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Touch Up Maintenance: Abrasive Stropping, Plain Stropping, Touch Up Sharpening, Full Sharpening

Posted by jasonstone20 
Touch Up Maintenance: Abrasive Stropping, Plain Stropping, Touch Up Sharpening, Full Sharpening
November 07, 2019 08:35PM
I really don't care for 'touch up' sharpening. I enjoy sharpening so I will do a full sharpening progression. I find I get better results that way anyway. What do you think is the best way to keep you knives sharp?

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"Gotta love living in 2019 baby, (63rc too soft on a production knife)"
--Shawn Houston
__
"I am still discussing issues of steels and performance at this stage."
--Cliff Stamp
__
"Cause geometry cuts, .....steel determines the level and the duration"
--Roman Landes
__
"But in general, I'm all about high performance, Ergos, safety. That's why I've been accused of 'designing in the dark' "
--Sal Glesser
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StoneSharpEdges

Jason D. Stone on YouTube
I myself will often do "touch-up" sharpening, but more as a means to save time than anything else. Recently purchased a cheap strop paddle from ebay, and I can't really say my results are improving much at all, but using the coarse side to get rid of small gunk that ends up in the edge is pretty handy.
Luisknivacc,
What do you use for 'touch-up' sharpening, equipment wise?

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gotta love living in 2019 baby, (63rc too soft on a production knife)"
--Shawn Houston
__
"I am still discussing issues of steels and performance at this stage."
--Cliff Stamp
__
"Cause geometry cuts, .....steel determines the level and the duration"
--Roman Landes
__
"But in general, I'm all about high performance, Ergos, safety. That's why I've been accused of 'designing in the dark' "
--Sal Glesser
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StoneSharpEdges

Jason D. Stone on YouTube
I'll do a couple of deburring steps in a 600-1200 grit diamond plate, depending on the grit I finished the original edge, and work it back from there, then maybe a couple of passes on a strop.
This becomes even a more interesting question with a coarse edge. If you strop with a pasted abrasive =< 1u, how much of the coarse edge grit remains? Is this a better idea than going back to a coarse edge? Will you be able to strop back the edge of a coarse grit more often and still have slicing aggression vs a polished edge grit finish?

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gotta love living in 2019 baby, (63rc too soft on a production knife)"
--Shawn Houston
__
"I am still discussing issues of steels and performance at this stage."
--Cliff Stamp
__
"Cause geometry cuts, .....steel determines the level and the duration"
--Roman Landes
__
"But in general, I'm all about high performance, Ergos, safety. That's why I've been accused of 'designing in the dark' "
--Sal Glesser
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
StoneSharpEdges

Jason D. Stone on YouTube
Some sharpeners prefer pasted stropping to touch up sharpening, claiming that touch up sharpening fatigues the edge. Others argue the same thing with stropping. I would be interested to see if anyone has seen a difference between the two.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gotta love living in 2019 baby, (63rc too soft on a production knife)"
--Shawn Houston
__
"I am still discussing issues of steels and performance at this stage."
--Cliff Stamp
__
"Cause geometry cuts, .....steel determines the level and the duration"
--Roman Landes
__
"But in general, I'm all about high performance, Ergos, safety. That's why I've been accused of 'designing in the dark' "
--Sal Glesser
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
StoneSharpEdges

Jason D. Stone on YouTube
I touch up just about every day using a Sharpmaker. Wnichever knife I am carrying for that day. I just like my knives to be sharp enough to cut sushi at all times.

sal
sal,
I think the Sharpmaker is the best tool for quick sharpening. 5-10 passes per side and you are as good as new.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gotta love living in 2019 baby, (63rc too soft on a production knife)"
--Shawn Houston
__
"I am still discussing issues of steels and performance at this stage."
--Cliff Stamp
__
"Cause geometry cuts, .....steel determines the level and the duration"
--Roman Landes
__
"But in general, I'm all about high performance, Ergos, safety. That's why I've been accused of 'designing in the dark' "
--Sal Glesser
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
StoneSharpEdges

