Tormek a video and some comments
July 20, 2020 01:15PM
This video illustrates many of the issues with jig based systems in how they are used :

[www.youtube.com]

The color in the marker to make sure they are hitting the edge bevel, but note this doesn't tell you if you grind to the apex, you could easily not see marker and be far enough away from the apex that you are not even sharpening the knife. The way most deal with this is to over grind intentionally to get a huge burr that they can see and or feel.

This is then repeated by regrading the wheel and grinding the entire bevel again (this serves no purpose aside from aesthetics). There is more over grinding to a significant burr. Then a 4000 grit waterstone is used which is regraded with a 1000 grit stone (?) and then the knife is hit with no angle control on powered strop with compound which ends up being a mix of compound + steel. If that leather was a stone everyone would know you would want to clean it for best results, but for some reason people think strops will work ok if clogged with steel.

In the end the knife is :

-faceted, you can see multiple uneven grinds
-it barely scrape shaves arm hair

Now can the Tormek get better results - of course, but this video and so many others so clearly show that $1000 worth of equipment with little understanding of what is happening achieves little. But in general almost all of the Tormek videos have the same issue :

-they always over grind to huge burrs
-there is micro-beveling
-there is no check for the ability to slice, they just push cut
Re: Tormek a video and some comments
July 20, 2020 03:24PM
Another one :

[www.youtube.com]

-notes that if the metal is left on the wheel it would be more abrasive, the opposite is true
-marking the angle on the chisels is a good idea
-over grind to a heavy burr on the 220 stone again (on a chisel which was not damaged)
-grinds the burr off the back on the coarse stone vs the strop (?)


In comparison if you look at how chisels are sharpened by experienced guys who know what they are at with benchstones :

-faster
-less metal removal
-higher sharpness

[www3.telus.net]

On the knife :

-keeps grinding way past a burr on the coarse stone on a knife which isn't damaged
-that knife could likely have just ran on the stropping wheel
-remarks that the setting of the apex is the least precise step when in fact it is the opposite

It is a saying around here that the most people spend on tools the less skilled they are, that seems to hold true for sharpening videos. There are exceptions of course there are lots of people with all kinds of gear that have lots of skill, but I have not seen one Tormek video where the guy seemed to even understand basic sharpening and didn't do odd things.
Re: Tormek a video and some comments
July 20, 2020 04:40PM
Here is another :

[www.youtube.com]

-note the extreme angle jigging even using a computer program to calculate AND then finish by stropping

The BESS measurements on the finished knife is ~140 grams, which means no real idea, but those numbers are all over the place, I have seen people claim to get them as low as 5, this same guy has knives ~50 or so, so IF this was even a consistent measurement for him, that knife is only 1/3 as sharp as other knives. I don't see how it isn't obvious there are real issues with the consistency of sharpening, or what is being measured, or both.
Re: Tormek a video and some comments
July 21, 2020 11:11PM
I think it's worth noting a couple things from a perspective of what is done traditionally in Japanese bladesmithing.

-After forging to basic shape, the knives are ground along the primary bevel with a rotating Waterstone wheel.
-The actual sharpening has always been done on the bench stone sized water stones.

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I subscribe to a similar view regarding the Tormek....

I don't see it as being particularly well suited to sharpening, though it can be done obviously.
I also don't find rough grinding to be a job well suited to bench stones, though it can also be done if you have the time/effort/skill and suitable coarse stones.
me2
Re: Tormek a video and some comments
July 22, 2020 02:04AM
Man I'd be peeved if I got a Strider back looking like that.

That seems like a lot of effort on that Mora for a mediocre edge. Isn't the point of those edge grinds to be easier to sharpen from a sense of angle control?
Re: Tormek a video and some comments
July 22, 2020 02:21AM
Quote
me2

That seems like a lot of effort on that Mora for a mediocre edge. Isn't the point of those edge grinds to be easier to sharpen from a sense of angle control?

The point of those grinds is to save money, hence why they are used on machetes, a single bevel, very wide. Everything else is myth/magic where people are looking to explain something. This is common :

[www.youtube.com]

However the actual makers of the knives don't even do that, they come with a micro-bevel. The sharpen on the flat thing is a North American invention. That being said the Tormek is an odd choice for that knife to be sharpened unless you had a lot of edge damage.
cKc
Re: Tormek a video and some comments
July 22, 2020 10:09AM
Quote
CliffStamp


However the actual makers of the knives don't even do that, they come with a micro-bevel. The sharpen on the flat thing is a North American invention. That being said the Tormek is an odd choice for that knife to be sharpened unless you had a lot of edge damage.

its prob more a case of , once you have a tormek, why do it any other way. but there was very poor angle control following the apex line, and the knife doesn't have 1 fixed edge angle.. gets thicker towards the tip. not suitable for a tormek

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It's not Cliff, its Dr Stamp
#kebabstickcut, it's a thing - make it happen
me2
Re: Tormek a video and some comments
July 22, 2020 10:36AM
I like the simplicity of those types of blades, but the one I had didn't cut very well. In the worst example of forn over function I can think of, Bush Monkey knives made a Bowie/clip point version I really liked the look of, but couldn't bring myself to buy. I hate myself a little for wanting to either get one or make one in a 5" blade version. His was a 7" blade 1.25" wide or so.
Re: Tormek a video and some comments
July 23, 2020 12:56AM
I really loved the look of his blades too Me2...even if they were 3/16ths scandi ground blades.

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Always in search of a good choppa'
me2
Re: Tormek a video and some comments
July 23, 2020 11:26AM
I still toy with the notion of making one from 3/32" steel of some sort. Its good to know I'm not the only one who thought they at least looked good.
Re: Tormek a video and some comments
July 24, 2020 12:56AM
They had a neat aesthetic, but i could of course never get over the performance issue.

_______________________________________________________________________________________________

Always in search of a good choppa'
me2
Re: Tormek a video and some comments
July 25, 2020 01:31AM
I want to like them for the simplicity. However I could not get over the makers attitude and the performance of the thicker knives. Thinner blades in the 3/32" to 1/8" would have worked well enough. The price was a bit high too.
Re: Tormek a video and some comments
July 25, 2020 01:03PM
I do remember them being pricey for what they were. And there was some controversy around the maker? I can't remember it though.

_______________________________________________________________________________________________

Always in search of a good choppa'
me2
Re: Tormek a video and some comments
July 25, 2020 08:36PM
His notions on heat treating were as one dimensional as his notions on geometry, as demonstrated by his exclusive use of Scandi grinding and heat treating all blades to the same hardness range. Nothing g wrong with either until you go on the makers forum and tell them all they made it too complicated. In some cases, he wasn't wrong.
cKc
Re: Tormek a video and some comments
July 25, 2020 09:10PM
the real question is.. did he use a tormek? grinning smiley

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It's not Cliff, its Dr Stamp
#kebabstickcut, it's a thing - make it happen
me2
Re: Tormek a video and some comments
July 26, 2020 12:10PM
Nope