before I use the strop, and I almost always use the canvas/linen component first, so I am thinking that the edge should be clean by the time I get to the leather. Supposedly the leather is to have abrasive attributes, this is another thing I am trying to find out. Same with the coarse weave of the canvas/linen. As far as the hanging part goes, you can not ruin the edge if you are careful and use proper technique like you mentioned. You can also just lay the strop on a table, and it will behave more like a paddle strop. The thing is I have tried to replace this strop with a bunch of different implements, and there is just something about it that I get great results from, that I don't get from other equipment. Another question I am trying to answer.

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Quote
Jason
Supposedly the leather is to have abrasive attributes, this is another thing I am trying to find out.

I think this has been quite well proven to not be the case. however. at the micron level of the apex, continued rubbing produces burnishing effect similar to steeling on a completely smooth hone. so its straightening, and burnishing. but its not really abrading in the sense of grinding off metal. its smearing it. and prob only with a lot of passes.
stropping ScienceOfSharp
500 passes on a plain leather. cant imagine wasting that much time

I would question of a plain strop is going to be as effective or beneficial at all on any knife not as acute as a straight razor.
the lapping and burnishing is assisting in dealing with the microscopic flaws occurring after a shave to prolong the edge on a task
that is extremely low stress.

i cant imagine taken to knife tasks such as cardboard that edge isn't going to sustain well compared to one that was stripped with a green compound each day which is cleaning off material.

depends what you are trying to gain.
i can sit there and lap my knife 100 times on plain leather for minimal effect not much better than 2 passes on one of my nitride hones.. or I can do 5pps on a green compound hone and have instant gain in performance in the knife. I'll take the compound.

I'm weary of a lot of what I read on the Razer forums as it reads like the high cardboard knife groups.

Quote

and there is just something about it that I get great results from, that I don't get from other equipment. Another question I am trying to answer.

possible placebo.

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cKc
This is all the things I am trying to work out. I am looking for straight razor sharpness when I sharpen my knives. However, I am not sure that there is benefit in doing so, it is another thing I am trying to figure out. I am glad I brought this up, I know what to control now and what to look for. I am going to set it up where I clean the knife with alcohol before stropping, along with cleaning and documenting the date I used and cleaned the strop, and how many PPS I used. As far as the placebo effect, it could be. I was thinking it could be the length of the leather and how many PPS I do, as the hanging strop is 2 to 3 times longer than my paddle strops. I was also thinking it could be the type, thickness, surface finish, and pliability of the leather. Russian leather is supposed to be desirable for strops. I have my work cut out for me, I don't expect to have any preliminary ideas for a few years.

"I am still discussing issues of steels and performance at this stage." -- Cliff Stamp, May his memory be a blessing
"Life is GOOD", -- Stefan_Wolf, May His Memory Be A Blessing
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Sometimes the answer is just to keep it simple




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It's not Cliff, its Dr Stamp
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cKc,
Yep. I am starting to clean my strop now, and I am remembering that I use your scraping method first. Usually that is enough, but sometimes there is dirt that needs to be removed with the alcohol, but that is only %20 of the time when I clean the strop. I took photos of everything, so this should be interesting.

"I am still discussing issues of steels and performance at this stage." -- Cliff Stamp, May his memory be a blessing
"Life is GOOD", -- Stefan_Wolf, May His Memory Be A Blessing
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Scraping with metal ruler:



Cleaning with alcohol, no scraping:





Microscope, scraped with metal ruler:
Close:


Super Close:


Debris on ruler:
Close


Super Close:


Dirty Paper Towel from Alcohol cleaning:
Close:


Super Close:


"I am still discussing issues of steels and performance at this stage." -- Cliff Stamp, May his memory be a blessing
"Life is GOOD", -- Stefan_Wolf, May His Memory Be A Blessing
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cKc,
Another good thing to clean a strop is a pencil eraser. At the dollar store, I got two giant 6"x2" pencil erasers, and they have worked great for cleaning sharpening equipment. You don't did a huge eraser, you can use the regular sized erasers.

"I am still discussing issues of steels and performance at this stage." -- Cliff Stamp, May his memory be a blessing
"Life is GOOD", -- Stefan_Wolf, May His Memory Be A Blessing
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Well, I think I am going to have to sand the strop. This is a fresh, never been used, piece of leather:





This is underneath the metal fixture that holds the clip, leather, and canvas/linen parts of the strop together:





This is the leather part after cleaning:





This is the canvas/linen element after cleaning:







The leather, even after cleaning, is still completely embedded with metal particles. This isn't what I want my strop to look like. I think I am going to have to either sand it down or scrub it with soap and water, with a scrub brush.

"I am still discussing issues of steels and performance at this stage." -- Cliff Stamp, May his memory be a blessing
"Life is GOOD", -- Stefan_Wolf, May His Memory Be A Blessing
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Ok, I used some sulfate free shampoo and an old toothbrush to clean the leather component. It looks about five shades lighter, even when wet, and it feels like ultra-fine suede, not smooth like it was feeling. Once it dries, I will take some pictures and some microscope shots.

"I am still discussing issues of steels and performance at this stage." -- Cliff Stamp, May his memory be a blessing
"Life is GOOD", -- Stefan_Wolf, May His Memory Be A Blessing
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This looks a lot better:

Ok, the KWB M390, KWB AEB-L Tanto, and Spyderco S30V PM2 are all stropped to tree-topping arm hair sharp, and I used a thin coat of baby oil to each knife. Each knife was cleaned with alcohol before stropping. I didn't treat the leather part of the strop with oil, I am just going to rub my hands down it, as that has been suggested on straight razor forums, because the oils in your hands should be enough to protect the leather. I am going to check on the sharpness tomorrow morning, and again at around this time (3:00 PM PST) my time. I am going to log this all in my journal, and keep track of it, along with taking a picture once a week of the strop, to see the progression of the loading.

"I am still discussing issues of steels and performance at this stage." -- Cliff Stamp, May his memory be a blessing
"Life is GOOD", -- Stefan_Wolf, May His Memory Be A Blessing
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