Jason D. Stone on YouTube
I don't know what exactly tipped me over the edge, but you guys have finally convinced me to at least try out the ultra fine Sharpmaker rod, got that and a Herder paring knife to look forward to now.
Luis,
Nice, the UF stone is amazing. The Herder paring knife has a spectacular geometry.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gotta love living in 2019 baby, (63rc too soft on a production knife)"
--Shawn Houston
__
"I am still discussing issues of steels and performance at this stage."
--Cliff Stamp
__
"Cause geometry cuts, .....steel determines the level and the duration"
--Roman Landes
__
"But in general, I'm all about high performance, Ergos, safety. That's why I've been accused of 'designing in the dark' "
--Sal Glesser
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
StoneSharpEdges

Jason D. Stone on YouTube
For me, I have had better results doing touch ups with the Spyderco Sharpmaker than using pasted strops. It also is a lot harder to mangle or kill your edge with the Sharpmaker, along with no chance of losing slicing aggression. I think that as far as the fatigued steel goes, the Sharpmaker is also better for removing that steel, and because of the fixed angle and the stones being placed vertical, you can use very, very light pressure and so you can avoid fatiguing the steel more with the pressure vs abrasive removal of the steel.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gotta love living in 2019 baby, (63rc too soft on a production knife)"
--Shawn Houston
__
"I am still discussing issues of steels and performance at this stage."
--Cliff Stamp
__
"Cause geometry cuts, .....steel determines the level and the duration"
--Roman Landes
__
"But in general, I'm all about high performance, Ergos, safety. That's why I've been accused of 'designing in the dark' "
--Sal Glesser
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
StoneSharpEdges

Jason D. Stone on YouTube
For touch up sharpening, I have been playing around with drawing the edge through my thumbnail (like with sharpening a straight razor and you over-sharpened and developed a small burr), a piece of soft wood like pine, or cork, and then doing the touch up sharpening. What I am thinking is that this will set up any deformed and fatigued metal for easy removal with the touch up sharpening. I have noticed that it does take more passes on the stones to reform the apex. Also, I have noticed better edge retention (subjective, not measured) and the apex responds better when I need to touch up sharpen again later.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gotta love living in 2019 baby, (63rc too soft on a production knife)"
--Shawn Houston
__
"I am still discussing issues of steels and performance at this stage."
--Cliff Stamp
__
"Cause geometry cuts, .....steel determines the level and the duration"
--Roman Landes
__
"But in general, I'm all about high performance, Ergos, safety. That's why I've been accused of 'designing in the dark' "
--Sal Glesser
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
StoneSharpEdges

Jason D. Stone on YouTube
Full sharpening, if you have the time, is still better if you ask me, than doing a touch up sharpening or stropping. With proper technique, you can remove almost no steel (relative) and get a better edge.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gotta love living in 2019 baby, (63rc too soft on a production knife)"
--Shawn Houston
__
"I am still discussing issues of steels and performance at this stage."
--Cliff Stamp
__
"Cause geometry cuts, .....steel determines the level and the duration"
--Roman Landes
__
"But in general, I'm all about high performance, Ergos, safety. That's why I've been accused of 'designing in the dark' "
--Sal Glesser
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
StoneSharpEdges

Jason D. Stone on YouTube
What I've been doing in the kitchen is do a couple 40º passes per side to create a microbevel and work it down to 15º with following passes.
Luis,
That makes sense, I have used that technique, and it works well.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gotta love living in 2019 baby, (63rc too soft on a production knife)"
--Shawn Houston
__
"I am still discussing issues of steels and performance at this stage."
--Cliff Stamp
__
"Cause geometry cuts, .....steel determines the level and the duration"
--Roman Landes
__
"But in general, I'm all about high performance, Ergos, safety. That's why I've been accused of 'designing in the dark' "
--Sal Glesser
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
StoneSharpEdges

Jason D. Stone on YouTube
I finally had some good results stropping to refresh the edge. The edge was pretty low(closer to zero), and I cut up about 20 cardboard boxes, and the edge was reflecting light. I also had an accidental impact on the handle of the stove. So I did 10 PPS on a hanging canvas strop loaded with Woodstock Red Compound (jewelers rouge, which I believe is the finest they make grit-wise). 10 PPS on plain canvas, and 20 PPS on plain leather. The edge was no longer reflecting light in the belly were the accidental impact happened, and the main part of the edge was barely shaving. Now the whole blade is tree-topping, and still slices folded and not folded paper towel (Kirkland Brand). There is one part of the blade, at the base of the belly, that has an indent from the accidental impact. This is making me wonder if how the edge wears, ie side to side deformation vs indentation and impacts, on how the edge responds to either stropping or touch up sharpening. I also used a higher angle than I would normally use, about 20° DPS.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gotta love living in 2019 baby, (63rc too soft on a production knife)"
--Shawn Houston
__
"I am still discussing issues of steels and performance at this stage."
--Cliff Stamp
__
"Cause geometry cuts, .....steel determines the level and the duration"
--Roman Landes
__
"But in general, I'm all about high performance, Ergos, safety. That's why I've been accused of 'designing in the dark' "
--Sal Glesser
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
StoneSharpEdges

Jason D. Stone on YouTube



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/05/2020 02:17PM by jasonstone20.
[forum.spyderco.com]

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gotta love living in 2019 baby, (63rc too soft on a production knife)"
--Shawn Houston
__
"I am still discussing issues of steels and performance at this stage."
--Cliff Stamp
__
"Cause geometry cuts, .....steel determines the level and the duration"
--Roman Landes
__
"But in general, I'm all about high performance, Ergos, safety. That's why I've been accused of 'designing in the dark' "
--Sal Glesser
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
StoneSharpEdges

Jason D. Stone on YouTube
Quote
jasonstone20
For touch up sharpening, I have been playing around with drawing the edge through my thumbnail (like with sharpening a straight razor and you over-sharpened and developed a small burr), a piece of soft wood like pine, or cork, and then doing the touch up sharpening. What I am thinking is that this will set up any deformed and fatigued metal for easy removal with the touch up sharpening. I have noticed that it does take more passes on the stones to reform the apex. Also, I have noticed better edge retention (subjective, not measured) and the apex responds better when I need to touch up sharpen again later.

Skip to 6:00



Murray carter in all his early sharpening videos always was a proponent of deburring on wood between each sharpening stage. sometimes deburr, then another light pass. light debur, and move on.

i have found using a hardwood, better than a soft wood, and after each sharpening grit i would draw the knife very hard through the wood, test it on paper, hone more if needed. draw lighter pass through wood.

i would do this through each step.. normally only 220, 400-600, 800-1000 sandpaper grits, before strop.

most essential time to do this was pre strop, as sandpaper would ript it off at each stage anyway..

but at that point where the knife comes off 800grit etc and feels very sharp and stropping.. often i would find the edge may not last.. especially on svord l6 type steels that are softer and very tough.

ripping it throught wood, strop, again wood, strop.. only a few passes each time. i can tangibly feel it get smooth pulling on wood until it slides like glass across the wood.. then i'd find id have an edge that will last a very long time.

of course, as i started using 2x72 grinders and making more knives etc. most of these steps were gone as it was all ground on the grinder until the final stage... so just the 1 step of debur and strop or sypderco stone

----------------------------------------------------------------------
It's not Cliff, its Dr Stamp
#kebabstickcut, it's a thing - make it happen
Kyley,
That is how I found your YouTube channel, from looking for sandpaper knife sharpening, and looking for who made that awesome blade Virtovice was showing me. And then I found you posted here, knew Cliff, and everything clicked for me.

Pulling the edge through wood works well, I use it often.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gotta love living in 2019 baby, (63rc too soft on a production knife)"
--Shawn Houston
__
"I am still discussing issues of steels and performance at this stage."
--Cliff Stamp
__
"Cause geometry cuts, .....steel determines the level and the duration"
--Roman Landes
__
"But in general, I'm all about high performance, Ergos, safety. That's why I've been accused of 'designing in the dark' "
--Sal Glesser
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
StoneSharpEdges

Jason D. Stone on YouTube
my 18" strops are my favourite way to hand sharpen..

hard leather backing, clamps and buy rolls of 3" wide sandpaper so you get a nice 18" length to run the blade down..

very fast and easy

----------------------------------------------------------------------
It's not Cliff, its Dr Stamp
#kebabstickcut, it's a thing - make it happen
The more I think about it, it is better to do a full sharpening if you have the time and proper environment. That is one of the benefits of running a coarse edge, sometimes all you need is one stone.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gotta love living in 2019 baby, (63rc too soft on a production knife)"
--Shawn Houston
__
"I am still discussing issues of steels and performance at this stage."
--Cliff Stamp
__
"Cause geometry cuts, .....steel determines the level and the duration"
--Roman Landes
__
"But in general, I'm all about high performance, Ergos, safety. That's why I've been accused of 'designing in the dark' "
--Sal Glesser
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
StoneSharpEdges

Jason D. Stone on YouTube
haha.. just found this video in my archive of private stuff.. i remember using this as a nice video demo test of sharpness from the sandpaper and stropping.





in someways its kind of like the karate guy breaking bricks test.. if it will do 1, it will do them all.. adding layers doesn't really make it harder.

its more about.. can the knife push cut through a 1" wide piece of leather from the tanned side.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
It's not Cliff, its Dr Stamp
#kebabstickcut, it's a thing - make it happen
I have found that the edge will stop responding to touch-ups or stropping 3-5 touch-ups/stroppings after a full sharpening. The first indication of this is loss of slicing sharpness. If slicing sharpness isn't measured or paid attention to, I am sure you can get many more touch-ups/stroppings than 3-5.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gotta love living in 2019 baby, (63rc too soft on a production knife)"
--Shawn Houston
__
"I am still discussing issues of steels and performance at this stage."
--Cliff Stamp
__
"Cause geometry cuts, .....steel determines the level and the duration"
--Roman Landes
__
"But in general, I'm all about high performance, Ergos, safety. That's why I've been accused of 'designing in the dark' "
--Sal Glesser
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
StoneSharpEdges

Jason D. Stone on YouTube
Quote
jasonstone20
I have found that the edge will stop responding to touch-ups or stropping 3-5 touch-ups/stroppings after a full sharpening. The first indication of this is loss of slicing sharpness. If slicing sharpness isn't measured or paid attention to, I am sure you can get many more touch-ups/stroppings than 3-5.

this is probably very relative to what you are cutting i guess, and the expectations, but also importantly the stropping compounds used.

compounds are kind of like sandpapers. so many grits and grades.. metal removal grits like the 600grit gray is an excellent field strop because it is literally polishing and cutting a new edge. the lime greens are a 3000grit or so that i use, and they work very well for me in keeping paper sharpness over and over.. but it comes down to how often you strop. the more, the better in a way..

then there are just so many other compounds for stainless high polish which are good for push cuts etc.

too many variables with compounds grinning smiley

----------------------------------------------------------------------
It's not Cliff, its Dr Stamp
#kebabstickcut, it's a thing - make it happen
cKc,
Right, I was assuming a high grit compound, as that is what I have been using. You should be able to get better results with a lower grit compound.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gotta love living in 2019 baby, (63rc too soft on a production knife)"
--Shawn Houston
__
"I am still discussing issues of steels and performance at this stage."
--Cliff Stamp
__
"Cause geometry cuts, .....steel determines the level and the duration"
--Roman Landes
__
"But in general, I'm all about high performance, Ergos, safety. That's why I've been accused of 'designing in the dark' "
--Sal Glesser
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
StoneSharpEdges

Jason D. Stone on YouTube
Ok, so I am doing touch up sharpenings on the Mini-Grip, and full sharpenings on the PM2. One thing that is important with touch up sharpening is not to oversharpen. This can be difficult to figure out how much sharpening to do, so I suggest small sets of 5 passes per side to start with, until desired sharpness is reached. If you do oversharpen, just drawn the knife through some wood and start over, or do high angle, light, forward leading passes.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gotta love living in 2019 baby, (63rc too soft on a production knife)"
--Shawn Houston
__
"I am still discussing issues of steels and performance at this stage."
--Cliff Stamp
__
"Cause geometry cuts, .....steel determines the level and the duration"
--Roman Landes
__
"But in general, I'm all about high performance, Ergos, safety. That's why I've been accused of 'designing in the dark' "
--Sal Glesser
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
StoneSharpEdges

Jason D. Stone on YouTube
Well, this was disappointing. The edge on the Mini-Grip wasn't what I liked, so I did a three stone full sharpening -- EZE-Lap C (220)/EZE-Lap SF (1200)/Spyerco UF rod. I am thinking that the best thing to do is draw the edge through wood or cut it off before doing a touch-up. I think this effects high-sharpness edges, and if the steel is fatigued, the edge won't be as good the next day. From here on out, I am going to try the Sal Glesser touch up with the Mini-Grip every night and do 20 PPS on the 15°/30° settings on the Sharpmaker with the UF rods. The PM2 is going to be a full sharpening edge.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gotta love living in 2019 baby, (63rc too soft on a production knife)"
--Shawn Houston
__
"I am still discussing issues of steels and performance at this stage."
--Cliff Stamp
__
"Cause geometry cuts, .....steel determines the level and the duration"
--Roman Landes
__
"But in general, I'm all about high performance, Ergos, safety. That's why I've been accused of 'designing in the dark' "
--Sal Glesser
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
StoneSharpEdges

Jason D. Stone on YouTube



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/02/2020 12:51PM by jasonstone20.
Ok, so last night, I did the 20PPS on the Spyderco UF in the Sharpmaker. Worked great, as the edge tree-topped arm hair in both directions. I think crossing the scratch pattern (every other pass) helps in not forming a burr.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gotta love living in 2019 baby, (63rc too soft on a production knife)"
--Shawn Houston
__
"I am still discussing issues of steels and performance at this stage."
--Cliff Stamp
__
"Cause geometry cuts, .....steel determines the level and the duration"
--Roman Landes
__
"But in general, I'm all about high performance, Ergos, safety. That's why I've been accused of 'designing in the dark' "
--Sal Glesser
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
StoneSharpEdges

Jason D. Stone on YouTube
I think I need to do a full sharpening on the Mini-Grip. I believe the edge has thickened up, because it will tree-top hair, shave, but when it comes to cutting cardboard it just starts tearing it more than cutting. I could just be spoiled with the PM2 distal taper, I am not sure. So off the the sharpening stones for the Mini-Grip.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Gotta love living in 2019 baby, (63rc too soft on a production knife)"
--Shawn Houston
__
"I am still discussing issues of steels and performance at this stage."
--Cliff Stamp
__
"Cause geometry cuts, .....steel determines the level and the duration"
--Roman Landes
__
"But in general, I'm all about high performance, Ergos, safety. That's why I've been accused of 'designing in the dark' "
--Sal Glesser
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
StoneSharpEdges

Jason D. Stone on YouTube
How thick.. do you have vernier calipers?

i just ordered some on amazon. hard to get any here that are accurate

----------------------------------------------------------------------
It's not Cliff, its Dr Stamp
#kebabstickcut, it's a thing - make it happen
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